Time to cut! need opinions.

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by DelaRone

    This guy if full of ****. Would YOU want to cut natty if you had clen and AAS/PH at your disposal?? F*** No, get down off your high horse and eat something lightweight.
    Lolol, I do have it at my disposal. You're an idiot. I'm sorry that you can't progress without AAS which is no better than when kids rely on their supps and use them as a crutch, hell you probably refuse to lift when you aren't on cycle don't you? I never said anything against him cycling, I said he shouldn't use cycles as a crutch, and that he should cut down natty as far as he can before he decides to add in those things. Troll.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Jraw View Post
    Ran it 10/10/20/20 then 30 for a couple days but it seemed pointless. Also ran stano alongside at 600mg a day. Pct was Clomid 100/50/25/25 and yeah kept nearly all strength, and let my body sort of balance out. 175->195 on cycle, then I slowly have gone back down to 180 but I'm 2-3% bf lower than what I was at 175. Look good feel good. Sd makes you a monster man!
    Never tried sd and I never got my hands on any of that sd before the ban! ): Oh well, maybe I'll come across a rogue bottle somewhere down the line. And congrats man, that sounds like an awesome cycle.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Lhns2 View Post
    From my experience I didn't notice any loss of strength or size in my muscle mass. Just sweat my ass off 24/7 and jitters got crazy when I was nervous. I love clen runs.

    Sent from my super duper VS920 4G using Am.com app!
    I've never done a clen only run and so I guess that was a main motive for even posting this thread. lol you have me excited now (:

  4. Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89 View Post
    Diet is 60-70% of cutting but you already know this, some people even with perfect diet will lose an unacceptable amount of LBM while cutting which is why people turn to chems instead, but you already know this as well, so rather than flaming you ill offer my advice: go for maintenance for 2 weeks just to let your body settle again and get used to a stable routine, then try this for a cut:
    * Week 1 - 6 albuterol/clen (depending on the legality of clen in your country, albuterol is just as effective at 18-24mgs ED)
    * Week 7 - 12 Ostarine and/or Andarine (Dylangemmelli has a really nice thread on it, just google 'dylan ostarine log' and click on the first result) at 25mg ED for the Ostarine & 25-50mg ED for the S4 Andarine

    An ideal cut would be to do the Ostarine (particularly Osta Rx) as part of your pct for hdrol cycle to really maximise your gains and help transition from bulk - maintence - cut without losing any LBM. Alternatively if you're willing to wait (and have the cash) you could try something like this:

    * Week 1 - 6: 40mg Epistane ED (you could try 50mg ED for 1-2 weeks)
    * Week 7 - 10: PCT SERM (i would highly recommend some liquid torem at 90, 60, 60, 30mg ED)
    * Week 7 - 12: Ostarine 25 MG ED
    * Week 7 - 12/13 - 16: S4 Andarine 50MG ED (you could lower this to 25-30mg ED as 50mg ED CAN cause issues with vision at night)
    * Week 7-12/14/16 Albuterol OR Clen at 24mg ED (with week one being 8,12,16,24X4mg ED) OR 80-100mcgs (depending on your tolerance levels) ED

    Anyways man, hope this helps!
    holy **** bro, thats a lot of information! hahaha Now THATS how you reply to a thread! Honestly I've never even looked into ostarine or given it any thought. I'll definitely go do some research on it! lol I'm over here still trying to absorb everything you just threw at me. I can't even process that much useful information right now after getting hardly anything but flame the whole thread. lol time to switch gears

