1-t/4ad Transdermal Question

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    1-t/4ad Transdermal Question


    I am about to make a batch and had this question.

    Do I have to make a transdermal for 1-t and a seperate one for 4ad, or can I combine them and make one transdermal?

    Thanks

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    You can do either. My advise would be to do them separately, so you can adjust your dosages if needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathead1987
    You can do either. My advise would be to do them separately, so you can adjust your dosages if needed.
    Thanks. It would make more sense to split them up.

    One more question. I will be doing 300mg of 1-T and 400mg of 4ad. First stack, here are my specs.

    Height:5'7''|Weight:240lbs|BF: 13%|Age:36|Training Exp:14 years

    Have all of my PCT stuff on hand already.

    You opinion is welcome.
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    Looks to me like a good 1st stack.

    I would normally advise ~200/300 1T/4AD for a 1st cycle, but as you are so heavy, with a low BF, I think those dosages are about roght for you.

    How long are you planning on running it? I would advise 6-8 weeks. You may also consider adding some M5AA in there, maybe weeks 1-2 and 5-8. Or even all the way through. about 60mg a day is a good start, 30mg pre workout, and a further 3 10mg doses spread out. It should give you a bit of a strength kickstart, and reduce the bloat from the 4ad.

    A good cycle may look like:

    weeks 1-8 300mg 1T
    weeks 1-8 400mg 4AD
    weeks 1-4 60mg M5AA a day
    weeks 5-8 100+(if you want)mg M5AA a day
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    Yeah, I think dosages look good for a big dude. For a first cycle, keeping them separate is also a good idea. I like mixing together if you know exactly what ratio works for you best. It's a little more convenient for me. But again, until you do a couple of cycles and know exactly what works keep them separate to allow dosing flexibility.


    dd
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    Thanks, appreciate the input.

    Was thinking about a 4wk on/4off cycle since this is my first. Although I've been reading that 6wks isn't bad either.

    You're thinking 8 weeks?
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    My vote would be six. 1-test/4ad td take 2+ weeks to kick in for many people. 4 weeks would only give you, maybe, 2 weeks of cycle with the androgens fully kicked in. 8 may be OK, but being the first cycle, I think you would like to see how this stuff works for you, evaluate sides, and your ability to recover during PCT. Therefore, six would be a good balance for this cycle. If everthing goes well, do an eight weeker next time. jmho

    dd
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    Thanks dd and meathead.

    I was given a range before of 200-300mg 1T 300-400mg 4ad and thought that more was better, but I rather err on the side of caution and go with the 200mg 1T/300mg 4ad dosage that you recommended and recaculating my formula for a 6wk on/off cycle

    I read up on the M5AA, thanks for that tip. Was concerned about the bloat from 4ad, and this will help greatly.

    BTW, Happy Thanksgiving!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUREADY4ME
    I read up on the M5AA, thanks for that tip. Was concerned about the bloat from 4ad, and this will help greatly.
    Consider 4oht to use in place of M5AA. Two good reasons for this change:
    1) M5AA is DHT derivative, hence hard on prostate and hair. You are not very young and you should be careful on this
    2) Its methylated, that is not easy on the liver too.

    4OHT makes a perfect stack with 1T/4AD combo. Dose it at about half the 4ad and it will prevent bloating too much (and the risk of gyno).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syr
    Consider 4oht to use in place of M5AA. Two good reasons for this change:
    1) M5AA is DHT derivative, hence hard on prostate and hair. You are not very young and you should be careful on this
    2) Its methylated, that is not easy on the liver too.

    4OHT makes a perfect stack with 1T/4AD combo. Dose it at about half the 4ad and it will prevent bloating too much (and the risk of gyno).
    Now I'm starting to get a little confused.

    Question:
    I just finished reading StrategOs article and it lists 4OHT as an alternative to 4AD. So why even add 4AD when I can replace it?

