Why not just use your diet and see where that gets you?
If you just got off cycle then you have not taken the proper time off cycle before starting another. You should br able to cut properly without PH's
Just because I'm new here doesn't mean I'm ignorant concerning my body or steroids. In my first post I asked if I should wait until I can cycle steroids again (time on + pct) or just use clen. My question remains, clen only, an oral like epi, or maybe both?
Why would you have to wait to start a cut until you can use steroids. If you can't cut properly without them then you are not at the point where you should be using them at all IMO.
I'm trying to be patient with you here man. I never said I needed steroids or clen to cut. I have had several successful bulks and cuts without cycling in the past. However, there is such a thing as a "cutting cycle." Perhaps you haven't heard of it. The purpose of using anabolics in a cut is to preserve more muscle mass than would be preservable without hormonal assistance. The purpose of clen is to broncho-dilate and stimulate the CNS. I'm trying to be a cool guy, thinking that perhaps you were posting comments to help me, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Honestly you haven't contributed anything here my man. You're pretty much being a prick, and I haven't given you any reason to. Seriously dude, you came in here with an attitude from the very first post and I don't know why.
I'm being sincere asking this, not a smartass. Isn't the usual cycle of bodybuilding bulk-cut bulk-cut? I don't think it's abnormal for me to want to cut after a bulk. Perhaps I should have made this clearer, I'm not looking for immediate results and there is no sense of urgency in the air. I'm waiting until my body is recovered from my last cycle to start slowly cutting away. Honestly I'm not sure how much fat I gained. I don't have calipers. I'm not a fatass or anything, but my waist went up 2 inches and I can only see a faint outline of my top four abs. My strength shot up enormously though, and so did my chest legs and arms as far as size goes. I seem to respond really well to mid/lower dose hdrol compared to other people I've seen post who seem to not get that much from it.
The only one with an attitude here is you. You asked for opinions and I gave you mine, if you had such "successful" cuts you wouldn't need steroids. I understand the point of clen and PH's for a cut but with proper diet you should be able to cut with natty supps and a good diet. If you just came off cycle then there is a certain amount of time required before you cycle again, I think its ridiculous that you find yourself holding off on your cut until you are recovered for your next cycle, if you can't progress without steroids then you can't progress at all. Feel free to get upset cuz this isn't what you want to hear.
thanks for that explanation man. I didn't realize it sounded like that. I'm not just some noob looking for the easy way out. Because there is no easy way out,even with assistance.
No, just no. You don't know me or the level of success of my past cuts. In a natty cut, you expect to lose some muscle and strength unless you're a gentic freak regardless of how good your cut is. And that is successful for natty. In an anabolic cut, you gain strength and possibly even have a recomp effect depending on how keyed in diet is. That is successful for a steroid cut. You are trying to argue with me and I see no reason for it. I'm not being confrontational, and I'm making educated rebuttals. I don't know what your deal is.
I didn't go crazy with cals or anything, but I ate usually 750-1000 over maintenance or something. And yeah, I kept cals high during pct to keep as much gains as possible and I'm slowly ramping down to around maintenance now. I expect to shed a few pounds in the next couple weeks or so hopefully! I'm just kind of weary about going lower too fast since I'm not really sure how solidified my gains from the cycle are.
There was no "deal" until you got upset when you didn't here what you wanted and decided to call someone who was trying to help a "prick." If you can't handle the opinions of others then you shouldn't ask for them.
Amongst the most ignorant posters I've seen on here. Just because you type long words and repeat things you've read doesn't mean it's an educated rebuttal.
Hey, I do apologize for calling you a prick. To me it seemed like you were being argumentative rather than constructive. Maybe I got the wrong impression. And I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the suggestions, just trying to see why that's the consensus.
I don't think I've been ignorant. and yes, knowledge comes from things we read, and educated people tend to use better vocabulary. Yes, I am tweaking my diet and will continue to do so. I do understand what you're saying about cutting, and I agree. I will be lowering to maintenance and losing weight before I add in any substances if I even do. I don't think I was clear on my intentions. I don't wan't help my whole cut, that's childish. I don't need a crutch to cut fat and keep muscle right now. When I drop into lower bodyfat though, many weeks from now, it will become increasingly harder. Which is when I was considering adding clen or Anabolics. That is what I've between trying to get at. I'm in no hurry to jump into another cycle currently. Maybe that is why I'm being called ignorant? If not please tell me so I can correct what I'm doing or apologize. Hopefully this can put us on the same page in this thread.
I'm sorry if that is how I made it seem. No, I fully intend on cracking down on diet way before adding any substances in. I'm not just trying to take steroids or a stimulant to magically make the fat go away or the muscles grow. Of course it's all in diet and training. Maybe my response to jraw can clear things up between us if you want to read that. My intent is not to wait until I can cycle again to begin cutting. I don't need a compound to assist me at the level I am at now, we're strictly talking about possible future situations with body fat much lower when adding in compounds. Besides, clen isn't even as helpful unless body fat is already sort of low is my understanding.
Haha I'm hoping that's all. That's not my intention at all. I surely gained some fat and maybe even muscle in pct too because I kept the cals relatively high. And that's interesting about sd. Usually people say that's one of the harder compounds to keep a lot of gains on afterwards because the cycles are so short and it's a lot of glycogen and water retention. You're telling me you didn't lose any strength? How'd you run it?
Ran it 10/10/20/20 then 30 for a couple days but it seemed pointless. Also ran stano alongside at 600mg a day. Pct was Clomid 100/50/25/25 and yeah kept nearly all strength, and let my body sort of balance out. 175->195 on cycle, then I slowly have gone back down to 180 but I'm 2-3% bf lower than what I was at 175. Look good feel good. Sd makes you a monster man!
