Pure Androgens -- The Reference Point Thread

Strateg0s

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In response to the continual flood of questions asked around this board, I am starting this thread to serve as a one-stop quick reference for those who are planning to use any of the pure androgens, namely 3-alpha, M5AA, 5AA-cyp, or MDHT - a feedback magnet. I realize that there are a number of journals already available, but I don't have the time to bring together all of that information if I had to do it all by myself. If everyone would contribute their own experiences here, others will be able to benefit greatly by being able to quickly survey the experiences of many, and they can take into consideration the up-to-date discussion of the consensus reached from these contributions, including recommendations. I will maintain a summary of this information in the first post.

The form of response from contributors which would be most helpful for the compilation of valuable information would be something like what follows (but please PM me if you have suggestions for improving this). If you've done a cycle, I implore you, out of gratitude for anything you've learned here at AnabolicsMinds to do everyone else a favor, by spending five minutes to convey what happened during your cycle.

Pure Androgens Questionnaire
0. Which pure androgen are you talking about?
1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting it?
2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential?
3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people?
4. At what dose of it did you realize the best results?
5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects?
6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains?
7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative?
8. For how long did you run it, and at what dose?
9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing it?
10. If you were running it as part of a stack, what else did you use?
11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they?
12. Evaluate the role of it in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to the pure androgen, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise?
13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what?
14. If you've also used an extremely androgenic AAS, which one, and how much do you think it would take to give comparable results to those you got from the legal androgen? Or is there just no comparison?
(If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it)

If this thread gets a lot of contributions and traffic in the coming weeks and months, it should prove very helpful. Due to the impending ban, I encourage you to post even early impressions and results, and these can be updated as you go. Contributors can edit and re-edit their original post as they learn more, and it would be especially helpful if they add information from later cycles.

If you have used any of the following, please post your experience in the appropriate Reference Point Thread: 1-Test/4-AD combo, M1T, Superdrol, Anadrol, 1-AD, Test, M1,4ADD, D-Bol, M4OHN, M-dien, Anavar, or Deca.
 
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Strateg0s

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Rogue Drone has concluded "there's no longer any question in my mind which I'll continue stocking up on, 3-alpha. 100-150mgs ED of 3-alpha dermal is unquestionably a better hardening and strength stack add than the other two for me. On the negative side, 3-alpha is also a lot more androgenic, it would be a hair stripper and prostate sweller for a substantial percentage of users, beware." And if I remember correctly, according to BigBeteFox, 80mg M5AA daily is roughly equivalent to 400mg 5AA-cyp weekly. It would be helpful for other people who have a lot of experience under their belt to make other such comparisons.
 

Cardinal

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0. M5AA
1. 180lb Total Weight, 33.5" waist, 6'2"
2. Nowhere near genetic potential
3. Less than average amount anabolics needed.
4. Highest dose taken, 100mg/D
5. Never took high enough dose to warrant stopping.
6. Insufficient Dose: < 40mg/D
7. Sides
Modest Acne
Increased aggressive thoughts
Mental Focus
Significant strength accretion/CNS stimulation
Shedding of hair
8. 4 weeks, 40-100mg/ED
9. Seemed to limit additional weight/fat gain to some extent
10. M1T, 1-T, 4AD
11. Too many to briefly list. See log.
12. Significant contributor to strength gains in weeks 3-5
13. 24, endo Real Power Can't Be Given
 
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excalibur

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0 m5aa
1 100 kg total weight (first cycle) 98 kg total weight (second cycle) 100 kg weight (third cycle with m1t) I am 1.71 cm high
2 not close
3 thats hard to say since I only have done four cycles...(Im figuring it out)
4 over 60mg ed
5 never took high enough dose
6 < 30mg ed
7 -
negative: more chest hair and darker colour of chest hair (Im turning in to a monkey), more beard (face hair) also darker
positive: mental focus, Significant strength accretion/CNS stimulation, harder and more defined muscles Libido got way upp from day one

8 4 weeks eatch time
first cycle was with a TLKD on a calori defict cycle.. startet at 20mg a day 1 hour befor workout and upped the dose by 10mg eatch week to 50 last week...
In most excersises i managed to increse the weights even thou i was dieting :)
second cycle (eating about 500kcal above maintance) i startet to spread the dose throu the day with 40mg before workout (am) and 20 mg 3-4 hours later.. non workout days spread it in thre doses throu the day.
That realy made a difrence in mental focus and feeling well all day..
Third cycle I used it with m1t (at 5mg week 1 7,5mg week 2 10 mg week 3 and 12.5mg for 2 days then back to 10mg week 4.. becourse of back cramps of m1t) and i used 40mg m5aa before workout 20mg 3-4 hour later and then 20mg 3-4 hour later at a total of 80 mg ed
9 95 kg (first cycle) 100kg second cycle and 105 kg third cycle
10 in cycle nr 3 i ran it with m1t
11 food, whey protein, multi vit/min
12 first cycle all strenght gains where from m5aa.. second cycle the same.. third cycle strenght gains from m5aa and wheightgain from m1t

13 age 27 I am not skinny nor fatt but muscular (dont know whitc that is ecto, endo, meso )

Sidenote: after 4 weeks of m5aa i started pct with EC for 3-4 weeks and the CNS stimulations was no where near what i got from m5aa (used 75mg E and 600m C a day) so that was a big downtrip

Hope this helps!
 

glenihan

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0. Which pure androgen are you talking about? m5aa
1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting it? 194lbs 9% bf
2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential? fairly close i'm 5'8 and given 8-9% bf i'd say 200ish is my natural potential
3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people? average
4. At what dose of it did you realize the best results? 100mg in divided doses (30 upon waking, 50 pre wo, 20 later)
5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects? didn't notice any negative sides
6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains? n/a
7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative? noticed it definitely had a leaning out effect
8. For how long did you run it, and at what dose? 5 weeks 100mg a day
9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing it? 205 9%
10. If you were running it as part of a stack, what else did you use? i was running it with a 1-test trans (300mg a day) and 4-ad trans (200mg a day)
11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they? protein, creatine mono, glutamine (however i run those basically year round)
12. Evaluate the role of it in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to the pure androgen, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise? i don't attribute any of the weight gain really, i think it helped in making me stronger, definitely hardened me up and leaned me out
13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what? 21, meso
14. If you've also used an extremely androgenic AAS, which one, and how much do you think it would take to give comparable results to those you got from the legal androgen? Or is there just no comparison? can't think of a comparison that i can comment on
 
RobInKuwait

RobInKuwait

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Pure Androgens Questionnaire
0. Which pure androgen are you talking about? MDHT
1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting it? 13% 253 lbs
2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential? far from it
3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people? average
4. At what dose of it did you realize the best results? only done 75mg so far
5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects? n/a
6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains? n/a
7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative? Seriously increased libido and sexual benefits, hardening and loss of water weight, increased focus (similar to caffeine)
8. For how long did you run it, and at what dose? 75 mg for a week and a half so far, planning on 6 weeks, will edit at the end.
9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing it? no change
10. If you were running it as part of a stack, what else did you use? 1000 mg 1 Test Cyp EW; 1500 mg 4ad Cyp EW
11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they? Saw palmetto for the prostate
12. Evaluate the role of it in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to the pure androgen, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise? Will answer once completed
13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what? 25, meso-endo
14. If you've also used an extremely androgenic AAS, which one, and how much do you think it would take to give comparable results to those you got from the legal androgen? Or is there just no comparison? M5AA, but thats legal too. Actually the effects were pretty different tho. More pleasant and less aggressive.

(If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it)
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21134
 

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