The pros

[believer87]

One main question fellas and then two side bars.

So the pros obviously do a good amount of gear, correct? I compare Arnold Back in the late 70s and then Cutler, Coleman and Heath of today. Obviously BB has evolved into the look it is today (in my opinion the look Arnold had back then was ideal and great.) in order to have Arnold's body as I am 6"3 opposed to the body of Heath or cutler would I have to use a crazy amount of gear or is it possible with my clean diet and dedication,with a decent amount of gear. (I use 1000mg of test per week and that's it as of now) I'm 25 and fluctuate between 225 and 265.
Also is it pointless to try and have the look of the cutlets if not intending to compete.? I'm on the fence and would live to compete but if its not going to be possible without running gear out the butt and for an extended period idk.
Side bar
Peptides are they better with gear or ok ran solo
And side bar two?
Well I can't really remember.. Lol lots of typos guys so please overlook that and try and answer my question the best that you can..
Oh side bar I remember:
If someone competed today with Arnold's body would they win? Or has the game changed that much?

 

[believer87]

One more thing? Do pros mess with PH's or just the real deal?

 

[madmadmax]

One more thing? Do pros mess with PH's or just the real deal?

Arnold never revealed what gear he used so people can only prod and guess, some say he used cadaver HGH some say he had calf implants and some say he just did huge amounts of AAS.

 

[believer87]

@madmadmax.. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post, (here it comes) BUT can you or anyone else just give me a roughly decent reply as my questions are genuine and serious. Obviously no one is going to know what guys use exactly unless they are in the room pinning with. I wasn't asking what they take.. And please respond to the entire thread..

 

[heavylifter33]

wall of text questions........

Skimmed through your post but i'll give my 2 cents as a competitor and a user.

Some people use AAS and compete locally or at semi-pro shows and are fine with it while having a decent amount of success. If you want to go pro you'll have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on gear/peptides. Years of cycling. Years of hard work. Years of having not much of a life outside your training.

You're asking us what you should do about your body, that seems a bit stupid. Do what you think is best or what feels right. If being shredded sounds good, then get shredded and stay there. Who cares if you compete or not? If you can justify the hard work and money spent then do it. Why would you ever let someone else tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your body.

As far as peptides go, sure you can run them solo if you want... but i'd be running hgh non-stop if you want to get big. Then you can either cycle AAS or blast and cruise. Up to you.

 

[madmadmax]

@madmadmax.. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post, (here it comes) BUT can you or anyone else just give me a roughly decent reply as my questions are genuine and serious. Obviously no one is going to know what guys use exactly unless they are in the room pinning with. I wasn't asking what they take.. And please respond to the entire thread..

I am going to side with Rhadam on this one, who cares if you are mr. olympia or not look at the roid guts of modern bodybuilders and think if that's how YOU want to look. You don't get a lot of money from competitions anyway so you could get sponsors and pay yourself while looking like Arnold, which is the physique most of us are aiming for.

Even though even arnold doesn't have a perfect physique, no point in getting into something unless you think you can do it better. Also some people do a HIIT EOD and are shredded year round with little to no medications, it's just a lifestyle.

 

[Eric160]

no the pros dont use ph just real gear

 

[believer87]

@rahdam and madmadmax.. Thanks for your honesty.. I've cycled twice before my test cycle but I was a pro athlete in another sport before this so I guess when I see guys who are competing that sparks something that makes me want to compete but what's the point in competing if your not going to try and be the best is my dilemma. Or the greatest? Shoot for the moon and fall among th

 

[Eric160]

@rahdam and madmadmax.. Thanks for your honesty.. I've cycled twice before my test cycle but I was a pro athlete in another sport before this so I guess when I see guys who are competing that sparks something that makes me want to compete but what's the point in competing if your not going to try and be the best is my dilemma. Or the greatest? Shoot for the moon and fall among th

i agree completely but the risks to become the greatest are unlike any other sport health wise. u can eff urself up for life and if u fall short of ur goal u just have to ask urself if its still worth it

 

[believer87]

@eric160...