    He also goes on to say this:

    Option B) “THE I CAN’T AFFORD TO SPEND MUCH MONEY, I’VE GOT TONS OF FREE TIME, OR I’M JUST A CHEAP BASTARD? CYCLE
    Opt for some form of 1-test + 4OHT or 1,4ADD. Using 4OHT or 1,4ADD may however take you out of the very cheap bastard category. 4AD is really not that bad, so it is a question of how cheap you are compared to how cautious you are about hair loss or how sensitive you might be to gyno or other estrogen related side effects. Whether you are using transdermal or otherwise, a 1:2:1 ratio of 1-test:4AD:4OHT would be a good compromise and suit you well. Shift the ratio towards being heavy on the 4OHT the more you want to reduce side effects. For a transdermal cycle, for instance, you could start by running (daily) 150 mg 1-test + 300mg 4AD + 150mg 4OHT.
    Given this 1:2:1 ratio, here's my new stack:

    weeks 1-6 150mg 1T
    weeks 1-6 300mg 4AD
    weeks 1-6 150mg 4OHT


    In the same article he says you can't go wrong with a 2:3 ratio of 1T/4ad which I had previously.

    Can anybody help clear this up?

    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUREADY4ME
    Now I'm starting to get a little confused.

    Question:
    I just finished reading StrategOs article and it lists 4OHT as an alternative to 4AD. So why even add 4AD when I can replace it?

    He also goes on to say this:


    Given this 1:2:1 ratio, here's my new stack:

    weeks 1-6 150mg 1T
    weeks 1-6 300mg 4AD
    weeks 1-6 150mg 4OHT


    In the same article he says you can't go wrong with a 2:3 ratio of 1T/4ad which I had previously.

    Can anybody help clear this up?

    Thanks
    Im my opinion the above stack is safer for you and will not bloat you alot (you can adjust 1Test and 4oht amounts on the fly if u use separate gels)
    I'm not StrategOs (and he is much more knowledgable than me ).

    People has done and liked all of the 3 following cycles:
    -1Test/4AD, both trans and pinned. Amount of water depends on the ratio and the amount of 4ad. There is definitely a risk of gyno.
    -1Test/4AD/pure andros (M5aa, 5aa cyp, 3aa trans) Andros helps strenght, counter bloat.
    -1Test/4AD/4OHT. 4oht counters bloat and estrogens.

    Its up to you to find what would be the best for u. I told you the reasons why I suggested to add 4oht to your cycle.
    4oht is expensive compared to the other stuff and this makes less people trying it.
    You would need a huge amount of 4oht to replace 4ad entirely (around 600-800mg). There has been one guy who did 4oht alone at such high doses.
    There is also some people who ran 4AD/4OHT. And that makes sense too if you know your goals. PH is not an exact science, bro.

    You may want to read the old thread i started when i was planning my trans cycle:
    My thoughts about a 4AD/4OHT cycle
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    Most of the info that I was using was from the BB.com faq by pouge (it's stickied here as well)

    I'm going back to the drawing board and read all of the associated links with
    "Looking Back: An Untimely Guide to Legal Steroids by StrategOs" to get a better understanding on all of this new info.

    Thanks again for all who responded, and will post what route I'm going to take.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syr
    Im my opinion the above stack is safer for you and will not bloat you alot (you can adjust 1Test and 4oht amounts on the fly if u use separate gels)
    I'm not StrategOs (and he is much more knowledgable than me ).

    People has done and liked all of the 3 following cycles:
    -1Test/4AD, both trans and pinned. Amount of water depends on the ratio and the amount of 4ad. There is definitely a risk of gyno.
    -1Test/4AD/pure andros (M5aa, 5aa cyp, 3aa trans) Andros helps strenght, counter bloat.
    -1Test/4AD/4OHT. 4oht counters bloat and estrogens.

    Its up to you to find what would be the best for u. I told you the reasons why I suggested to add 4oht to your cycle.
    4oht is expensive compared to the other stuff and this makes less people trying it.
    You would need a huge amount of 4oht to replace 4ad entirely (around 600-800mg). There has been one guy who did 4oht alone at such high doses.
    There is also some people who ran 4AD/4OHT. And that makes sense too if you know your goals. PH is not an exact science, bro.

