low dose bread and butter 1st cycle opinions
- 11-15-2004, 05:27 PM
low dose bread and butter 1st cycle opinions
planning first cycle. want to take lowest possible dose for decent results. no need to use high doses especially for first time i think. 5'6" approx 155-160 lbs. very lean and muscular (view realsoundjim's progress in the pics section for an idea) have a few prohormone cycles under belt inc. m1t, s1+, m1,4, 1ad.
Proposed cycle: approx 10 weeks
250 mg's test enanthate/ week (apporx. every 6 days)
200 mg's deca/ week
I was also wondering if i may use m1t the first 3 weeks being that i have it lying around and i didnt want to buy dbol if m1t could fill its place.
I realize that compared to the average doses of the coompounds it may be a little on the low side, however #1 i do not weigh heavy #2 its first cycle #3 im not looking to blow up too much like a balloon.
so hows these numbers sound to you guys. as said b4, check out the pics section before you judge please. thanks guys
- 11-15-2004, 05:33 PM
- 6'1" 240 lbs.
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
- Richmond, VA
- Rep Power
Originally Posted by realsoundjim
for easy access to the pics, realsoundjim's current progress pics sept/oct
anywho, looks good bro. you've definately got some decent size on you, looks like you've been training hard and heavy for a while. should go great for you. a few guys are implementing M1T use instead of dbol nowadays and for good reason. if the sides don't bother you, i say go for it, at least while you're waiting for the other stuff to kick in. good luck on it bro.
- 11-15-2004, 05:39 PM
I would have the test at 400mg. Also if your worried about blowing up like a balloon deca may not be for you. You can most def replace m1t for Dbol. Also I would shoot the test enanth 2 times a week like monday and thurs.
11-15-2004, 05:53 PM
- 6'1" 240 lbs.
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
- Richmond, VA
- Rep Power
haven't used deca but do you think 200mg will bloat him? sounds like a pretty low dose wouldn't effect it too bad but like i said, i haven't used deca so.............Originally Posted by jminis
11-15-2004, 06:18 PM
well i guess i really woupldnt mind a little bloat for the added size. in all actuality however, what i really first was hoping for was equipoise instead of deca. that would have been leaner. but couldnt get that so i went for deca as plan B. I was hopin that by takin a lower dose of deca, i may be able to at least be a lil smaller of a balloon. lol
also im assuming that u guys had no probs with the lower dose of test enanthate that i proposed (250 mg/week). again, my rationale being that stated in my first post above. jmnis, i know that its best to take the test about 5 days apart due to the esters timing, but would it be too bad to wait 7 days each time? the vials i am getting containing 250 so it would be dificult to split 1 amp 2x a week. i just dont want any contamination, spillage, storage probs with the open amp. if i was taking the normal dose of 500 per week it would be easier cuz then its a diff amp per shot, but my lower dosing scheme dont allow for a new amp each time. if its crucial however, i will find a way to split the 250 and do it 125 mg 2x per week.
also, i am also assuming by reading other threads, that i may mix the deca and test in the same syringe so as to only need on injection for both. am i correct in that?
11-15-2004, 09:50 PM
I would suggest that you do 2x a week. Test E has a half life of around 10 days, so imo you really need to be dosing more frequently than e6d. It looks to me like it would be easier just to run the 500mg/week (you will like it), but if you are set on a lower dose maybe get a sterile vial or two and transfer your gear into them. That way you really don't need to worry about how to break up your shots. Just my 2 cents.
11-15-2004, 09:57 PM
If your running test e you need to bump it to at least 400mg/week. The reason being is that your body will shut down its normal production of test shortly after you start your cycle. So you do not have the effect of natty test with the injection. Now most hormone replacement docs go with 200mg/week for patients as a maintance/replacement dose. So basically what you are accomplishing with low dose test is shutting down natural production and just replacing it with the injection. Thus there will be little benefit.
I would recomend 500mg/week of Test E and 400mg/week of Deca for 12 weeks. I would also jump start the cycle with 10mg/day of the M1T you have.
Now since bloat is a concern run Letrozole at .5mg every other day. Keep nolva on hand for signs of gyno.
I am currently running 500mg/week of Test E and 30mg/day of Dbol and with the Letrozole there is really little bloat. My next cycle will be 600mg/week of Test E, 500mg/week of EQ, and 55mg/day of Dbol. I will be running the injections for 12 weeks and the dbol for 4 weeks.
BTW Dude you look cut as hell with good size....Keep it up...add in the AAS and you will grow....
11-15-2004, 10:51 PM
thanks guys. i see what ur sayin about dosing 2x per week, and i also see what u mean about the dosage being on the low side. Im contemplating changin the test to 500 per week in divided doses while i may just leave the deca at 200. anyone else agree or disagree with the lower or higher dosing scheme?
o , and also wanted to double check...in regards to the deca i can take that all at one time poer week, correct? or would i might as well divide those doses like the test as well? and again, i can inject both together at same time in same syringe, yes (i know i know basic. just a little nervous to get it all perfect) i've read it all b4 , but i like to make sure i got it all down to a "t" thanks guys for the help
11-15-2004, 11:17 PM
I would break the deca up just to keep things the same all week. If you have different amounts of oils on different days it just gets confusing. Just figure up a break down for both compounds, that way you are doing the same thing for all of your shots. And yes you can mix two compounds in one syringe.
11-15-2004, 11:35 PM
why bother with the Deca at 200mg/week. Test E @ 500mg/week will be a great first cycle. you won't notice that much from the Deca, and the potential progesterone side's are a bit scary. i personally haven't tried is, so I can't give a definitive answer, but going from what i've read in the last year, 200mg/week isn't enough to warrant the cost of it.