That last thread was huge.. That one hit me at home.. That is the truth.. And I'm sure the pros have docs supervising them which is more $$$ which yeah I don't have so.. Yeah very clear in my goals now.. Look fit, live the healthy fit lifestyle and maybe hit up a couple amateur shows maybe try and win a couple trophys and smile haha.. You guys on this board have it right. Glad I'm a member..
Bless all

 

[Eric160]

yess! they are ALL heavily doctor supervised. im a super competitive person in nature and even though it kills me not to be the biggest baddest mofo in the gym u have to realize that may not be the healtiest choice. also i have no idea what ur genetics are like ut bodybuilding is very dependant on genes and no matter how hard u work u cant alway compete with those who are genetically supirior

 

[MattPorter]

Bodybuilding is about god given genetics. Gear is crucial of course, but the top guys are essentially 'meant to be' bodybuilders.

You cant just say -- if I take xx amount of gear that so and so pro does I will look like him....I hope you did not think such a thing but I got that impression from your quote here --- "I am 6"3 opposed to the body of Heath or cutler would I have to use a crazy amount of gear or is it possible with my clean diet and dedication,with a decent amount of gear."

I just coached a competitor in Britain this weekend and he earned pro status.....and I knew EXACTLY what he took and its not much compared to regular gym goers this day and age. I can say your taking over 2 x's as much testosterone he was.....

The point is -- the very elite guys have the genes to do this. It would be VERY CLEAR very early if you had the 'goods" or not to make serious impact.

Of course there are the dogged hard workers with mediocre genetics that train like animals, eat perfect nutrition, take quality hormones, and play the time game and fight their way to pro status -- but quickly find out they wont be able to do much....

Read this --- the delusions and reality of hormone cycling

-Matt

 

[believer87]

Good post there Matt.. Again honesty is the key.. I will admit that I was a genetic freak in the sport I was in.. But I can also admit when it comes to the sport of bodybuilding I don't know what good genetics look like. I gain very easily, very lean, and I can get away with a sub par diet and do well. But let me ask you a question about Heath.. He has good genetics? I mean I watched him play basketball for Denver and he was a wet towel running around. Granted whatever he does obviously works for him and his nick name was the gift, but I'm obviously not in touch with the sport enough to say what good genetics are. I am 6"3 I sat at 235 when I was 16 and just increased from there. Where I fall stray is I don't eat enough at times.. I have great confusion from time to time on the look I need and or want.. So please educate me in the sport

 

[yoshi5674]

I'm 37, I've followed the sport (Bodybuilding) since I first saw Conan the Barbarian. I think I was in 4th grade. Anyways, I have watched guys like Haney, Nasser, and Priest fade out as guys like Yates, and Coleman took over with their "Bulk". I thought guys were achieving that kind of muscle in a few years. I had seen them at their peak, not following them from the start of their careers. I remember when I'd see a pic of Cutler and wonder why he was even in a magazine. That was almost 20 years ago. I cant' imagine having to put my body through that for that long. Hell, I'm still trying to get to "size" so i can refine/sculpt. If you wanna be a pro, do it. But, realize its a hard long road. I think Warren Branch got started later in life, he's doin it!

 

[believer87]

Also my decision to use the mg of test using was based on the fact I had ran prop before and that was great and all and I was shredded at 225-230 but I want to be bigger so I increased caloric intake to 4,500 with 500mg and wasn't seeing the growth.. I went to 1000mg and my appetite went even higher.. To 5,500cals.. (Basically I was having trouble putting down 4,500) I want to get to 310... Good or bad reasoning sure a lot of people can say what they will but I'm just being honest.

 

[believer87]

@yoshi.. I like that attitude.. I grew up a little tall lanky kid who just ran around looking awkward I was 6 feet by 12 so u could imagine what that looked like..I started to fill out in high school when we had to lift weights for sports. I've always been motivated to prove the masses wrong.. Your post is very positive an very true.. I can only imagine what they put their bodies through but how does someone get started.. When clearly these guys are sponsored and all. These are not dumb questions guys I hope.. I'm just from another sport trying to transition.. I hope you guys can understand that

 

[yoshi5674]

