- 02-20-2003, 08:50 PM
Testosterone is the primary substrate used in the male body for the synthesis of estrogen ,the principal female sex hormone . Although the presence of estrogen may seem unusual in men ,it is structrually very similiar to Test .With a slight alteration by the enzyme aromatase ,estrogen is produced in the male body . Aromatase takes place in various regions of the body including the liver,testes,and the central nervous sytem , in the context of the average healthy male the amount of estrogen is not very severe ,and may even be beneficial in terms of cholestrol values.
In larger amounts however it does have some rather unwanted side effects including: water retention,female breast tissue development (gynecomastia) ,and increased body fat accumulation .For these reasons many focus on minimizing the buildup of estrogen with aromatase inhibitors such as Armidex or Cytadren,or anti-estrogens such as clomid or Nolvadex , We must not however be led into thinking that estrogen serves no benefit ,as it is actually a desirable hormone in many regards .Athletes have known for years that estogenic steroids are the best mass builders ,but it is only recently that they are realizing why .The reasons go beyond simple size,weight, and strength increases that one would attritribute to estrogen-related water retention ,with this hormone actually having a direct effecton the process of anabolism,Including glucose utilization, growth hormone secretion and androgen receptor proliferation.So what does all this mean to the bodybuilder , It calls for a cautious approach to the use of estrogen maintenance drugs if mass is the goal .Obviously there is a clear need for these drugs , but if none of the related problems have presented themselves , added estrogen may indeed be helping an athlete to achieve certain goals
ref: Anabolics 2002 Teekahty fitnessgeared.com
- 02-20-2003, 09:03 PM
02-21-2003, 12:33 AM
yeah i agree , if mass is the goal , estrogen will be very useful . thats why unnecessary use of estrogen blockers etc shudnt be used . some bloat should be welcome .
but this is a good time to bring up one fact to those who say u can cut using any steroid , estrogen is very anabolic to adipose tissue , so a steroid which is aromatising , will not help to ur goal of losing far , so tren , eq , winny etc are best for cutting .... dont even give us the talk of test enanthate is best for cutting too . .
02-21-2003, 11:09 PM
Very hard for most to understand that estrogen can be our freind. Especially while bulking.
02-21-2003, 11:50 PM
What is the point of bloat? Come on now. The idea that estrogen gives additional muscle gains is a complete falicy in my opinion. It DOES help lubricate joints, and keep BP in check a bit during a cycle however. Additional WEIGHT is gained during the cycle..in water weight, but it is quickly lost once you end the cycle. My leanest gaining cycle was test and fina with femura. I did have issues with joint pain and minor injuries during that cycle. I also had BP jack thru the roof..to levels I was concerned with. In researching, I found I was probably running femura too high. My next cycle I ran no anti es during the cycle and bloated to hell, but had no nagging injuries, and joint strength was great, and BP stayed relativly decent.
Not using anti-es for the above reasons, I can understand, expecting greater REAL muscle gains (not just weight) to me..is unrealistic
02-22-2003, 10:40 AM
The reasons go beyond simple size,weight, and strength increases that one would attritribute to estrogen-related water retention ,with this hormone actually having a direct effecton the process of anabolism,Including glucose utilization, growth hormone secretion and androgen receptor proliferation. and i got a long winded description to all this as well but I agree the bloat does suck but estrogen will help with mass besides bloat
02-22-2003, 08:27 PM
The point IMO is bloat adds strength. It helps you push more weight and will help increase muscle mass. It's good that water retention is lost post cycle. Another reason not to use so many anti-e's during. Bloat does suck as far as looking like a balloon. Thats why during cutting cycles the majority of drugs used are those that do not cause so much water retention and/or anti-e's are used. And when your bulking utilizing bloat for strength (as well as the reasons teekahty pointed out) with test and dbol is the best thing IMO.
Estrogen does not lubricate joints. Androgens are anti-inflamatory in nature. Deca seems to be the best at this and it does not aromatize that much at all. It may be from it's progestogenic activities. I really don't know. But if it were estrogen that "lubed" joints than it would seem test and dbol would be much more effective in doing so than nandrolone.
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