11-16-2004, 02:14 AM
Ive used m1t in the beginning of a test cycle and works nicely for body composition, but being on real test still doesnt fight off the awful m1t sides.
but if i were you, i think the best first cycle is test only.
500mg enanthate. taking 250mg twice weekly, assaid before the half life is only 10 days long so it has to be shot more frequently to maintain constant blood levels.
I would also drop the deca. (not even worth it at that dose). Then I would go and buy some l-dex from a research site, and run it all 10 weeks at .25 mg/day, so you dont get bloated and remain dry and vascular. That very simple and cheap $ cycle would make you very happy.
11-16-2004, 06:50 AM
very informative advice by all. really? the 200 of deca would be too low huh. ive been a lil stubborn to stay at that dose cuz when i read about the dosing schemes it has said that 200-400 is optimal. so i was figuring 200 would still be ok. but if everyone is really against that maybe i shall rethink my whole cycle by either bumpin up the test and droppin the deca or by bumpin up the deca. i also read somehwere that in a cycle as this, if you wanted to increase its potency you would just raise the test and leave the deca alone. its very confusing with all the conflicting info, but thanks again as i will try to make an educated choice based on all you guys info
11-16-2004, 08:03 AM
You can get anabolic effects from deca in doses as low as 100mg/week. It just isn't optimum for what you are trying to achieve. Another thing is that many people who say they do not like deca, have never tried deca. It's a documented proven performer among AAS. I think the test could be a little higher, I think you will get something from the deca at 200mg/week, but 300-400mg/week would be better. You will get out of it what you put into it in diet and training, and from your pics that seems to be in line Bro. Good luck.
11-16-2004, 10:28 AM
I agree with serengo, if you really want to add the deca @ 200, go for it. There has been quite a lot of talk about low dose cycles and their effectiveness lately on some other boards. I have also read somewhere that 300mg/week is usually a good fairly low starting point. If you really want to add another androgen you could always add 600 -1000mgs 1-Test Cyp to your test. Just some suggestions.
11-16-2004, 12:08 PM
I would try staggering it abit for say 8 weeks like this:
week1 250 test, 200deca
week2 same as week 1
week 3 same as week1
week 4 500 test, 400 deca
week 5 same as week4
week6 thru 8 same as week 1
then PCT for 3-4 weeks and now hit another 8 week with something like
Prop and eq this time. I always see good results in people I do this with.
11-16-2004, 12:58 PM
I, for one, believe in first timers starting out on low doses. Nobody knows how they may react to certain androgens. Everybody is different. There is always time to increase doses.
Also, normal HRT doses are not usually 200mg a week (obviously some doctors may practice different methods).
just my 2cc
11-17-2004, 07:16 AM
If it was me, I would just do my first cycle with one type of aas, just to see how I reacted to it. That way you can asses your reactions, good and bad.
11-17-2004, 11:11 AM
Good advise -2z-....there is always next cycle...
11-23-2004, 03:20 PM
if a low dose of 250 week test en with the 200 of deca was chosen (i want to run the test at 500 as some of you suggest, but hypothetically if i HAD to only use 250 per week....) would a wise choice be to front load the first 2 weeks with short acting esters before i start the long acting esters. for instance would it be better to use say sust or omni for the 1st 2 weeks? and then begin the enanthate. i was thinkin this would be better to allow for a build up of test right from the start. since the test is a low dose i would imagine it woulkd be best to front load. does tthis seem correct?
11-23-2004, 04:02 PM
if you are going to kickstart it i wouldn't use sust or omni i'd use prop
and i'd start the enan at the same time so after 3 weeks when you stopped the prop the enan would just be kicking in
if you wait until you stop using the short ester to start the longer ester you're going to a few weeks in between with nothing really
11-23-2004, 08:54 PM
of course prop would be optimal being that it is entirley a short ester, however, if prop cannot be obtained would it still be worth it to use the sust or omni, understanding that they are made up of short medium and long esters of course. or is there really not enough of the shorter ester in the mix to warrant its use as a frontloader
11-23-2004, 11:27 PM
This cycle is too low. I am conservative with cycle dosages but this is not enough. It is possible that you may respond great and grow off of such a low dosage, however, I believe a more likely scenario will be disappointment. If you are going to risk using iAAS, then you should at least use an dosage that will most likely be effective. If you want to use relatively low dosages, then double the testosterone and keep the deca as is. If you want to use an orla, then I would choose something other than methyl1test.Originally Posted by realsoundjim
Stay away from the anti-e's unless it is necessary. Far to often, individuals will opt for using an anti-e simply to combat temporary bloating. As long as blood pressure does not become an issue and estrogenic sides are not being displayed, do not take anything. Estrogen is useful.
11-24-2004, 06:22 AM
Originally Posted by size
That could not have better said. If your going to taste the forbidden fruit then you might as well have a serving of it.
11-24-2004, 10:46 AM
thanks for all the help. 500/week test en it is then. doin it right.
11-24-2004, 03:13 PM
Right ****in on man. I hear everybody bashin deca- "Sides are too bad, you get limp dick, takes forever to recover, i grew a 6th finger... well, ive never taken it, but thats what im told..." **** That! Im taking deca right now, and I can speak FROM FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE its a good compound if used correctly. Get some bromocriptine or Dostinex to run with it for prolactin sides, and maybe run Winny at the end to combat any potential progesterone sides and to harden up. However you do it, dont listen to advice from people who have no firsthand experience with the ****... It didnt get to be known as most pro bb's drug of choice because it sucks.Originally Posted by serengo
11-24-2004, 03:36 PM
I have had first hand experience with it also.. and personally, I think it does suck.. I had worse sides from it than I have had from tren.. and before you said I screwed up the way I was using it.. I was running correctly..
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