Beginner looking to do first PH Cycle; here's the plan....

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  1. Beginner looking to do first PH Cycle; here's the plan....


    Sup guys, I've never used PH's before and I do NOT want to hurt myself. I was a youngster and couldn't use them back in the day when they were all the rage; I remember Old T-Bomb and Andro and some other stuff that was out when I was new to the supplement game. Anyways, I'm 25 now and was lifting consistently up until about 2 months or so ago when I messed up both of my hamstrings. SO....I haven't been in the gym as much, needless to say.

    I want to continue to drop body fat (I'm using fish oil, CLA, Zycor by Bioquest, as well as Compound 20 by USP Labs) As well as add some decent muscle. I use whey protein, Occasionally Casein, and a multi vitamin; I plan on working creatine back into the routine as well as beta alenine with my pre/and post workout supplementation which I haven't decided on yet.

    Anyways, I've just given you my foundation; it's solid and works, but I'd like some faster results, bottom line.

    So far my plan is to use Phenylvar (an epistane stack) with CEL Cycle support, and for PCT I plan on running either Erase Pro and CEL Cycle Support (just to keep up the cleansing; PCT's can be toxic too) OR using CEL PCT Assist. I also want to run a joint formula by MHP called Relieve, just in case I'm someone who would be prone to joint issues while using this stuff. Phenylvar supposedly has a low estrogen conversion rate, and isn't all that toxic, but This being my first rodeo, I don't wanna take any chances.


    I'm trying to keep things mild, I don't want to try Superdrol or Dianavar or anything else Super Ultra Supreme beast mode lol, this is a first try and I have no clue how these things'll affect me, especially as I try to supplement with my base stack as well. I won't lie, I'm actually really reluctant about all of this. I do want to see VERY serious results, but man, manipulating hormones is nothin' ya wanna screw with if ya don't know what the HECK you're doin, and I won't lie, I'm not completely clueless, but I don't know what is enough and not enough cycle and PCT support. I'm a college student with no career still, so I'm not loaded with dollars and I don't want to spend a crap ton of money, ya know?

    Anyways, could you guys please point me in the right direction?

    So sorry to be so ignorant, but you've gotta start somewhere....


  2. Epistane is fine for a first run at it.
    Your pct needs help though. You cannot run an OTC pct after a ph cycle you need a serm (nolvadex or clomid) from a research chemical site in order to make a full recovery. Do some look into serms to get an idea about them
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  3. Supposedly an extract in Erase PRO is supposed to act as a SERM; it's called Boerhaavia diffusa extract.

    Regardless, I will most certainly look into them, thank you!

  4. Erase Pro is not a SERM.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by nonstophero
    Supposedly an extract in Erase PRO is supposed to act as a SERM; it's called Boerhaavia diffusa extract.

    Regardless, I will most certainly look into them, thank you!
    No problem. But no erase pro can be run as an AI but is not really qualified as a serm. You need pharm quality or you could have a painful damaging recovery during pct.
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  6. Certanly youll recover without a Serm but why risk it? epi is one of the few compounds that can be run without using a SERM for PCT but again this will hurt your gains and if you dont recover quickly youll be in trouble. Id usw clomid atleast at 25 true mgs . Ideal standard is 50 mgs. Oh and if you dont use a SERM get a Good OTC TRS by primordial performance is your best bet

  7. Okay, so I take it that a TRS is a Testosterone Recovery stack...That junk aint cheap, but anything for my body to recover properly lol. I'm not going to ask, but I have no idea about how to go about getting a TRUE SERM....That's about the only "hole" in the plan I can see for the time being.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by nonstophero
    Okay, so I take it that a TRS is a Testosterone Recovery stack...That junk aint cheap, but anything for my body to recover properly lol. I'm not going to ask, but I have no idea about how to go about getting a TRUE SERM....That's about the only "hole" in the plan I can see for the time being.
    Google research chemical sites and take your pick of what looks legit. Look for nolva or clomid and purchase it.

  9. God... some of the advice here is horrible..

    you will need a serm man, you dont want estro rebound after. Just because this compoud isnt as harsh as others, does NOT mean you dont need serm. Only an uneducated idiot will tell you otherwise. When dealing with hormonal products, do your research and do it right, or else dont do it at all.