Yeah, same here. I was 6'2" and didnt get to 165lbs until my junior yr. But, the best thing happened, I picked up Arnolds' Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding. I gained so much knowledge from that and put on some good mass for my senior yr. But, I got Mono and lost everything, took me down to 145lbs. Took me about 2 yrs to recover from that totally. When I was 21 I was in the gym about 6 days a week, for 2-3 hours. I was kickin ass. The owner of the gym wanted to know if I wanted him to sponsor me. That, was my chance. I said no because I still had the "skinny guy" complex. He had connections, and I regret that big time. So, if you wanna get started, you can ask for sponsorships from your gym or from businesses in your area. I know some guys that started like that. Or, you can move to Germany and kick it with Dennis Wolf and Gunter lol. There is a Pro section on the forum, pick their brains and see what they are doing or have done to get started. And, a sugar momma wouldnt hurt one bit lol.

 

[believer87]

Haha that was classic.. Oh my brother I have a sugar mommuh.. Her name is wife lol.. But I hear ya my man.. Thank you very much of the advice.. It's always nice when people lend a hand with the advice to newbie

 

[MattPorter]

Good post there Matt.. Again honesty is the key.. I will admit that I was a genetic freak in the sport I was in.. But I can also admit when it comes to the sport of bodybuilding I don't know what good genetics look like. I gain very easily, very lean, and I can get away with a sub par diet and do well. But let me ask you a question about Heath.. He has good genetics? I mean I watched him play basketball for Denver and he was a wet towel running around. Granted whatever he does obviously works for him and his nick name was the gift, but I'm obviously not in touch with the sport enough to say what good genetics are. I am 6"3 I sat at 235 when I was 16 and just increased from there. Where I fall stray is I don't eat enough at times.. I have great confusion from time to time on the look I need and or want.. So please educate me in the sport

Good genetics mean you have billowing muscle bellies ---meaning very round 3-D , cartoon looking muscle shape attached to small joints. You have the propensity to accrue LBM without too much effort in lifting or eating right. YOu respond very well to drugs....

You take 300 mgs and look like a National competitor, while joe blow at same gym uses grams and looks only so-so.... HEATH has phenomenal genetics. Look at his full muscles, he blew up very fast and responded well.

You cant take a drug to have small hip girdle, wide clavicles, round muscles, symmetry, etc etc..... If you send me a picture of what you look like on 1 gram of gear it would be pretty clear if you have elite genetics.

Now, I am sure you have damn good genes,,,, but I am talking elite anomalies here. Those are the guys that are at the top.

Most the guys took much less in getting to the top --- as amateurs they in most cases blew past guys who were using double....

I have talked to evan C. Branden R, and have worked with some freaky guys and the amount used is not insane.....

-Matt

 

[AaronJP1]

Bodybuilding is about god given genetics. Gear is crucial of course, but the top guys are essentially 'meant to be' bodybuilders.

You cant just say -- if I take xx amount of gear that so and so pro does I will look like him....I hope you did not think such a thing but I got that impression from your quote here --- "I am 6"3 opposed to the body of Heath or cutler would I have to use a crazy amount of gear or is it possible with my clean diet and dedication,with a decent amount of gear."

I just coached a competitor in Britain this weekend and he earned pro status.....and I knew EXACTLY what he took and its not much compared to regular gym goers this day and age. I can say your taking over 2 x's as much testosterone he was.....

The point is -- the very elite guys have the genes to do this. It would be VERY CLEAR very early if you had the 'goods" or not to make serious impact.

Of course there are the dogged hard workers with mediocre genetics that train like animals, eat perfect nutrition, take quality hormones, and play the time game and fight their way to pro status -- but quickly find out they wont be able to do much....

Read this --- the delusions and reality of hormone cycling

-Matt

That sux.

 

[believer87]

Doesn't suck brotha.. I'm a firm believer that one way or another you can get there but from what all you guys say, there may be a price to pay to get there.. Huge price

 

[yoshi5674]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrjcUq_5tOOWoL574QPxfDnmhAW8Cw66P0gF7Qm8-7AbZOdqgV

 

[Eric160]

yates was one of those who used grams and grams without a doubt ahaha. also i just wanna add that if ur 6ft 3in. u probably dont have the genes lol. im 6ft3 myself and even though i may be a freak as far as putting on muscle a nd losing fat and sucessful athletically. i know i will never look the same as guys who are much shorter than me

