Proposed cycle...

[Origdogfish]

I posted this on another site as well... can't have too many sources when doing research.

Been doing my research and I put together a proposed cycle. I haven't purchased anything yet and thought it would be best to get some feedback before I do. I tried to keep it short... if you need more info, I'll provide. Thanks in advance for your time and help.

This would be my second cycle... did the LG Trifecta Stack before. I had good results, even though it is touted as mild. I gained LBM and lowered my BF%. Diet and diligent workout progression are the keys.

I'm 58, 67in, 203lbs, prob abt 25% BF. Good health... no issues, no prescribed meds. Docs say I have the heart of a teenager (smokeblowers..!). I'm prob low test although I have not been tested, I would assume I am in the norm for my age.

Proposed Cycle Info:

Current:

Daily:
Vitamins
Fish Oil
Trigosamine
Creatine (5gr)
DAA (3gr)
Erase (not pro) (1 cap 25mg)
DHEA (50mg)
Tribulus (1g)
1 - 1.5 pots coffee
(all above on hand)

Pre-Workout:
(Home brew)
Taurine (2g)
Citrulline Mallate (1.75g)
Agmatine (.5g)
Beta Alanine (1g)
1,3 Dim (20mg)
(all above on hand)

Intra-workout:
Scivation Extend (on hand)

Post-Workout:
Food

----------

Cycle:

Continue with daily vitamins and supps. If recommended, stop the DAA, Erase, Trib and DHEA on cycle.
Continue drinking coffee... adjust if necessary due to BP or sleep probs.
Continue with Pre-workout... If recommended, stop the 1,3 Dim while on cycle.

Preload:
CEL Cycle Assist (need to purchase)
Super Cissus Rx (need to purchase)
Vitamins*
Fish Oil*
Trigosamine*
*(included in daily... Fish Oil and Trigosamine to adjust if necessary)


PH's:

AMS 1-Androsterone RDe (need to purchase)
2 tabs per day for 6 weeks

AMS 4-AD RDe CHROME (need to purchase)
2 tabs per day for 6 weeks

LGI Epi-10 (need to purchase)
30/40/40/40/50*/50* (close to 2 bottles 180 caps) (21+28+28+28+35+35=175)
(* if needed and all goes well or stay at 40... could start 50mgs in week 4... would have 5 extra caps)

Throughout cycle:
CEL Cycle Assist (need to purchase)
Vitamins
Fish Oil*
Super Cissus Rx* (need to purchase)
Trigosamine*
Taurine: 2g*
* will adjust if needed

PCT:
Nolvadex: 20/20/10/10 140, 140, 70, 70=420 1 bottle 600mg (need to purchase)
Erase:0/2/3/3/2/1
Vitamins
Fish Oil
Super Cissus Rx
Trigosamine
DAA
Trib

I will appreciate any advice you care to give. If there are some things I should add or substitute let me know.
Thanks

 

[Origdogfish]

I would appreciate any feedback...

Anyone..?

 

[Exian]

Looks like a nicely laid out cycle. You covered all the bases. What are your goals though? You're 58, are you looking to build? Gain mass? Lose body fat? I'd be extra careful with supplements even if you currently have a great heart. Cholesterol levels can be effected so I'd have your doctor monitor those during and after the cycle. I'd also recommend lots of liver support, and have your doctor monitor your liver as well. At your age your liver isn't as healthy as someone who's is 30, and a little damage can be detrimental to future health. You're running a 6 week methylated oral cycle, methylated orals can be very liver toxic. And even slight damage can lead to cirrhosis. Often drug dosages need to be lowered for people approaching 70, I know you're not there yet but a six week oral cycle with planned dosages at 50 isn't exactly shy. This is just food for thought. Good luck with it! Train hard, hit the gym 4-5 days a week, eat well, and rest.