    You have no business cycling without a proper pct, every ph cycle needs a right pct. Stop cutting corners and do it right OP.

    If using clomid
    25/12.5/12.5/12.5

    nolv
    30/30/20/20

    Add in a test booster too. DAA preferably

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Superman_777
    God... some of the advice here is horrible..

    you will need a serm man, you dont want estro rebound after. Just because this compoud isnt as harsh as others, does NOT mean you dont need serm. Only an uneducated idiot will tell you otherwise. When dealing with hormonal products, do your research and do it right, or else dont do it at all.

    You have no business cycling without a proper pct, every ph cycle needs a right pct. Stop cutting corners and do it right OP.

    If using clomid
    25/12.5/12.5/12.5

    nolv
    30/30/20/20

    Add in a test booster too. DAA preferably
    100% agree! Your already fukin with your hormones by running a cycle, I don't understand why people get afraid of using a SERM!
    I guess if you had a bad experience but there are options now, nolva, clomid, torem...
    USE SERMS

  11. Nolva dosage higher then clomid dosage.........

    Incorrect to say the least. Clomid 100/50/50/25 or 50/50/50/50 the dosage you just described is lower then its usage as a anti-sterility drug which is 25mg daily for 3 months. I assume you have never used clomid if those are the doses you are recommending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superman_777 View Post
    God... some of the advice here is horrible..

    you will need a serm man, you dont want estro rebound after. Just because this compoud isnt as harsh as others, does NOT mean you dont need serm. Only an uneducated idiot will tell you otherwise. When dealing with hormonal products, do your research and do it right, or else dont do it at all.

    You have no business cycling without a proper pct, every ph cycle needs a right pct. Stop cutting corners and do it right OP.

    If using clomid
    25/12.5/12.5/12.5

    nolv
    30/30/20/20

    Add in a test booster too. DAA preferably
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Superman_777 View Post
    God... some of the advice here is horrible..

    you will need a serm man, you dont want estro rebound after. Just because this compoud isnt as harsh as others, does NOT mean you dont need serm. Only an uneducated idiot will tell you otherwise. When dealing with hormonal products, do your research and do it right, or else dont do it at all.

    You have no business cycling without a proper pct, every ph cycle needs a right pct. Stop cutting corners and do it right OP.

    If using clomid
    25/12.5/12.5/12.5

    nolv
    30/30/20/20

    Add in a test booster too. DAA preferably
    HAHAHAHAHAHA and my advice is horrible?... inform yourself man.... 30 mgs of nolva? seriously... and 12.5 of clomid???? some advice on here is STUPID ... also please read a bit more, you are just giving advice on using a SERM as if it were vitamins... we are not talking about superdrol, anadrol, dbol or tren to say that it will suppress him to 0... we are talking about fkn epistane.... and i didnt say he shouldnt run a SERM i said, it wasnt the end of the world, and that it would be better to use it, but if not, then TRS would be a great choice... next time you call my advices horrible, give some good advices with a good back up, because for your advice, you are no match for me, you just spit info and you only repeat what you read on fkn boards.... not everyone is right, READ !

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Superman_777 View Post
    God... some of the advice here is horrible..

    you will need a serm man, you dont want estro rebound after. Just because this compoud isnt as harsh as others, does NOT mean you dont need serm. Only an uneducated idiot will tell you otherwise. When dealing with hormonal products, do your research and do it right, or else dont do it at all.

    You have no business cycling without a proper pct, every ph cycle needs a right pct. Stop cutting corners and do it right OP.

    If using clomid
    25/12.5/12.5/12.5

    nolv
    30/30/20/20

    Add in a test booster too. DAA preferably
    You act like if you don't use a serm you will have rebound issues 100% of the time, that is incorrect. You're making broad generalizations, stop. OTC PCT has it's place, and if you don't understand why you clearly lack the knowledge of AAS and bodily functions.

    Not to mention the information you posted is incorrect, check your dosages friend.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Rhadam View Post
    You act like if you don't use a serm you will have rebound issues 100% of the time, that is incorrect. You're making broad generalizations, stop. OTC PCT has it's place, and if you don't understand why you clearly lack the knowledge of AAS and bodily functions.

