Should I consider a cycle given these levels?
- 08-21-2012, 08:54 PM
Should I consider a cycle given these levels?
I'm 34, 5'9 150lbs, my goal is 175.
My T level was 400ng/dL and my E2 was very high earlier this year, possibly because of finasteride. I started tamoxifen, now my T level is 1200ng/dL. What kind of gains can I expect at that level? I am looking to hit 175 and maintain, that's my ideal weight.
Does it make sense to do a cycle? How much muscle would I keep normally?
I have pretty bad genetics, I started out under 110lbs. 5'9 175lbs doesn't seem like a big deal, but for my small frame and genetics, every lb has been a major struggle. I plateaud since I started finasteride 5 years ago but never made the connection until I did blood tests.
- 08-21-2012, 09:26 PM
For PCT, is Tamoxifen enough? Should I use Erase while on cycle?
Finally, what would be the optimal intake of protein on cycle? What if I don't cycle and stay natty, how much protein?
- 08-21-2012, 09:33 PM
08-22-2012, 12:16 AM
With T at 1200 total you will be able to gain just fine. How much protein do you honestly get every day?Originally Posted by mcr
08-22-2012, 03:52 AM
Around 100g or so. Can you recommend any drinkable protein like muscle milk? Anything less expensive?
I am thinking about stacking with Tongkat Ali 2g/day @ 50x concentration, that should boost my T level theoretically to 1600 I imagine, though I haven't seen studies done at these high T levels. If I can get my T level that high naturally, might as well stay natty, right?
One last q: If I do the cycle, how much muscle is normally retained after the cycle is over?
08-22-2012, 04:04 AM
I`ve had t levels of 450-800, age 34-39...it varies alot... gained 40lbs naturally in that period.. so you can`t really go by t levels alone when it comes to gains, food and training is more important. But 1200 should be awsome, but then again, if most get bound up, leving you with crap free t levels, those high total leves will have no impact on your gains..
actually even when I scored low, I still probably had decent free T values... since I was at my most shredded and strongest ever..(along with super libido)
Free T is the key value for muscle gain, not total T, did you not get that measured?
08-22-2012, 02:19 PM
When my T was in the 400s, my free T was 65pg/dL, which is in the middle of the range. I'm pretty sure it would be above normal now which should help.
How much muscle do people keep after finishing a cycle?
08-22-2012, 03:15 PM
With more T, often more will get bound up. I would check it.Originally Posted by mcr
I've never cycled, so I can't speak from experience, but I would gain more naturally before burning up your androgen receptors with a high dose cycle.
08-22-2012, 05:16 PM
Dont know many one time cyclers, besides my self... Gained so little that i was dissapointed, i gained more in pct and after than on...
But i ve gotten decent size so everybody think i use anyway..naturally.
The problem is, you either have those who cycle regulary, or thoae who dont, most of the ones i know that only used 1-2 times more ore less only trained that period, looked jacked, then when off, lost all desire in training, so they look totally untrained now..because most took up jogging instead lol.
Maybe someone else has some better stories.
I tried, because i wanted to see what all the fuss was, and if i could have some serious huge gains like i read in logs...problem is, most peoples logs are almost newbies....so i expected too much.
My test, and gh using friends, that are experienced, with a good deal off mass, and have used for years only expect 7- 10lbs a year of new solid muscle... And thats even when cycling half the year or more. The only times they blew up 20lbs in a month was on drol or dbol, as newbs and that got pissed away in a few weeks after...
I did not do any permanent damage from my one cycle, my old gyno flared up, but went down again, with no bigger glands.. My libido is just as stupidly insane now as it was before. If not better for some weird reason. But it was a bit down during pct, nolva kinda did that.
i did i last year at 38 years old, so the only way to find out, is to try it for yourself:-)
08-22-2012, 06:01 PM
your question on keeping gains is the critical part honestly. If you have problems gaining mass, going on cycle will make it easier to gain the mass, but it doesnt' make it any easier to maintain. Most people who cycle first time end up with next to nothing 6 months after first cycle, maybe 3-4 lbs. they pound down food at the start of cycle, make an easy 15-20lbs. start pct, drop down to being only 10-12lbs up and a good bit of it is fat. they start a cut afterwards to drop the added fat and to get down to as lean as they were before now end up at only 5-6 lbs up. and then their diet not being up to par (which is why they had a hard time gaining before the cycle) has them drop another few pounds over the following months....
At levels of 1200, even with "****ty genetics", you have plenty to make it to your target weight. You just need to get diet working. Forget shakes to hit the protein, eat real solid foods. cows, pigs, fish, chickens.
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