 

[Origdogfish]

Looks like a nicely laid out cycle. You covered all the bases. What are your goals though? You're 58, are you looking to build? Gain mass? Lose body fat? I'd be extra careful with supplements even if you currently have a great heart. Cholesterol levels can be effected so I'd have your doctor monitor those during and after the cycle. I'd also recommend lots of liver support, and have your doctor monitor your liver as well. At your age your liver isn't as healthy as someone who's is 30, and a little damage can be detrimental to future health. You're running a 6 week methylated oral cycle, methylated orals can be very liver toxic. And even slight damage can lead to cirrhosis. Often drug dosages need to be lowered for people approaching 70, I know you're not there yet but a six week oral cycle with planned dosages at 50 isn't exactly shy. This is just food for thought. Good luck with it! Train hard, hit the gym 4-5 days a week, eat well, and rest.

Thanks Exian

I have been dropping weight for a couple of years. I was eating a calorie deficit of about 500 calories and was "Zone Diet" aware without going overboard. I lost abt 80lbs in 2 years. I tried to keep my macros at 40C, 30P and 30F.

I got back into lifting last Christmas, doing SL 5X5's. Last winter I was lifting 3 or days each week and doing a BootCamp session 3 days a week.

I logged the Trifecta Stack on another site. I was happy with the results and want to do another cycle soon. I was skinny fat and after all my workout time, due to the slow recomp I was doing I didn't have much LBM to show for all the effort. I want to build more mass and lose more BF (doesn't everyone..?). In my case the clock is ticking though... don't know how many years of working out I will be granted. One accident in the gym at my age could possibly be the end of lifting for me. I want to get stronger before it all comes to a halt. I want to squat instead of needing one of those chairs that stands you up.

I started my Trifecta cycle at a cal deficit but followed the demands of my body. I was soon eating at least a 500 cal surplus and a lot of protein. I gained abt 7lbs LBM and dropped abt 5lbs of fat on that cycle... 7 weeks. Not earth shattering results, but real good I think for the mild nature of the stack and no sides.

I will be extra careful with supplements and their effect on my liver. I picked Epi because it is touted as being mild. The dosage... I got from (where else?) the internet somewhere. Having never done Epi... I read logs that were available. If 30mg seems adequate, I will stick with that and save the rest for another cycle... cheap bastard that I am.

Liver health-wise... I don't drink or do recreational drugs. Cholesterol health-wise I have always been at the low end of the scale. I have been a vegetarian since I was 18. I'll eat seafood (all types) and dairy. I don't eat red meat or chicken. I do eat clean (semi organic) and I save my liver having to deal with a lot of food additives.

 

[Exian]

Be careful, you may want to keep lifting before you try PH. Getting too big/strong too fast can lead to injury. Tendon injuries, for example, from your body not being used to lifting that much are common and take forever to heal. You will want a lot of joint support. I see you had fish oil, but def add glucosamine. Ph can mess with cholesterol and liver enzymes quicker than you may think so just err on the side of caution. Liver support supps like organ shield or cycle assist and milk thistle are good.

 

[Exian]

You did cover a lot of the bases though. I don't know much about lg trifecta stack but I know it's not as potent as pro hormones are. You will gain with epi as long as you eat right and train correctly and safely. PCT is essential to keeping your gains

 

[Exian]

Oh and shoot for drinking at least a gallon of water a day. No less. A tip is to try to drink most during the morning so your sleep isn't constantly being interrupted by the urge to pee.

 

[Origdogfish]

Be careful, you may want to keep lifting before you try PH. Getting too big/strong too fast can lead to injury. Tendon injuries, for example, from your body not being used to lifting that much are common and take forever to heal. You will want a lot of joint support. I see you had fish oil, but def add glucosamine. Ph can mess with cholesterol and liver enzymes quicker than you may think so just err on the side of caution. Liver support supps like organ shield or cycle assist and milk thistle are good.

Thanks

Tigosamine is an OTC joint health supp. It contains Glucosamine 1500mg, Hyaluronic Acid 13mg and Rapid Flex Proprietary Blend 610mg. I'm hoping the Super Cissis RX will help with joints, ligaments, tendons etc.

I thought liver support would be covered by the CEL Cycle Assist... should I also add Organ Shield and additional milk thistle..? There is 500mg of milk thistle in Cycle Assist.