    Not to mention the information you posted is incorrect, check your dosages friend.
    totally agree!... these kind of idiots are a kick in the balls to us... they advice a SERM for everything as if they were vitamins and if you dont use em the world will fall ... this type of guys give us users a bad name. sometimes i get annoyed when i read this kind of "advices"... now it is true that there are some compounds that can suppress you to almost 0 , and superdrol or tren is an example so a SERM is crucial, or you will suffer big time, lose gains, ect. ive seen studies of guys running anadrol and equi, they test levels drop, obviously, but recover after 3 months without a SERM and sometime s6 months thats a lot of time, so yeah a SERM is important, specially for 10 weekers and beyond... anyways im not explaining this "superman" worthless guy, as he called my advice "horrible", so he can take all the SERMs he wants at pathetic dosages even after a simple DHEA 6 weeker

    Just we need to understand theres guys that:

    1.- Dont have any pharma grade SERMs on hand

    2.- without pharma grade, not everyone wants to use a chemical that is labeled "not for human consumption"

    3.- want to avoid legal issues

    the list goes on.

    i can extend big time, but i think most guys get me, Rhadam, i owe you reps!

  15. I'm not sure he was directing that at you ken, sounded like he was saying in general. I hope he was atleast cause you said nothing wrong. I did not even see the clomid dose lol, yeah pretty useless what he recommended for that lol.

  16. I personally use SERMs with every cycle but to be fair the most mild cycle I have run was dimethazine for 4 weeks. Also I like to spoil my balls.


    Quote Originally Posted by KenTheEagle View Post
    totally agree!... these kind of idiots are a kick in the balls to us... they advice a SERM for everything as if they were vitamins and if you dont use em the world will fall ... this type of guys give us users a bad name. sometimes i get annoyed when i read this kind of "advices"... now it is true that there are some compounds that can suppress you to almost 0 , and superdrol or tren is an example so a SERM is crucial, or you will suffer big time, lose gains, ect. ive seen studies of guys running anadrol and equi, they test levels drop, obviously, but recover after 3 months without a SERM and sometime s6 months thats a lot of time, so yeah a SERM is important, specially for 10 weekers and beyond... anyways im not explaining this "superman" worthless guy, as he called my advice "horrible", so he can take all the SERMs he wants at pathetic dosages even after a simple DHEA 6 weeker

    Just we need to understand theres guys that:

    1.- Dont have any pharma grade SERMs on hand

    2.- without pharma grade, not everyone wants to use a chemical that is labeled "not for human consumption"

    3.- want to avoid legal issues

    the list goes on.

    i can extend big time, but i think most guys get me, Rhadam, i owe you reps!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Mitch5 View Post
    I'm not sure he was directing that at you ken, sounded like he was saying in general. I hope he was atleast cause you said nothing wrong. I did not even see the clomid dose lol, yeah pretty useless what he recommended for that lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil View Post
    I personally use SERMs with every cycle but to be fair the most mild cycle I have run was dimethazine for 4 weeks. Also I like to spoil my balls.
    LOL im pretty sure he did, i can be a jerk sometimes also ive been angry since i couldnt find bac water, i think i was scammed by a fkn RC company, and then i read that comment with those dosage protocols haha. i got annoyed, but yeah i feel you. im also very paranoid with suppression, thats why i dont dare to run a 12 weeker of test without HCG, or superdrol without a SERM... and well, we cannot compare an epi 6 weeker with those kind of cycles, no way!... altho as i said, it just depends on you when choosing a compound and PCT, if you have access to it, if you want to. the OP clearly talked about his concerns regarding a SERM and im pretty sure he chose epistane because of that (atleast thats what i want to think LMAO), i also read a list of the few compounds that can be mild on the HPTA than others, halodrol is an example as well... while theres others that can fk you up. we all should study EXTENSIVELY the compound we will use and choose the best to us, we have no excuses, we need to do research.