    You may want to read the old thread i started when i was planning my trans cycle:
    My thoughts about a 4AD/4OHT cycle
    Just saw this as I was typing my last post. Helps alot.

    1Test/4AD/4OHT is starting to look like the right choice. 4OHT is high but you can't put a price on peace of mind.

    Will check it out, and thanks again
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    it may be expensive, but as you only need ~150mg a day if running it with 1T/4AD it isnt too bad.
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    It begins...........


    My 4OHT came in last night.

    Made the 1T:4AD:4OHT trans (seperate batches of each) using 150mg:300mg:150mg/day (half in the morning/half in the evening)

    Used Phlojel as the transdermal with some ethyl alcohol to dissolve the powder into a paste and made two 60ml syringes each (had to adjust the ethyl for the 4OHT that stuff is tough to work with)

    Starting stats Weight:240lbs|BF:13%

    Will keep you posted
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUREADY4ME
    My 4OHT came in last night.

    Made the 1T:4AD:4OHT trans (seperate batches of each) using 150mg:300mg:150mg/day (half in the morning/half in the evening)

    Used Phlojel as the transdermal with some ethyl alcohol to dissolve the powder into a paste and made two 60ml syringes each (had to adjust the ethyl for the 4OHT that stuff is tough to work with)

    Starting stats Weight:240lbs|BF:13%

    Will keep you posted
    It seems this cycle is becoming very popular

    Did you make 3 separate bottles?
    You may need to adjust the ratio if you feel too much bloat.
    Always have nolva on hand.
    And consider also Formestane or Letro if you will need to reduce the water.

    Good luck!
    Please keep us updated also on the phlojel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syr
    It seems this cycle is becoming very popular

    Did you make 3 separate bottles?
    You may need to adjust the ratio if you feel too much bloat.
    Always have nolva on hand.
    And consider also Formestane or Letro if you will need to reduce the water.

    Good luck!
    Please keep us updated also on the phlojel.
    Made two batches of each. Enough to fill two 60ml syringes for a 6 week cycle.

    Here's how I broke down the formula for mixing.

    1T@75mg/ml 120ml total
    9gms of 1T + 10ml ethyl + 101gms Phlojel

    *4AD@139mg/ml 130ml total
    18gms of 4AD + 20ml ethyl + 92gms Phlojel

    *4OHT@69mg/ml 130ml total
    9gms of 4OHT + 20ml ethyl + 101gms Phlojel

    *=Had to make adjustments

    This is my first time homebrewing, so I don't have anything else to reference it to. Phlojel is THICK. It has a 1:1 ratio so 1ml = 1gm. I bought the 450gm jar.

    Since I'm using syringes so I can properly measure the "servings". I first used ethyl to make a paste of each powder.

    1T was easy to work with.

    4AD was a little more troublesome. I realized I had not account for enough Phlojel in the inital mix and it was extremely stiff added more Phlojel to compensate and went over by 10gms

    For some reason, I had to use extra ethyl for the 4OHT in order to get it to a nice paste (It turned out a bit runny compared to the other two).

    Then I worked in the Phlojel a little at a time to ensure that it was mixed well. Then I fed the final mixture into the rear of each syringe.

    Did my first app this morning 1.5 hours before my quad/calves and I felt warmer than I usually do and sweated more.

    Now I find myself eating more than I usually do.

    Is this common, or is it just in my head?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUREADY4ME
    Now I find myself eating more than I usually do.

    Is this common, or is it just in my head?
    Starting from second day, I'm also experiencing an appetite increase
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUREADY4ME
    Made two batches of each. Enough to fill two 60ml syringes for a 6 week cycle.

    Here's how I broke down the formula for mixing.