  5. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Lolol, I do have it at my disposal. You're an idiot. I'm sorry that you can't progress without AAS which is no better than when kids rely on their supps and use them as a crutch, hell you probably refuse to lift when you aren't on cycle don't you? I never said anything against him cycling, I said he shouldn't use cycles as a crutch, and that he should cut down natty as far as he can before he decides to add in those things. Troll.
    Bro he has a point. And you're making crazy accusations about him and me using aas as a crutch and refusing to lift when not on cycle. what?You don't even know either of us. Even after I cleared it up that I'm not looking to use anything until after I get to lower bodyfat you all of a sudden stop replying to me and still don't answer the simple question that I asked. So all in all, you didn't bring anything at all to this thread besides flame. Now if you decide to share some of your omnipotent almighty wisdom with the rest of us maybe we'll understand your motives. Or your just a troll. yeah, I'm pretty sure you're just a troll.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats View Post
    holy **** bro, thats a lot of information! hahaha Now THATS how you reply to a thread! Honestly I've never even looked into ostarine or given it any thought. I'll definitely go do some research on it! lol I'm over here still trying to absorb everything you just threw at me. I can't even process that much useful information right now after getting hardly anything but flame the whole thread. lol time to switch gears
    no worries man, i used to write whole papers on dieting and using your metabolic hormones in your brain to your advantage, alot of what i say seems to fall on deaf ears, so i really appreciate the karma man! Ostarine & Andaraine initially came about as an experimental trial to treat people with muscle wasting diseases as a safer alternative to AAS, Andarine was the first but it never hit the mainstream market as it didnt yield favourable results and had its own side effect (temporary night blindess) that occured in several test subjects. Ostarine was supposed to be its successor, but for some reason the research company halted development before it being finalised for public release, however a supplement company has claimed to have ostarine in its product 'osta-rx', and although it seemed sketchy at first, first hand testing from consumers have proven that not only are both products work as intended (though no where as potent as AAS) the best thing about both is that theyre not hormone derived ergo no pct no aromatisation and no negative impact on your liver, which makes them the perfect bridging chemical.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89

    no worries man, i used to write whole papers on dieting and using your metabolic hormones in your brain to your advantage, alot of what i say seems to fall on deaf ears, so i really appreciate the karma man! Ostarine & Andaraine initially came about as an experimental trial to treat people with muscle wasting diseases as a safer alternative to AAS, Andarine was the first but it never hit the mainstream market as it didnt yield favourable results and had its own side effect (temporary night blindess) that occured in several test subjects. Ostarine was supposed to be its successor, but for some reason the research company halted development before it being finalised for public release, however a supplement company has claimed to have ostarine in its product 'osta-rx', and although it seemed sketchy at first, first hand testing from consumers have proven that not only are both products work as intended (though no where as potent as AAS) the best thing about both is that theyre not hormone derived ergo no pct no aromatisation and no negative impact on your liver, which makes them the perfect bridging chemical.
    Isn't ostarine suppressive? My understanding is that its only mildly suppressive but still not advised during PCT due to its suppressive nature.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89
    Diet is 60-70% of cutting but you already know this, some people even with perfect diet will lose an unacceptable amount of LBM while cutting which is why people turn to chems instead, but you already know this as well, so rather than flaming you ill offer my advice: go for maintenance for 2 weeks just to let your body settle again and get used to a stable routine, then try this for a cut:
    * Week 1 - 6 albuterol/clen (depending on the legality of clen in your country, albuterol is just as effective at 18-24mgs ED)
    * Week 7 - 12 Ostarine and/or Andarine (Dylangemmelli has a really nice thread on it, just google 'dylan ostarine log' and click on the first result) at 25mg ED for the Ostarine & 25-50mg ED for the S4 Andarine

    An ideal cut would be to do the Ostarine (particularly Osta Rx) as part of your pct for hdrol cycle to really maximise your gains and help transition from bulk - maintence - cut without losing any LBM. Alternatively if you're willing to wait (and have the cash) you could try something like this:

    * Week 1 - 6: 40mg Epistane ED (you could try 50mg ED for 1-2 weeks)
    * Week 7 - 10: PCT SERM (i would highly recommend some liquid torem at 90, 60, 60, 30mg ED)
    * Week 7 - 12: Ostarine 25 MG ED
    * Week 7 - 12/13 - 16: S4 Andarine 50MG ED (you could lower this to 25-30mg ED as 50mg ED CAN cause issues with vision at night)
    * Week 7-12/14/16 Albuterol OR Clen at 24mg ED (with week one being 8,12,16,24X4mg ED) OR 80-100mcgs (depending on your tolerance levels) ED

    Anyways man, hope this helps!
    I assume you mean mcg for the clen right?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats

    Bro he has a point. And you're making crazy accusations about him and me using aas as a crutch and refusing to lift when not on cycle. what?You don't even know either of us. Even after I cleared it up that I'm not looking to use anything until after I get to lower bodyfat you all of a sudden stop replying to me and still don't answer the simple question that I asked. So all in all, you didn't bring anything at all to this thread besides flame. Now if you decide to share some of your omnipotent almighty wisdom with the rest of us maybe we'll understand your motives. Or your just a troll. yeah, I'm pretty sure you're just a troll.
    OK you want advice. Get your.diet right. Cut down to an acceptable bf% (preferably sub 10%) or close to it. If you find at that point that you NEED AAS to progress further use Epi at recommended dosages as per poster above. I've seen people do up to 60mg but a lot of people complain about joint pain with epi (I've never used so Idk) If you decide to use clen (which I don't advise) then I would start at 20mcg and slowly work up as you assess your tolerance to it. (Or do what works for you idc either way because it isn't my problem). Have a proper post cycle after the epi, poster above recommended torem but I would use clomid personally because of its effectiveness at restoring HPTA.