  18. ok this thread seems to be hijacked with argument so I'll spoon feed you

    ok first off if your 5'10 and 275 i think you should try to loose some weight. try for 240 which should be easy with proper diet and cardio. but with your hamstring injury idk.

    reason being the higher fat% you are = more risk for gyno
    dont believe what you hear about epi being able to cure gyno or that it cant happen on epi...it's bs
    Epistane is more of a cutting ph if that was your goal.

    funny how no one asked what his dosage will be but if it's your first time i'd go 30/30/30/40/40. if you start noticing sides drop back down to 30mg it takes 2 weeks for it to normally kick in. stay at 4 weeks if you want since it's your first time but honestly don't expect huge results from your first cycle in general.

    now you said you don't want to spend that much money but honestly if you dont have any support supps on hand it's going to get pricey. you said you had a few, fishoil and a multi which is good but make sure you have enough.
    for this cycle you will need a few support supps
    cissus/ joint support
    milk thistle/ whatever liver support of your preference
    taurine for back pumps
    i'd recommend fishoil
    a solid multi

    plus you need to up your protein intake while on a cycle to maximize results so more powder or more food is more money

    theres no need to buy brand name stuff so with that said it is cheaper but still adds up.

    pct
    clomid, torem or nolva. I've never used torem so I dont know about dosing on that.
    if you dont know where to get a chem I am literally looking at an add for a chem website in the forum as i'm writing this and has a coupon code am10 which members of this site get 10 percent off. DONT DO A CYCLE WITHOUT A SERM.

    with my last cycle I used epi and tren and my pct was
    clomid 100 for the first 3 days then 75/75/50/25 and I finished a little over a week ago and I'm fine
    if you want to do nolva i'd do 40 for days 1 and 2 then 30/30/20/20
    erase 1/2/3/3/3/2/1
    some people really believe in using a natty test booster, by all means it help but as long you you have a good serm it's not a necessity.Now i started using daa but my nipples puffed again when I started so i discontinued it and i've been reading it happens sometimes. but if you want to use it start it maybe 2 weeks out from end of cycle and run it 3/3/3/3/3/3. it takes 2 weeks to kick in thats why.

    this is what I would do if I where you but you need to lose weight and do more research. maybe look in the cycle info tab. there's tons of epistane logs on there you can look at as well as logs on first time users as well.

    good luck and again do more research.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by LITERaCOLA
    ok this thread seems to be hijacked with argument so I'll spoon feed you

    ok first off if your 5'10 and 275 i think you should try to loose some weight. try for 240 which should be easy with proper diet and cardio. but with your hamstring injury idk.

    reason being the higher fat% you are = more risk for gyno
    dont believe what you hear about epi being able to cure gyno or that it cant happen on epi...it's bs
    Epistane is more of a cutting ph if that was your goal.

    funny how no one asked what his dosage will be but if it's your first time i'd go 30/30/30/40/40. if you start noticing sides drop back down to 30mg it takes 2 weeks for it to normally kick in. stay at 4 weeks if you want since it's your first time but honestly don't expect huge results from your first cycle in general.

    now you said you don't want to spend that much money but honestly if you dont have any support supps on hand it's going to get pricey. you said you had a few, fishoil and a multi which is good but make sure you have enough.
    for this cycle you will need a few support supps
    cissus/ joint support
    milk thistle/ whatever liver support of your preference
    taurine for back pumps
    i'd recommend fishoil
    a solid multi

    plus you need to up your protein intake while on a cycle to maximize results so more powder or more food is more money

    theres no need to buy brand name stuff so with that said it is cheaper but still adds up.

    pct
    clomid, torem or nolva. I've never used torem so I dont know about dosing on that.
    if you dont know where to get a chem I am literally looking at an add for a chem website in the forum as i'm writing this and has a coupon code am10 which members of this site get 10 percent off. DONT DO A CYCLE WITHOUT A SERM.

    with my last cycle I used epi and tren and my pct was
    clomid 100 for the first 3 days then 75/75/50/25 and I finished a little over a week ago and I'm fine
    if you want to do nolva i'd do 40 for days 1 and 2 then 30/30/20/20
    erase 1/2/3/3/3/2/1
    some people really believe in using a natty test booster, by all means it help but as long you you have a good serm it's not a necessity.Now i started using daa but my nipples puffed again when I started so i discontinued it and i've been reading it happens sometimes. but if you want to use it start it maybe 2 weeks out from end of cycle and run it 3/3/3/3/3/3. it takes 2 weeks to kick in thats why.

    this is what I would do if I where you but you need to lose weight and do more research. maybe look in the cycle info tab. there's tons of epistane logs on there you can look at as well as logs on first time users as well.