That sounds like a solid plan. Single digits or very near is really the only time I would need assistance. Until then it's smooth sailing. I know there are a billion clen threads with everyone arguing about it, but from your experience or knowlesge is clen anti catabolic at dose levels appropriate for human use? I can't seem to find a real answer to this.
From my experience I didn't notice any loss of strength or size in my muscle mass. Just sweat my ass off 24/7 and jitters got crazy when I was nervous. I love clen runs.
This guy if full of ****. Would YOU want to cut natty if you had clen and AAS/PH at your disposal?? F*** No, get down off your high horse and eat something lightweight.
Lolol, I do have it at my disposal. You're an idiot. I'm sorry that you can't progress without AAS which is no better than when kids rely on their supps and use them as a crutch, hell you probably refuse to lift when you aren't on cycle don't you? I never said anything against him cycling, I said he shouldn't use cycles as a crutch, and that he should cut down natty as far as he can before he decides to add in those things. Troll.
Never tried sd and I never got my hands on any of that sd before the ban! ): Oh well, maybe I'll come across a rogue bottle somewhere down the line. And congrats man, that sounds like an awesome cycle.
I've never done a clen only run and so I guess that was a main motive for even posting this thread. lol you have me excited now
holy **** bro, thats a lot of information! hahaha Now THATS how you reply to a thread! Honestly I've never even looked into ostarine or given it any thought. I'll definitely go do some research on it! lol I'm over here still trying to absorb everything you just threw at me. I can't even process that much useful information right now after getting hardly anything but flame the whole thread. lol time to switch gears
Bro he has a point. And you're making crazy accusations about him and me using aas as a crutch and refusing to lift when not on cycle. what?You don't even know either of us. Even after I cleared it up that I'm not looking to use anything until after I get to lower bodyfat you all of a sudden stop replying to me and still don't answer the simple question that I asked. So all in all, you didn't bring anything at all to this thread besides flame. Now if you decide to share some of your omnipotent almighty wisdom with the rest of us maybe we'll understand your motives. Or your just a troll. yeah, I'm pretty sure you're just a troll.
no worries man, i used to write whole papers on dieting and using your metabolic hormones in your brain to your advantage, alot of what i say seems to fall on deaf ears, so i really appreciate the karma man! Ostarine & Andaraine initially came about as an experimental trial to treat people with muscle wasting diseases as a safer alternative to AAS, Andarine was the first but it never hit the mainstream market as it didnt yield favourable results and had its own side effect (temporary night blindess) that occured in several test subjects. Ostarine was supposed to be its successor, but for some reason the research company halted development before it being finalised for public release, however a supplement company has claimed to have ostarine in its product 'osta-rx', and although it seemed sketchy at first, first hand testing from consumers have proven that not only are both products work as intended (though no where as potent as AAS) the best thing about both is that theyre not hormone derived ergo no pct no aromatisation and no negative impact on your liver, which makes them the perfect bridging chemical.
Isn't ostarine suppressive? My understanding is that its only mildly suppressive but still not advised during PCT due to its suppressive nature.
I assume you mean mcg for the clen right?
OK you want advice. Get your.diet right. Cut down to an acceptable bf% (preferably sub 10%) or close to it. If you find at that point that you NEED AAS to progress further use Epi at recommended dosages as per poster above. I've seen people do up to 60mg but a lot of people complain about joint pain with epi (I've never used so Idk) If you decide to use clen (which I don't advise) then I would start at 20mcg and slowly work up as you assess your tolerance to it. (Or do what works for you idc either way because it isn't my problem). Have a proper post cycle after the epi, poster above recommended torem but I would use clomid personally because of its effectiveness at restoring HPTA.
You assume correct my good man
I figured as much cuz mg would be a crazy amount....
ha! actually starting at 80-100mcgs is a crazy amount, generally depending on your BMI id start at 40mcg's for 2 days then increase by 20mcgs in two day blocks until you hit your sweet spot, also look at dosing in keto and benadryl if youre going to go longer than 6 weeks. Personally i hate clen and prefer Albuterol, and considering clens the asthma med for animals and albuterols for humans, id pick the stuff thats meant for humans any day, its like choosing Vet grade Test over HG, doesnt make sense to me, but each to his own.
I don't agree with either of them for bbing but I know people will still do it. I think that starting at 20mcg is the best way to go until you know how it will effect you and then go from there. I also dont recommend people going higher than 100mcg either, hell IMO 100 is pushing it as it is.
It becomes necessary to take something to preserve optimal LBM gained after a bulk in some individuals due to genetics or those who are more than 20lbs above their natural weight limit and trying to maintain sub 10% BF, thanks to their body's own myostatin levels. the average guy whos 5ft 10 and 180lbs wouldnt need it, but should that same 5ft10 guy be 215lbs+ and wanting 10% BF than chicken and broccolli aint gonna cut it.
If he's 215 at 15% or higher his LBM is only 180. He could easily cut down to 200-205 while losing very little, if any, LBM if done properly IME. I don't believe one needs these compounds unless they are competing and I seriously doubt OP is trying to cut down for the next NPC show....
I am actually cutting down for a modeling audition shoot. I'd say that's pretty close. Not exactly the same, I don't need to be quite as vascular, but I need to look my best regardless.
I disagree completely. I know dudes that have modeled and none of then look anything like this:
You're right man, I definitely don't need to look like a pro. a few agencies already tell me I'm a little bulky as it is. Lol but that doesn't mean I'm going to lose hard earned muscle for them.
As far as physique prep goes there are a good deal of people on here that have done those shows. I lift for performance in relation to my career so I cannot give experience on physique shows, talk to pyrobatt as I believe he's planning on entering a comp soon or organicshadow as I think he's in prep for one now. They will both be willing to help you via PM if you need it.
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