    1T@75mg/ml 120ml total
    9gms of 1T + 10ml ethyl + 101gms Phlojel

    *4AD@139mg/ml 130ml total
    18gms of 4AD + 20ml ethyl + 92gms Phlojel

    *4OHT@69mg/ml 130ml total
    9gms of 4OHT + 20ml ethyl + 101gms Phlojel

    *=Had to make adjustments

    This is my first time homebrewing, so I don't have anything else to reference it to. Phlojel is THICK. It has a 1:1 ratio so 1ml = 1gm. I bought the 450gm jar.

    Since I'm using syringes so I can properly measure the "servings". I first used ethyl to make a paste of each powder.

    1T was easy to work with.

    4AD was a little more troublesome. I realized I had not account for enough Phlojel in the inital mix and it was extremely stiff added more Phlojel to compensate and went over by 10gms

    For some reason, I had to use extra ethyl for the 4OHT in order to get it to a nice paste (It turned out a bit runny compared to the other two).

    Then I worked in the Phlojel a little at a time to ensure that it was mixed well. Then I fed the final mixture into the rear of each syringe.

    Did my first app this morning 1.5 hours before my quad/calves and I felt warmer than I usually do and sweated more.

    Now I find myself eating more than I usually do.

    Is this common, or is it just in my head?
    Why dont you start a log. I'm sure a lot of people would like to hear how the cycle goes especially since your using phlojel. Not many logs on it.

    Good Luck.
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    Log begins


    Quote Originally Posted by BAD_MO_FO
    Why dont you start a log. I'm sure a lot of people would like to hear how the cycle goes especially since your using phlojel. Not many logs on it.

    Good Luck.
    Guess I'll do it here then

    Day #1

    Workout this morning:
    QUADS
    Step Ups (dumbells)- warmup 2x10@35lbs, 3x8@80lb
    Leg Xtensions-3x10@180lbs
    Hack Squats-3x10@200lbs

    CALVES
    Seated raises warmup 2x10@90lbs, 3x8@180 (slow)
    Standing raises 3x100@300lbs (slow)
    Donkey raises 3x10@350lbs (slow)

    Didn't have time for HIIT cardio, late for work.

    Got home and did second app of the trans. Haven't experience any itching with the 1T yet. Places where apply trans (top of feet and collarbone) get warm after 30min and stay like that for 4-5 hours

    Ate clean today.

    Walked with girlfriend for 20min just got home.

    Not sleepy, gonna lay down awhile.
    Last edited by RUREADY4ME; 12-01-2004 at 05:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAD_MO_FO
    Why dont you start a log. I'm sure a lot of people would like to hear how the cycle goes especially since your using phlojel. Not many logs on it.
    Yeah! I would like to read the log as well
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    Day #2


    Morning,

    Need to get a new scale. weighed myself last night and was 233lbs this morning 239.6lbs

    Woke up, did my morning multi/ECY/zinc w/ 1tbs of Flax

    Preworkout and post workout shake: 30gms whey protien/15gms PowerAde (gatorade clone)/10gms glutamine

    Today is Hams/Shoulders/HIIT day
    HAMS
    Lying Leg Curls: 2x12@100 (warm up), 3x8@150 (slow)
    Seated Leg Curls: 3x8@180 (slow)
    Standing Leg Curls: 3x8@60 (slow)

    SHOULDERS
    Seated Db Millitary Press: 2x12@50 (warm up), 3x8@90
    Superset of Front and Side Db raises: 3x10@20

    (Note: If my workout weights seem a bit light, I change it every month and I just started a new one)

    HIIT:
    10min on Stairmaster
    1 min warmup
    9 intervals: 25sec high 35sec low

    Ate clean (heavy day)

    I find it hard to go to sleep still. Full of energy!
    Last edited by RUREADY4ME; 12-01-2004 at 10:15 PM.
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    Glad to see you are keeping a log. By the way, did you weigh yourself before you started? If so, how much? Make sure to switch areas with the phlojel often.
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    Day #3


    Weight: 240.4lbs

    Off day

    eating clean (light day)
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    Will continue in the Cycle Info fourm


    I have copied my first three days of this cycle into this thread My 1T/4AD/4OHT Phlojel Trans Cycle

    And will continue to log my progress.
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