    I am a proponent of using proper diet to make as much progress as possible unless you are a physique/bbing competitor as you don't really need it.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I assume you mean mcg for the clen right?
    You assume correct my good man

  11. Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89

    You assume correct my good man
    I figured as much cuz mg would be a crazy amount....

  12. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I figured as much cuz mg would be a crazy amount....
    ha! actually starting at 80-100mcgs is a crazy amount, generally depending on your BMI id start at 40mcg's for 2 days then increase by 20mcgs in two day blocks until you hit your sweet spot, also look at dosing in keto and benadryl if youre going to go longer than 6 weeks. Personally i hate clen and prefer Albuterol, and considering clens the asthma med for animals and albuterols for humans, id pick the stuff thats meant for humans any day, its like choosing Vet grade Test over HG, doesnt make sense to me, but each to his own.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89

    ha! actually starting at 80-100mcgs is a crazy amount, generally depending on your BMI id start at 40mcg's for 2 days then increase by 20mcgs in two day blocks until you hit your sweet spot, also look at dosing in keto and benadryl if youre going to go longer than 6 weeks. Personally i hate clen and prefer Albuterol, and considering clens the asthma med for animals and albuterols for humans, id pick the stuff thats meant for humans any day, its like choosing Vet grade Test over HG, doesnt make sense to me, but each to his own.
    I don't agree with either of them for bbing but I know people will still do it. I think that starting at 20mcg is the best way to go until you know how it will effect you and then go from there. I also dont recommend people going higher than 100mcg either, hell IMO 100 is pushing it as it is.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I don't agree with either of them for bbing but I know people will still do it. I think that starting at 20mcg is the best way to go until you know how it will effect you and then go from there. I also dont recommend people going higher than 100mcg either, hell IMO 100 is pushing it as it is.
    It becomes necessary to take something to preserve optimal LBM gained after a bulk in some individuals due to genetics or those who are more than 20lbs above their natural weight limit and trying to maintain sub 10% BF, thanks to their body's own myostatin levels. the average guy whos 5ft 10 and 180lbs wouldnt need it, but should that same 5ft10 guy be 215lbs+ and wanting 10% BF than chicken and broccolli aint gonna cut it.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89

    It becomes necessary to take something to preserve optimal LBM gained after a bulk in some individuals due to genetics or those who are more than 20lbs above their natural weight limit and trying to maintain sub 10% BF, thanks to their body's own myostatin levels. the average guy whos 5ft 10 and 180lbs wouldnt need it, but should that same 5ft10 guy be 215lbs+ and wanting 10% BF than chicken and broccolli aint gonna cut it.
    If he's 215 at 15% or higher his LBM is only 180. He could easily cut down to 200-205 while losing very little, if any, LBM if done properly IME. I don't believe one needs these compounds unless they are competing and I seriously doubt OP is trying to cut down for the next NPC show....

  16. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    If he's 215 at 15% or higher his LBM is only 180. He could easily cut down to 200-205 while losing very little, if any, LBM if done properly IME. I don't believe one needs these compounds unless they are competing and I seriously doubt OP is trying to cut down for the next NPC show....
    I am actually cutting down for a modeling audition shoot. I'd say that's pretty close. Not exactly the same, I don't need to be quite as vascular, but I need to look my best regardless.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats

    I am actually cutting down for a modeling audition shoot. I'd say that's poetry close
    I disagree completely. I know dudes that have modeled and none of then look anything like this:


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    But this is all JMO, if you feel that you cannot get to the level you need without anabolics then by all means use them.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    I disagree completely. I know dudes that have modeled and none of then look anything like this:



    But this is all JMO, if you feel that you cannot get to the level you need without anabolics then by all means use them.
    You're right man, I definitely don't need to look like a pro. a few agencies already tell me I'm a little bulky as it is. Lol but that doesn't mean I'm going to lose hard earned muscle for them.

