Orals: single dosing vs. spreadout

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    Quote Originally Posted by NADDANME View Post
    Question then what is the half life of Hdrol I been thinking of doing split doses on my current run but worried about insomnia if I take second dose to late in day
    it can cause insomnia , i never got it though. but you know we all respond differently

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    The point of this topic was to start a dialogue. I did not ask for help or advice for anything i am personally doing. That dude kept responding with questions about my goals, and what particular compounds i was taking, etc. He was missing the point of my post. I started this topic because of imformation i've read going against the common practice of all day dosing. Just getting more opinions for topic's sake--not my sake.
    All day dosing is a preference, some guys do it and some dont, you learn different things when you cycle. and you change things up. I like splitting my dose up, based on the ph's half life, also if its keeping me up ill dose it earlier in the day instead of night, so many variables guy. its a live and learning experience, each cycle teaches you something. does this fit your 'Discussion'.. where did you read this info on 'Going against the common practice of all day dosing'?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightclub2012 View Post
    All day dosing is a preference, some guys do it and some dont, you learn different things when you cycle. and you change things up. I like splitting my dose up, based on the ph's half life, also if its keeping me up ill dose it earlier in the day instead of night, so many variables guy. its a live and learning experience, each cycle teaches you something. does this fit your 'Discussion'.. where did you read this info on 'Going against the common practice of all day dosing'?
    Dan Duchaine and Bill Llewelyn. The following is a post from another topic, from member "EasyEJL":

    "the half life is 100% irrelevant, for a pile of reasons".

    "lets start with - naturally without anabolics, your low point of the day testosterone level wise is close to half what your high level is. So when you start to talk about "keeping constant blood levels" its pointless as even your natural levels arent' anywhere near constant. going past that, it may have some amount of value as to how you feel (vs how it affects anabolically) to have more stable levels, but in your case the testosterone is the base hormone covering that, so the overall androgen levels are going to stay well above normal human threshhold 24 hours a day as it is".

    Beyond that, one that is interesting and only a smidgen of research has been done on it is the idea of threshhold effects. This was always a concept that made me wonder. Its easier to give something else as an example though. If you take a 2:1:1 BCAA, and put 20g total in a bunch of water, and sip it over 2 hours, it gives very little anabolic effect. If you take 10g each hour and put it down in the span of a couple minutes, it exerts a fairly big muscle protein synthesis effect. There is a certain level you have to reach to have any effect, and its not neccessarily that a certain % of the product will be lost/metabolised without adding value, but that a certain net amount of it will be in a given timespan. There was I believe 1 study done on it that was not really all that well done (number of people participating, no clear control, etc) back in the 60s that showed that with dbol effectively the first 2-3 mg you take in an hour has next to no effect. So if you were dosing it as 5mg every hour for 8 hours, you got significantly lower effectiveness out of it than taking all 40mg at once".

    I then asked "EasyEJL" if he doses his orals (no matter what it is) all at once, and he replied "yes".
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    So more research needs to be done on dosing all day, .. if u ever did SD and dose 30mgs all at once you would feel some anxiety and sort of blurred vision, increased blood pressure, that's what happened to me, its very toxic you know, also it made me feel high and real horny too lol. so I split my dose up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightclub2012 View Post
    So more research needs to be done on dosing all day, .. if u ever did SD and dose 30mgs all at once you would feel some anxiety and sort of blurred vision, increased blood pressure, that's what happened to me, its very toxic you know, also it made me feel high and real horny too lol. so I split my dose up.
    when I dosed 40mg of superdrol (original designer supplements) all at once, I felt no anxiety, no blurred vision, blood pressure increased about as much as it would from eating a salted soft pretzel (around 5 points each systolic/diastolic). main side was horrible back pumps during deadlifts
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    Dan Duchaine and Bill Llewelyn. The following is a post from another topic, from member "EasyEJL":

    "the half life is 100% irrelevant, for a pile of reasons".

    "lets start with - naturally without anabolics, your low point of the day testosterone level wise is close to half what your high level is. So when you start to talk about "keeping constant blood levels" its pointless as even your natural levels arent' anywhere near constant. going past that, it may have some amount of value as to how you feel (vs how it affects anabolically) to have more stable levels, but in your case the testosterone is the base hormone covering that, so the overall androgen levels are going to stay well above normal human threshhold 24 hours a day as it is".

