Beginner looking to do first PH Cycle; here's the plan....

[nonstophero]

Sup guys, I've never used PH's before and I do NOT want to hurt myself. I was a youngster and couldn't use them back in the day when they were all the rage; I remember Old T-Bomb and Andro and some other stuff that was out when I was new to the supplement game. Anyways, I'm 25 now and was lifting consistently up until about 2 months or so ago when I messed up both of my hamstrings. SO....I haven't been in the gym as much, needless to say.

I want to continue to drop body fat (I'm using fish oil, CLA, Zycor by Bioquest, as well as Compound 20 by USP Labs) As well as add some decent muscle. I use whey protein, Occasionally Casein, and a multi vitamin; I plan on working creatine back into the routine as well as beta alenine with my pre/and post workout supplementation which I haven't decided on yet.

Anyways, I've just given you my foundation; it's solid and works, but I'd like some faster results, bottom line.

So far my plan is to use Phenylvar (an epistane stack) with CEL Cycle support, and for PCT I plan on running either Erase Pro and CEL Cycle Support (just to keep up the cleansing; PCT's can be toxic too) OR using CEL PCT Assist. I also want to run a joint formula by MHP called Relieve, just in case I'm someone who would be prone to joint issues while using this stuff. Phenylvar supposedly has a low estrogen conversion rate, and isn't all that toxic, but This being my first rodeo, I don't wanna take any chances.

I'm trying to keep things mild, I don't want to try Superdrol or Dianavar or anything else Super Ultra Supreme beast mode lol, this is a first try and I have no clue how these things'll affect me, especially as I try to supplement with my base stack as well. I won't lie, I'm actually really reluctant about all of this. I do want to see VERY serious results, but man, manipulating hormones is nothin' ya wanna screw with if ya don't know what the HECK you're doin, and I won't lie, I'm not completely clueless, but I don't know what is enough and not enough cycle and PCT support. I'm a college student with no career still, so I'm not loaded with dollars and I don't want to spend a crap ton of money, ya know?

Anyways, could you guys please point me in the right direction?

So sorry to be so ignorant, but you've gotta start somewhere....

[Mitch5]

Epistane is fine for a first run at it.
Your pct needs help though. You cannot run an OTC pct after a ph cycle you need a serm (nolvadex or clomid) from a research chemical site in order to make a full recovery. Do some look into serms to get an idea about them

[nonstophero]

Supposedly an extract in Erase PRO is supposed to act as a SERM; it's called Boerhaavia diffusa extract.

Regardless, I will most certainly look into them, thank you!

[TheGnome]

Erase Pro is not a SERM.

[Mitch5]

Supposedly an extract in Erase PRO is supposed to act as a SERM; it's called Boerhaavia diffusa extract.

Regardless, I will most certainly look into them, thank you!

No problem. But no erase pro can be run as an AI but is not really qualified as a serm. You need pharm quality or you could have a painful damaging recovery during pct.

[KenTheEagle]

Certanly youll recover without a Serm but why risk it? epi is one of the few compounds that can be run without using a SERM for PCT but again this will hurt your gains and if you dont recover quickly youll be in trouble. Id usw clomid atleast at 25 true mgs . Ideal standard is 50 mgs. Oh and if you dont use a SERM get a Good OTC TRS by primordial performance is your best bet

[nonstophero]

Okay, so I take it that a TRS is a Testosterone Recovery stack...That junk aint cheap, but anything for my body to recover properly lol. I'm not going to ask, but I have no idea about how to go about getting a TRUE SERM....That's about the only "hole" in the plan I can see for the time being.

[Mitch5]

Okay, so I take it that a TRS is a Testosterone Recovery stack...That junk aint cheap, but anything for my body to recover properly lol. I'm not going to ask, but I have no idea about how to go about getting a TRUE SERM....That's about the only "hole" in the plan I can see for the time being.

Google research chemical sites and take your pick of what looks legit. Look for nolva or clomid and purchase it.

[Superman_777]

God... some of the advice here is horrible..

you will need a serm man, you dont want estro rebound after. Just because this compoud isnt as harsh as others, does NOT mean you dont need serm. Only an uneducated idiot will tell you otherwise. When dealing with hormonal products, do your research and do it right, or else dont do it at all.

You have no business cycling without a proper pct, every ph cycle needs a right pct. Stop cutting corners and do it right OP.