  19. Actually, I do want to do my first physique show next year some time God willing. That's always been my true goal ever since I started lifting. Not exactly pro bb, but I suppose it's more comparable than modeling. Hahaha

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats
    Actually, I do want to do my first physique show next year some time God willing. That's always been my true goal ever since I started lifting. Not exactly pro bb, but I suppose it's more comparable than modeling. Hahaha
    As far as physique prep goes there are a good deal of people on here that have done those shows. I lift for performance in relation to my career so I cannot give experience on physique shows, talk to pyrobatt as I believe he's planning on entering a comp soon or organicshadow as I think he's in prep for one now. They will both be willing to help you via PM if you need it.

  21. oh youre doing modelling? i used to do international runway for Tamblyn Models, generally you should be aiming for (depending on your height) 185-205lbs at 10%BF, 205 would be more underwear modelling and commercial grade, 190lbs is generally the ideal weight for someone whos 6ft - 6ft 2. I'd be careful of using any pro-hormones, as anything that can mess with your hair and skin can potentially lose you contracts (and generally its the PH's that are more harsh on your skin and hair), if youre happy with editorial grade modelling you probably wouldnt need to do any PH or AAS to get your goal, as you know your face and attitude is far more important than you body (providing you have 12% BF or under) however, if youve crappy genetics like me and you want to go physique or be 210-225lbs (fitness modelling category) do a bulking cycle like this:
    * Week 1-12 Test E: 250 OR 500mgs p/wk
    * Week 1-10 Masteron E: 500mgs p/wk
    * Week 1-10 Primo E: 400 OR 500 mgs p/wk
    * Week 3-12 HCG 250IU 2X p/wk (if youre still getting an unacceptable amount of ball shrinkage go to 500IU 2Xp/wk)
    * Week 3-12 Arimidex 0.25mg 2X p/wk (this cycle has a very low aromatisation but if your gyno prone and get itchy nips bump to 0.5mg EOD)
    * Week 14-17 Torem 120mg 90mg 60mg 60mg ED
    * Week 14-17 Nolvadex 20mg ED
    * Week 14-17 Osta Rx: 1 tab 3X per day

    Alot of people may think that this is a pretty harsh cycle (and some who do professional powerlifting would consider it weak), but it'll definetly get you that rock-hard 'Rambo & Wolverine' look thats sought after by many fitness scouts (ive got a few fitness modelling buddies that did this cycle as well). The beauty of this cycle is theyre all Enanthate esters and if you feel up to it, you can draw and pin in one go (make sure its the glutes though). As always, joint, liver, skin and hair support supps should always be taken throughout the cycle and pct until side-effects have diminished.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89
    oh youre doing modelling? i used to do international runway for Tamblyn Models, generally you should be aiming for (depending on your height) 185-205lbs at 10%BF, 205 would be more underwear modelling and commercial grade, 190lbs is generally the ideal weight for someone whos 6ft - 6ft 2. I'd be careful of using any pro-hormones, as anything that can mess with your hair and skin can potentially lose you contracts (and generally its the PH's that are more harsh on your skin and hair), if youre happy with editorial grade modelling you probably wouldnt need to do any PH or AAS to get your goal, as you know your face and attitude is far more important than you body (providing you have 12% BF or under) however, if youve crappy genetics like me and you want to go physique or be 210-225lbs (fitness modelling category) do a bulking cycle like this:
    * Week 1-12 Test E: 250 OR 500mgs p/wk
    * Week 1-10 Masteron E: 500mgs p/wk
    * Week 1-10 Primo E: 400 OR 500 mgs p/wk
    * Week 3-12 HCG 250IU 2X p/wk (if youre still getting an unacceptable amount of ball shrinkage go to 500IU 2Xp/wk)
    * Week 3-12 Arimidex 0.25mg 2X p/wk (this cycle has a very low aromatisation but if your gyno prone and get itchy nips bump to 0.5mg EOD)
    * Week 14-17 Torem 120mg 90mg 60mg 60mg ED
    * Week 14-17 Nolvadex 20mg ED
    * Week 14-17 Osta Rx: 1 tab 3X per day

    Alot of people may think that this is a pretty harsh cycle (and some who do professional powerlifting would consider it weak), but it'll definetly get you that rock-hard 'Rambo & Wolverine' look thats sought after by many fitness scouts (ive got a few fitness modelling buddies that did this cycle as well). The beauty of this cycle is theyre all Enanthate esters and if you feel up to it, you can draw and pin in one go (make sure its the glutes though). As always, joint, liver, skin and hair support supps should always be taken throughout the cycle and pct until side-effects have diminished.
    Seems like a lot. Still never answered why you put osta in PCT considering its suppressive and is generally not advised in PCT here.