    Beyond that, one that is interesting and only a smidgen of research has been done on it is the idea of threshhold effects. This was always a concept that made me wonder. Its easier to give something else as an example though. If you take a 2:1:1 BCAA, and put 20g total in a bunch of water, and sip it over 2 hours, it gives very little anabolic effect. If you take 10g each hour and put it down in the span of a couple minutes, it exerts a fairly big muscle protein synthesis effect. There is a certain level you have to reach to have any effect, and its not neccessarily that a certain % of the product will be lost/metabolised without adding value, but that a certain net amount of it will be in a given timespan. There was I believe 1 study done on it that was not really all that well done (number of people participating, no clear control, etc) back in the 60s that showed that with dbol effectively the first 2-3 mg you take in an hour has next to no effect. So if you were dosing it as 5mg every hour for 8 hours, you got significantly lower effectiveness out of it than taking all 40mg at once".

    I then asked "EasyEJL" if he doses his orals (no matter what it is) all at once, and he replied "yes".
    With a compound (with reasonable half life), soon after regular dosing, you achieve steady peak levels.

    The post that you quoted has no merit aside from the two reputable names. Name dropping does not make it any less or more valid. Data is valid.

    Additionally, you have misquoted Easy. He stated "it depends" and "I think dosing orals all at once is better." His anecdotal evidence doesn't persuade me either way.

    Here is some food for thought for you and your discussion. Suppose single dose is better. Would I dose before or after my workout and why or why not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL

    when I dosed 40mg of superdrol (original designer supplements) all at once, I felt no anxiety, no blurred vision, blood pressure increased about as much as it would from eating a salted soft pretzel (around 5 points each systolic/diastolic). main side was horrible back pumps during deadlifts
    like I said we all respond differently, I got some nasty back pumps too from a higher dose.
    that experience was also my secondsd cycle and (fogot to mention) I slacked a little with my support supps and my water intake, so I guess my take on dosing all at once is out the window. lol
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    yeah, the particulars there was from someone on TRT, where they have a baseline of testosterone. I would lean more the other way of multiple doses at least for the shorter half life compounds like dbol without TRT behind it. With halo or ones that have 12+ half lifes, i'd still think single dose on waking would be best.

    And then too, for me sides have been close to nonexistent on anything outside of acne and back pumps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL
    yeah, the particulars there was from someone on TRT, where they have a baseline of testosterone. I would lean more the other way of multiple doses at least for the shorter half life compounds like dbol without TRT behind it. With halo or ones that have 12+ half lifes, i'd still think single dose on waking would be best.

    And then too, for me sides have been close to nonexistent on anything outside of acne and back pumps.
    I'm gonna try a single dose first thing every morning, currently on SD, on my 5th day of 4 weeker. see how I respond, I'm not slacking on support supps ,water intake or, diet, gymming hard and smart.. on a lean bulk
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightclub2012 View Post
    I'm gonna try a single dose first thing every morning, currently on SD, on my 5th day of 4 weeker. see how I respond, I'm not slacking on support supps ,water intake or, diet, gymming hard and smart.. on a lean bulk
    How much sd are you taking? If only 10mg, first thing in the morning may make sense to help with suppression. This probably wouldn't work with a greater dose. For 20mg, I'd take it all pre-workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrysiii

    How much sd are you taking? If only 10mg, first thing in the morning may make sense to help with suppression. This probably wouldn't work with a greater dose. For 20mg, I'd take it all pre-workout.
    I'm doing 10/20/20/30
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightclub2012 View Post
    So more research needs to be done on dosing all day, .. if u ever did SD and dose 30mgs all at once you would feel some anxiety and sort of blurred vision, increased blood pressure, that's what happened to me, its very toxic you know, also it made me feel high and real horny too lol. so I split my dose up.
    mmmmmmmmm.....i like the high and horny part of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    With a compound with reasonable half life), soon after regular dosing you achieve steady peak levels (with a compound with reasonable half life).

    The post that you quoted has no merit aside from the two reputable names. Name dropping does not make it any less or more valid. Data is valid.