If using clomid
25/12.5/12.5/12.5

nolv
30/30/20/20

Add in a test booster too. DAA preferably

[Mitch5]

God... some of the advice here is horrible..

you will need a serm man, you dont want estro rebound after. Just because this compoud isnt as harsh as others, does NOT mean you dont need serm. Only an uneducated idiot will tell you otherwise. When dealing with hormonal products, do your research and do it right, or else dont do it at all.

You have no business cycling without a proper pct, every ph cycle needs a right pct. Stop cutting corners and do it right OP.

If using clomid
25/12.5/12.5/12.5

nolv
30/30/20/20

Add in a test booster too. DAA preferably

100% agree! Your already fukin with your hormones by running a cycle, I don't understand why people get afraid of using a SERM!
I guess if you had a bad experience but there are options now, nolva, clomid, torem...
USE SERMS

[Gerbil]

Nolva dosage higher then clomid dosage.........

Incorrect to say the least. Clomid 100/50/50/25 or 50/50/50/50 the dosage you just described is lower then its usage as a anti-sterility drug which is 25mg daily for 3 months. I assume you have never used clomid if those are the doses you are recommending.

God... some of the advice here is horrible..

you will need a serm man, you dont want estro rebound after. Just because this compoud isnt as harsh as others, does NOT mean you dont need serm. Only an uneducated idiot will tell you otherwise. When dealing with hormonal products, do your research and do it right, or else dont do it at all.

You have no business cycling without a proper pct, every ph cycle needs a right pct. Stop cutting corners and do it right OP.

If using clomid
25/12.5/12.5/12.5

nolv
30/30/20/20

Add in a test booster too. DAA preferably

[KenTheEagle]

God... some of the advice here is horrible..

you will need a serm man, you dont want estro rebound after. Just because this compoud isnt as harsh as others, does NOT mean you dont need serm. Only an uneducated idiot will tell you otherwise. When dealing with hormonal products, do your research and do it right, or else dont do it at all.

You have no business cycling without a proper pct, every ph cycle needs a right pct. Stop cutting corners and do it right OP.

If using clomid
25/12.5/12.5/12.5

nolv
30/30/20/20

Add in a test booster too. DAA preferably

HAHAHAHAHAHA and my advice is horrible?... inform yourself man.... 30 mgs of nolva? seriously... and 12.5 of clomid???? some advice on here is STUPID ... also please read a bit more, you are just giving advice on using a SERM as if it were vitamins... we are not talking about superdrol, anadrol, dbol or tren to say that it will suppress him to 0... we are talking about fkn epistane.... and i didnt say he shouldnt run a SERM i said, it wasnt the end of the world, and that it would be better to use it, but if not, then TRS would be a great choice... next time you call my advices horrible, give some good advices with a good back up, because for your advice, you are no match for me, you just spit info and you only repeat what you read on fkn boards.... not everyone is right, READ !

[Rhadam]

God... some of the advice here is horrible..

you will need a serm man, you dont want estro rebound after. Just because this compoud isnt as harsh as others, does NOT mean you dont need serm. Only an uneducated idiot will tell you otherwise. When dealing with hormonal products, do your research and do it right, or else dont do it at all.

You have no business cycling without a proper pct, every ph cycle needs a right pct. Stop cutting corners and do it right OP.

If using clomid
25/12.5/12.5/12.5

nolv
30/30/20/20

Add in a test booster too. DAA preferably

You act like if you don't use a serm you will have rebound issues 100% of the time, that is incorrect. You're making broad generalizations, stop. OTC PCT has it's place, and if you don't understand why you clearly lack the knowledge of AAS and bodily functions.

Not to mention the information you posted is incorrect, check your dosages friend.

[KenTheEagle]

You act like if you don't use a serm you will have rebound issues 100% of the time, that is incorrect. You're making broad generalizations, stop. OTC PCT has it's place, and if you don't understand why you clearly lack the knowledge of AAS and bodily functions.