  23. I'd wait to cycle EPI.. do a long cycle maybe throw in a non methyl

  24. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Seems like a lot. Still never answered why you put osta in PCT considering its suppressive and is generally not advised in PCT here.
    all depends on your perspective, and end goals, osta-rx isnt suppressive, S4 (andarine) is supposedly suppressive at certain dosages, though noones actually put up a clinical study for public viewing besides the one done on rats.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89

    all depends on your perspective, and end goals, osta-rx isnt suppressive, S4 (andarine) is supposedly suppressive at certain dosages, though noones actually put up a clinical study for public viewing besides the one done on rats.
    My understanding of ostarine is that it is mildly suppressive. Not as suppressive as AAS/PH but enough so it could slow your recovery from a cycle.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    My understanding of ostarine is that it is mildly suppressive. Not as suppressive as AAS/PH but enough so it could slow your recovery from a cycle.
    theres been no proof of any suppression of ostarine, theres been alot of people online claiming that andarine causes mild supression (and has been proven to do so in rats), osta-rx is relatively new, and its mixed in with natty test boosters, which makes it perfect for PCT.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL

    those studies that showed some amount human suppression were at 6mg, the ones that showed none were at 3mg. Normal bodybuilding doses are 25-50mg. Saliva tests are crap besides. Rather than have me argue against non-scientificially gathered vague numbers on the internet where a few guys have stated blood tests without any verification of where / when they took them, without any validation of their doses, or timing of anything, how about you show some scientific testing with normal bodybuilding doses that shows no suppression? Just the simple piece that the doses showing no suppression are 1/10th the common dose being used by bodybuilders alone is enough. Herbals that are test boosters can show supression at super high dosing.

    For a bridge, who cares, it is irrelevant. But for PCT you don't want to do anything that risks recovery.
    Recognize this response?

  28. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Recognize this response?
    im not here to argue, i was merely asking for proof of suppression of andarine and ostarine in that thread you quoted, Easy replied with figures from a study he has seen about andarine (not ostarine), and although he did not provide a verified study (just the figures), I'll take him at his word, as he's reputable member. Now, back on topic, if you would like to refute my suggestion of using Osta-RX to use during PCT, please submit some evidence (ie a link to a verified study on ostarine), and i will gladly retract my earlier statement.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89

    im not here to argue, i was merely asking for proof of suppression of andarine and ostarine in that thread you quoted, Easy replied with figures from a study he has seen about andarine (not ostarine), and although he did not provide a verified study (just the figures), I'll take him at his word, as he's reputable member. Now, back on topic, if you would like to refute my suggestion of using Osta-RX to use during PCT, please submit some evidence (ie a link to a verified study on ostarine), and i will gladly retract my earlier statement.
    I'd be interested in your studies that show it isn't suppressive at ~60mgs a day.

    My comments come from the knowledge of those that are much more versed than I on this, which is why I asked about Osta in the first place because I know little about it. But I am also much more inclined to take the word of easy and the other more reputable members before you on this topic, especially when it relates to getting the boys back in action.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I'd be interested in your studies that show it isn't suppressive at ~60mgs a day.

    My comments come from the knowledge of those that are much more versed than I on this, which is why I asked about Osta in the first place because I know little about it. But I am also much more inclined to take the word of easy and the other more reputable members before you on this topic, especially when it relates to getting the boys back in action.
    I have yet to come across any studies to prove that Ostarine isnt suppressive, but neither have i seen ones that prove that is, ive read people say that it can slightly suppress at dosages above 25mg's for longer than 6 weeks (but only an idiot wouldnt realise that if you do anything to excess it will have a negative impact an example would be when people were harping on about how bad nolvadex was for your liver because a study showed that it can cause liver failure in rats when taken at more than 8 times the equivalent human dosage), which is why i asked for proof (also the Osta-RX will be taken for 4 weeks as opposed to 6), if you could provide me with it, like i said before, i will gladly agree with you. If there is no verified proof (and by that i mean an actual study not someone rattling off their own experience, or writing down statistics - and if we were going by conjecture alone SARM's would be the best thing since sliced bread), then all we have is opinions.
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