    Additionally, you have misquoted Easy. He stated "it depends" and "I think dosing orals all at once is better." His anecdotal evidence doesn't persuade me either way.

    Here is some food for thought for you and your discussion. Suppose single dose is better. Would I dose before or after my workout and why or why not?
    Get off my d!ck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightclub2012 View Post
    it can cause insomnia , i never got it though. but you know we all respond differently
    That what I'm dealing with on my current cycle going to a split dose actually has made it better first dose at 6:30 am second dose at 2:00 pm and the insomnia is less than both at 6:30.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NADDANME
    That what I'm dealing with on my current cycle going to a split dose actually has made it better first dose at 6:30 am second dose at 2:00 pm and the insomnia is less than both at 6:30.
    cool, NADDANME, If it works for you, keep it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    Get off my d!ck.
    Is that all, or is there more?
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    From experience I'll say 50mg of var at once gave me a headache and spiked my bp a lot but splitting it up 30/20 helped with that aspect as for gains I have no idea...I'm sure the steady stream of test E has my bases covered when it comes to blood levels
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    Quote Originally Posted by howwedo107 View Post
    From experience I'll say 50mg of var at once gave me a headache and spiked my bp a lot but splitting it up 30/20 helped with that aspect as for gains I have no idea...I'm sure the steady stream of test E has my bases covered when it comes to blood levels
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    Get off my d!ck.
    Anything more from you little girl and I'll escort you from the the dance the way you arrived...alone. Am I clear?
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn
    Anything more from you little girl and I'll escort you from the the dance the way you arrived...alone. Am I clear?
    Sounds like a Clint Eastwood movie line
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Anything more from you little girl and I'll escort you from the the dance the way you arrived...alone. Am I clear?
    Drop your wierd obsession with me--it's unbecoming. However, I digress.
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    Sub'd for the final verdict... next thing ya know I'm gunna have to break out a mirror and a razor blade to divide up my 10mg SD caps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonsterTruckr
    Sub'd for the final verdict... next thing ya know I'm gunna have to break out a mirror and a razor blade to divide up my 10mg SD caps.
    Just stick a cap in your bung hole for sustained release and maximum absorption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    Drop your wierd obsession with me--it's unbecoming. However, I digress.
    I have no obsession. "Unbecoming?" "Get off my d1ck" and your BS private message kind of gets my attention...not in a good way.

    So, in line with the topic of discussion within this thread, answer the question.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Here is some food for thought for you and your discussion. Suppose single dose is better. Would I dose before or after my workout and why or why not?
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    good question David.
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    No one can answer that question dunn, is like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

    The world may never know.
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    i'd say before, at least 30-60 min before. Solely because in that way you are guaranteed having the compound in your system for whatever androgenic effects it has.

    Figure either you are shut down with minimal natural testosterone so the compound is your only androgen or you are running testosterone alongside and then still the two would be additive.
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    Just for discussion sake:

    When does the "anabolism" of a workout actually take place? Post workout, during recovery(?).

    When does the "anabolism" of anabolics actually take place? We know they increase nutrient/protein synthesis. Again...post workout, during recovery(?).

    Some have suggested that dosing it after your workout would be the most "anabolic/anabolism" window as that is when the process of recovery is and where and when nutrient/protein synthesis would be most beneficial.

    Some have suggested that dosing it before your workout would be the most "advantageous" window as it can increase aggression (androgenic) and in turn increase perfromance. It does not necessarily negate the nutrient/protein synthesis but imagine it is diminished depending upon the half-life and how soon and much you can eat after workouts.

    I have my opinion or preference but thought I would toss this out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL
    i'd say before, at least 30-60 min before. Solely because in that way you are guaranteed having the compound in your system for whatever androgenic effects it has.

    Figure either you are shut down with minimal natural testosterone so the compound is your only androgen or you are running testosterone alongside and then still the two would be additive.
    so basically if your doin SD at 20mgs(or whatever your dosing) you would take it all at once 30-60min before your session, and on off days split it..
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightclub2012 View Post
    so basically if your doin SD at 20mgs(or whatever your dosing) you would take it all at once 30-60min before your session, and on off days split it..
    if you are running a test base or on TRT i wouldn't bother splitting it off days either.
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