 

[Origdogfish]

Oh and shoot for drinking at least a gallon of water a day. No less. A tip is to try to drink most during the morning so your sleep isn't constantly being interrupted by the urge to pee.

Thanks

That's good advice for anyone anytime. I'm always drinking... I prefer that to drinking a lot at one time so that you slosh when you move.

 

[Exian]

Cycle assist would be fine. It may be a good idea to preload on the liver support a week or two before you start. When are you planning on starting this?

 

[Origdogfish]

Cycle assist would be fine. It may be a good idea to preload on the liver support a week or two before you start. When are you planning on starting this?

I haven't ordered anything yet... wanted to make sure I was making good choices first. The 11th of Sep was my last day on the Trifecta Stack. LG says wait 4 weeks before doing a Trifecta cycle again. I understand that usually rule of thumb is time on (including PCT) should equal time off. That would mean 7 weeks. I think that the Trifecta Stack was so mild that LG only suggests 4 weeks off. 10 Oct would be 4 weeks, 31 Oct would be 7 weeks.

I will prob get everything ordered in the next couple of days and I will start when I have everything. Probably within 2 weeks, certainly not before the 10th.

I'm planning on pre-loading support supps for a week or two. It may be close to the 7 weeks off before I start any PH's.

Someone suggested that I don't do the AMS 1-Ando and 4-AD and only cycle the Epi. Any thoughts..?

 

[chris223]

Someone suggested that I don't do the AMS 1-Ando and 4-AD and only cycle the Epi. Any thoughts..?

You'll probably do terrific on the Epi alone. The 4ad may be nice to have for combating lethargy, but the 1-Andro you can do without.

 

[Exian]

You'll probably do terrific on the Epi alone. The 4ad may be nice to have for combating lethargy, but the 1-Andro you can do without.

I agree epi alone would be fine.

 

[Origdogfish]

I think I have everything on hand now that I need for pre-cycle thru PCT.

In addition to what I had on hand (above) I now have Cycle Assist, Cissus XT, Transaderm, Epimax and Nolva.

I decided on Transaderm instead of the 4AD, to offset lethargy, etc.

I wasn't too happy about 18mg Epi dosage but 10's were out of stock. I'll prob max at and stick with 36mg ED. If I have to increase I will try to split a cap... cross that bridge when and if. Hopefully, 10s will be in stock when I need them.

I was planning on starting the Transaderm, Cycle Assist and Cissus 2 weeks before starting the Epi.

 

[Tmac22314]

Have you ever considered going to get tested to see your test levels? Just curious, but you may be able to get a script for some actual test if you don't mind pinning. Just a thought on that, however your proposed cycle looks very thought out and has great potential. Good luck man!

 

[Origdogfish]

Have you ever considered going to get tested to see your test levels? Just curious, but you may be able to get a script for some actual test if you don't mind pinning. Just a thought on that, however your proposed cycle looks very thought out and has great potential. Good luck man!

I'd love to be on TRT... no insurance. I spoke to one Dr that specialized in HRT... she didn't even have an office... had an ad and cards at a gym. I called... she called back. It seemed like there would be a few unnecessary visits required before getting on. She used a Chiropractor's office for exams and such when needed. Her operation seemed a little hokey but she is prob covering her ass... I think she would end up prescribing whatever you wanted in the long run.

Without insurance... it's prob all cheaper on the street. I just have no luck, and I think that would apply to doing anything illegal... so Transaderm it is for now.

 

[Tmac22314]

I'd love to be on TRT... no insurance. I spoke to one Dr that specialized in HRT... she didn't even have an office... had an ad and cards at a gym. I called... she called back. It seemed like there would be a few unnecessary visits required before getting on. She used a Chiropractor's office for exams and such when needed. Her operation seemed a little hokey but she is prob covering her ass... I think she would end up prescribing whatever you wanted in the long run.

Without insurance... it's prob all cheaper on the street. I just have no luck, and I think that would apply to doing anything illegal... so Transaderm it is for now.

Aww I gotcha, yea you are right on the route you are going then brother. You'll still have a solid run with this cycle, good luck man!