Not to mention the information you posted is incorrect, check your dosages friend.

totally agree!... these kind of idiots are a kick in the balls to us... they advice a SERM for everything as if they were vitamins and if you dont use em the world will fall ... this type of guys give us users a bad name. sometimes i get annoyed when i read this kind of "advices"... now it is true that there are some compounds that can suppress you to almost 0 , and superdrol or tren is an example so a SERM is crucial, or you will suffer big time, lose gains, ect. ive seen studies of guys running anadrol and equi, they test levels drop, obviously, but recover after 3 months without a SERM and sometime s6 months thats a lot of time, so yeah a SERM is important, specially for 10 weekers and beyond... anyways im not explaining this "superman" worthless guy, as he called my advice "horrible", so he can take all the SERMs he wants at pathetic dosages even after a simple DHEA 6 weeker

Just we need to understand theres guys that:

1.- Dont have any pharma grade SERMs on hand

2.- without pharma grade, not everyone wants to use a chemical that is labeled "not for human consumption"

3.- want to avoid legal issues

the list goes on.

i can extend big time, but i think most guys get me, Rhadam, i owe you reps!

[Mitch5]

I'm not sure he was directing that at you ken, sounded like he was saying in general. I hope he was atleast cause you said nothing wrong. I did not even see the clomid dose lol, yeah pretty useless what he recommended for that lol.

[Gerbil]

I personally use SERMs with every cycle but to be fair the most mild cycle I have run was dimethazine for 4 weeks. Also I like to spoil my balls.

totally agree!... these kind of idiots are a kick in the balls to us... they advice a SERM for everything as if they were vitamins and if you dont use em the world will fall ... this type of guys give us users a bad name. sometimes i get annoyed when i read this kind of "advices"... now it is true that there are some compounds that can suppress you to almost 0 , and superdrol or tren is an example so a SERM is crucial, or you will suffer big time, lose gains, ect. ive seen studies of guys running anadrol and equi, they test levels drop, obviously, but recover after 3 months without a SERM and sometime s6 months thats a lot of time, so yeah a SERM is important, specially for 10 weekers and beyond... anyways im not explaining this "superman" worthless guy, as he called my advice "horrible", so he can take all the SERMs he wants at pathetic dosages even after a simple DHEA 6 weeker

Just we need to understand theres guys that:

1.- Dont have any pharma grade SERMs on hand

2.- without pharma grade, not everyone wants to use a chemical that is labeled "not for human consumption"

3.- want to avoid legal issues

the list goes on.

i can extend big time, but i think most guys get me, Rhadam, i owe you reps!

[KenTheEagle]

I'm not sure he was directing that at you ken, sounded like he was saying in general. I hope he was atleast cause you said nothing wrong. I did not even see the clomid dose lol, yeah pretty useless what he recommended for that lol.

I personally use SERMs with every cycle but to be fair the most mild cycle I have run was dimethazine for 4 weeks. Also I like to spoil my balls.

LOL im pretty sure he did, i can be a jerk sometimes also ive been angry since i couldnt find bac water, i think i was scammed by a fkn RC company, and then i read that comment with those dosage protocols haha. i got annoyed, but yeah i feel you. im also very paranoid with suppression, thats why i dont dare to run a 12 weeker of test without HCG, or superdrol without a SERM... and well, we cannot compare an epi 6 weeker with those kind of cycles, no way!... altho as i said, it just depends on you when choosing a compound and PCT, if you have access to it, if you want to. the OP clearly talked about his concerns regarding a SERM and im pretty sure he chose epistane because of that (atleast thats what i want to think LMAO), i also read a list of the few compounds that can be mild on the HPTA than others, halodrol is an example as well... while theres others that can fk you up. we all should study EXTENSIVELY the compound we will use and choose the best to us, we have no excuses, we need to do research.

[LITERaCOLA]

ok this thread seems to be hijacked with argument so I'll spoon feed you

ok first off if your 5'10 and 275 i think you should try to loose some weight. try for 240 which should be easy with proper diet and cardio. but with your hamstring injury idk.

reason being the higher fat% you are = more risk for gyno
dont believe what you hear about epi being able to cure gyno or that it cant happen on epi...it's bs
Epistane is more of a cutting ph if that was your goal.

funny how no one asked what his dosage will be but if it's your first time i'd go 30/30/30/40/40. if you start noticing sides drop back down to 30mg it takes 2 weeks for it to normally kick in. stay at 4 weeks if you want since it's your first time but honestly don't expect huge results from your first cycle in general.

now you said you don't want to spend that much money but honestly if you dont have any support supps on hand it's going to get pricey. you said you had a few, fishoil and a multi which is good but make sure you have enough.
for this cycle you will need a few support supps
cissus/ joint support
milk thistle/ whatever liver support of your preference
taurine for back pumps
i'd recommend fishoil
a solid multi

plus you need to up your protein intake while on a cycle to maximize results so more powder or more food is more money

theres no need to buy brand name stuff so with that said it is cheaper but still adds up.