 

[believer87]

Well of course not.. It's the length of the muscle.. I had a text convo with a family friend yesterday.. I said I wanted to get to 310 then cut down and he said, "310? Isn't that too big?" Lol
I would prob have to pack on way way more than that to have the bulk if the pros.. Now it can be done but at what cost? And I'm satisfied at this point going with the Arnold look or as close to it as I can

 

[Eric160]

Well of course not.. It's the length of the muscle.. I had a text convo with a family friend yesterday.. I said I wanted to get to 310 then cut down and he said, "310? Isn't that too big?" Lol
I would prob have to pack on way way more than that to have the bulk if the pros.. Now it can be done but at what cost? And I'm satisfied at this point going with the Arnold look or as close to it as I can

yeah hahaha i laugh so hard when ppl tell me how huge thayd bee if they reached 200. i could even cut down to 200 if i tried ahahaha. i got for the arnold look as well. i may never look like a bber on stage but in person i can look like areal freak

 

[believer87]

And right there boss is where I'm starting to become satisfied.. I have a little daughter and as long as the little scums of the earth she brings home look at me with a dropped jaw and think twice about what they do around her.. Well hey.. Job well done
Amen amen amen
Ill do my 9-5 one day and hit the gym with authority and enjoy my quality of life.. To the rest I guess more power to you and best wishes bc I know now I will never put myself through the crazy

 

[believer87]

And to all you guys thanks for the great advice and info.. It was much needed.. And I learned a good deal..

 

[MattPorter]

One last mention of genetically superior athletes 'born for bodybuilding' and someone who has genes for size and mass but crap for looking


good as a Bodybuilder.Can you imagine who does better in Bodybuilding regardless of sheer muscle mass?

-Matt

 

[GotHuge]

Bodybuilding is about god given genetics. Gear is crucial of course, but the top guys are essentially 'meant to be' bodybuilders.

You cant just say -- if I take xx amount of gear that so and so pro does I will look like him....I hope you did not think such a thing but I got that impression from your quote here --- "I am 6"3 opposed to the body of Heath or cutler would I have to use a crazy amount of gear or is it possible with my clean diet and dedication,with a decent amount of gear."

I just coached a competitor in Britain this weekend and he earned pro status.....and I knew EXACTLY what he took and its not much compared to regular gym goers this day and age. I can say your taking over 2 x's as much testosterone he was.....

The point is -- the very elite guys have the genes to do this. It would be VERY CLEAR very early if you had the 'goods" or not to make serious impact.

Of course there are the dogged hard workers with mediocre genetics that train like animals, eat perfect nutrition, take quality hormones, and play the time game and fight their way to pro status -- but quickly find out they wont be able to do much....

Read this ---

-Matt

Very insightful and well-written document. Good work.

 

[MattPorter]

Very insightful and well-written document. Good work.

Thank you sir

-Matt

 

[HereToStudy]

Very insightful and well-written document. Good work.

Agreed. I luckily don't have major competitive ambitions, but I fear there are many that think the pro-card is in their future, but they simply are not on the same playing field.

 

[rabz]

Everyone should read this. I have never wanted to be olympia sized as I find the belly and such creepy but Phil Heath and flex wheeler are incredible. No one has had genetics like them. If everyone will remember to picture what they want to look like and stop aspiring to someone else's physique they would be a lot happier and likely healthier.

 

[HereToStudy]

Everyone should read this. I have never wanted to be olympia sized as I find the belly and such creepy but Phil Heath and flex wheeler are incredible. No one has had genetics like them. If everyone will remember to picture what they want to look like and stop aspiring to someone else's physique they would be a lot happier and likely healthier.

Agreed, personal improvement should always be the driving force.

 

[wrathchild281]

I agree I'm 6'1 and would much rather strive for an Arnold look over current bbers any day. The difference is drugs and the reason for them being smaller in Arnold's day was they used basic gear, no hgh or insulin. Also they had tiny waists which not only looked better but gave them an illusion of being bigger. If ur trying to look like Arnold don't mess with hgh/insulin if ur trying to be competive on the national seen or pro one day than no question u have to make that jump in terms of the drugs u take. Bigger price to pay with those drugs those. Mad expensive too.