 

[vassille]

Interesting...so let me be the devil's advocat here. What would happen if you do this cycle and your natural test wont recover?
No insurance no HRT. Seting yourself up for some tough decissions my friend.
Let me tell you, it is no fun trying to live life with your test levels in the toillette!
just a heads up

 

[Origdogfish]

Interesting...so let me be the devil's advocat here. What would happen if you do this cycle and your natural test wont recover?
No insurance no HRT. Seting yourself up for some tough decissions my friend.
Let me tell you, it is no fun trying to live life with your test levels in the toillette!
just a heads up

Probably the same thing that happens when I break a bone or need stitches (both have happened)... or any other medical condition that requires professional care. It's no fun trying to live life under-insured or un-insured in the land of big medicine and big pharma. One does what they have to do. Overcome, adapt and persevere.

 

[cashinova87]

I'd love to be on TRT... no insurance. I spoke to one Dr that specialized in HRT... she didn't even have an office... had an ad and cards at a gym. I called... she called back. It seemed like there would be a few unnecessary visits required before getting on. She used a Chiropractor's office for exams and such when needed. Her operation seemed a little hokey but she is prob covering her ass... I think she would end up prescribing whatever you wanted in the long run.

Without insurance... it's prob all cheaper on the street. I just have no luck, and I think that would apply to doing anything illegal... so Transaderm it is for now.

She needs you to have blood tests done so she can then prescribe you testosterone. And she prob has deca and winstrol available. She prob has HGH and that my friend is what you should really get on to lose the weight and add clean mass that will stay with you. Stack it with deca for the joints and testosterone you'll be golden. Most docs like this do That's all.

You need to meet this doctor ASAP.. She will give u whatever u need and once u get on testosterone you will absolutely love it. And it'll be pharm grade. You're 58 don't waste your time and ruin your liver running epi and all this other junk in your body. With test you'll feel amazing and you will steadily gain muscle and strength that you don't have to worry about keeping your gains.

Sorry that my post has not much to do with your current cycle just a heads up

 

[vassille]

Probably the same thing that happens when I break a bone or need stitches (both have happened)... or any other medical condition that requires professional care. It's no fun trying to live life under-insured or un-insured in the land of big medicine and big pharma. One does what they have to do. Overcome, adapt and persevere.

I understand my point is that it is worth spending the few buck and get injectible test rather than wasting time with orals which are not a great compound at your age.
If I were to make a comparason between the orals you plan to do and injectible test is like eating a mcdonalds for lunch and 5 star restaurant. It is so much smoother with test than orals.
All these money you will waste geting all these supps better just get real test run it for 10 weeks at 400mg a week. You dont need a whole lot but a multi vitamin and fish oil and maybe a very small amount of adex.

 

[Origdogfish]

I understand my point is that it is worth spending the few buck and get injectible test rather than wasting time with orals which are not a great compound at your age.
If I were to make a comparason between the orals you plan to do and injectible test is like eating a mcdonalds for lunch and 5 star restaurant. It is so much smoother with test than orals.
All these money you will waste geting all these supps better just get real test run it for 10 weeks at 400mg a week. You dont need a whole lot but a multi vitamin and fish oil and maybe a very small amount of adex.

Thanks...
I would love to be in a position to do that... unfortunately, I'm not. I'm running this whole cycle for less than an appointment with the specialist... she wanted me to see a GP first, then see her, then get a test, then see her and discuss results and options... then I think one more visit before getting pinned. Too much. I would imagine that the price of prescribed test without insurance would be insanely prohibitive for me as well.

As I said, I have terrible luck and it would rear it's ugly head if I went the illegal route.

 

[vassille]

Thanks...
I would love to be in a position to do that... unfortunately, I'm not. I'm running this whole cycle for less than an appointment with the specialist... she wanted me to see a GP first, then see her, then get a test, then see her and discuss results and options... then I think one more visit before getting pinned. Too much. I would imagine that the price of prescribed test without insurance would be insanely prohibitive for me as well.

As I said, I have terrible luck and it would rear it's ugly head if I went the illegal route.

I understand np. The price of a bottle of test 10ml from pharmacy without insurance around $100.