pct
clomid, torem or nolva. I've never used torem so I dont know about dosing on that.
if you dont know where to get a chem I am literally looking at an add for a chem website in the forum as i'm writing this and has a coupon code am10 which members of this site get 10 percent off. DONT DO A CYCLE WITHOUT A SERM.

with my last cycle I used epi and tren and my pct was
clomid 100 for the first 3 days then 75/75/50/25 and I finished a little over a week ago and I'm fine
if you want to do nolva i'd do 40 for days 1 and 2 then 30/30/20/20
erase 1/2/3/3/3/2/1
some people really believe in using a natty test booster, by all means it help but as long you you have a good serm it's not a necessity.Now i started using daa but my nipples puffed again when I started so i discontinued it and i've been reading it happens sometimes. but if you want to use it start it maybe 2 weeks out from end of cycle and run it 3/3/3/3/3/3. it takes 2 weeks to kick in thats why.

this is what I would do if I where you but you need to lose weight and do more research. maybe look in the cycle info tab. there's tons of epistane logs on there you can look at as well as logs on first time users as well.

good luck and again do more research.

[Mitch5]

ok this thread seems to be hijacked with argument so I'll spoon feed you

ok first off if your 5'10 and 275 i think you should try to loose some weight. try for 240 which should be easy with proper diet and cardio. but with your hamstring injury idk.

reason being the higher fat% you are = more risk for gyno
dont believe what you hear about epi being able to cure gyno or that it cant happen on epi...it's bs
Epistane is more of a cutting ph if that was your goal.

funny how no one asked what his dosage will be but if it's your first time i'd go 30/30/30/40/40. if you start noticing sides drop back down to 30mg it takes 2 weeks for it to normally kick in. stay at 4 weeks if you want since it's your first time but honestly don't expect huge results from your first cycle in general.

now you said you don't want to spend that much money but honestly if you dont have any support supps on hand it's going to get pricey. you said you had a few, fishoil and a multi which is good but make sure you have enough.
for this cycle you will need a few support supps
cissus/ joint support
milk thistle/ whatever liver support of your preference
taurine for back pumps
i'd recommend fishoil
a solid multi

plus you need to up your protein intake while on a cycle to maximize results so more powder or more food is more money

theres no need to buy brand name stuff so with that said it is cheaper but still adds up.

pct
clomid, torem or nolva. I've never used torem so I dont know about dosing on that.
if you dont know where to get a chem I am literally looking at an add for a chem website in the forum as i'm writing this and has a coupon code am10 which members of this site get 10 percent off. DONT DO A CYCLE WITHOUT A SERM.

with my last cycle I used epi and tren and my pct was
clomid 100 for the first 3 days then 75/75/50/25 and I finished a little over a week ago and I'm fine
if you want to do nolva i'd do 40 for days 1 and 2 then 30/30/20/20
erase 1/2/3/3/3/2/1
some people really believe in using a natty test booster, by all means it help but as long you you have a good serm it's not a necessity.Now i started using daa but my nipples puffed again when I started so i discontinued it and i've been reading it happens sometimes. but if you want to use it start it maybe 2 weeks out from end of cycle and run it 3/3/3/3/3/3. it takes 2 weeks to kick in thats why.

this is what I would do if I where you but you need to lose weight and do more research. maybe look in the cycle info tab. there's tons of epistane logs on there you can look at as well as logs on first time users as well.

good luck and again do more research.

Good stuff here

[Mitch5]

LOL im pretty sure he did, i can be a jerk sometimes also ive been angry since i couldnt find bac water, i think i was scammed by a fkn RC company, and then i read that comment with those dosage protocols haha. i got annoyed, but yeah i feel you. im also very paranoid with suppression, thats why i dont dare to run a 12 weeker of test without HCG, or superdrol without a SERM... and well, we cannot compare an epi 6 weeker with those kind of cycles, no way!... altho as i said, it just depends on you when choosing a compound and PCT, if you have access to it, if you want to. the OP clearly talked about his concerns regarding a SERM and im pretty sure he chose epistane because of that (atleast thats what i want to think LMAO), i also read a list of the few compounds that can be mild on the HPTA than others, halodrol is an example as well... while theres others that can fk you up. we all should study EXTENSIVELY the compound we will use and choose the best to us, we have no excuses, we need to do research.

Yeah what the hell is up with the bac water deal??
Was wanting to run a peptide but looks like that is screwed