    good luck and again do more research.
    Good stuff here

  20. Quote Originally Posted by KenTheEagle

    LOL im pretty sure he did, i can be a jerk sometimes also ive been angry since i couldnt find bac water, i think i was scammed by a fkn RC company, and then i read that comment with those dosage protocols haha. i got annoyed, but yeah i feel you. im also very paranoid with suppression, thats why i dont dare to run a 12 weeker of test without HCG, or superdrol without a SERM... and well, we cannot compare an epi 6 weeker with those kind of cycles, no way!... altho as i said, it just depends on you when choosing a compound and PCT, if you have access to it, if you want to. the OP clearly talked about his concerns regarding a SERM and im pretty sure he chose epistane because of that (atleast thats what i want to think LMAO), i also read a list of the few compounds that can be mild on the HPTA than others, halodrol is an example as well... while theres others that can fk you up. we all should study EXTENSIVELY the compound we will use and choose the best to us, we have no excuses, we need to do research.
    Yeah what the hell is up with the bac water deal??
    Was wanting to run a peptide but looks like that is screwed

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Mitch5 View Post
    Yeah what the hell is up with the bac water deal??
    Was wanting to run a peptide but looks like that is screwed
    Fkn bac water will be avaiable until 2013, can you believe it? :S... fkn ridiculous... i guess ill stick with plain sterile water, and not letting it more than 30 days, and say my prayers to not get an infection LMAO ... will probably add benzyl alcohol if possible, still doing researchon that, but i guess that bac water is a no... and im honestly not delaying it until 2013

  22. Quote Originally Posted by KenTheEagle

    Fkn bac water will be avaiable until 2013, can you believe it? :S... fkn ridiculous... i guess ill stick with plain sterile water, and not letting it more than 30 days, and say my prayers to not get an infection LMAO ... will probably add benzyl alcohol if possible, still doing researchon that, but i guess that bac water is a no... and im honestly not delaying it until 2013
    Jeez... Do you know the reason for it not being available until 2013??

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Mitch5 View Post
    Jeez... Do you know the reason for it not being available until 2013??
    Apparently theres a nation backorder, thats what they said. due to high demand, the production will take long, some say that since it is a cheap item is not produced fast, because the supplier also produce other pharmaceutical items considered more "productive"... but theres something smelly as well, all i can say is i hope they dont stop producing it.

    Note: some say there was so much demand, that some people were selling it for ridiculous high prices

  24. Too be honest production costs were probably dirt cheap. Start up cost would be a bit costly (needing either a ozone machine, or an autoclave of decent size). But benzyl alcohol and water are cheap as hell. Also you would need filters but they are not too pricey.

    Quote Originally Posted by KenTheEagle View Post
    Apparently theres a nation backorder, thats what they said. due to high demand, the production will take long, some say that since it is a cheap item is not produced fast, because the supplier also produce other pharmaceutical items considered more "productive"... but theres something smelly as well, all i can say is i hope they dont stop producing it.

    Note: some say there was so much demand, that some people were selling it for ridiculous high prices
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards

  25. I don't mind my thread being hijacked at all, I love reading the info lol. Anyways, Like I said, I have a very solid stack to begin with, I just wanted to play with some hormones. Anyways, I was going to stay at 30 on the Phenylvar for 4 weeks, maybe i'll go 6. I may actually just use 4 Chloro. I want a dry prohormone as opposed to wet. And yes, I need to lose some weight, but 5' 10 270 ( that's what I weigh now) on most guys sounds like a pig. I'm not at all, at 230 i'll be under 10% body fat, people who guess my weight are in absolute shock when they find out how heavy I am. Point is, I'm not butter ball by any means at all. I have 18 inch arms and 30 inch legs lol, I played football all through highschool and I started training at a D1 school my freshman year of college, but had to transfer, so I never played. Anyways, I thought Phenylvar plus Zycor + compound 20 and all my other crap would help me cut even faster. Anyways, from what ive gathered, 4 Chloro has no liver toxicity, but regardless I will have estrogen rebound, so legit pct sounds like a great idea lol. I never plan on using anything insane like superdrol, I've got pretty good genetics, I look like a "classic" linebacker, but I just wanted to experiment. A friend of mine put on 16lbs on Phenylvar and didn't used a SERM and he's fine. I still wanna try to find one, I don't wanna chance a THING.
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