"GYNO FRIENDLY" cycle!

[craig1987]

looking for a bit of advice here fellas...

Right first off......i developed some gyno around 4/5 months ago after id done a 4week megavol cycle, i didnt have it before so my only guess is its from the megavol... a little naive and with the advice of a friend i took only inhibit-E for my PCT (stupid i no) anyway after a good few lazy months and and work commitments in the way circumstances have now changed and here i am again wanting to do another cycle.

My stats.
5,11
168lbs
Not sure of my BF%

Hopefully with this cycle i am going to reduce my gyno and get some decent gains whilst also lowering my bf%.
Ive been looking for a PH that is the most "gyno friendly" so it does not get any worse and from what i have found i think RPN HAVOC is the way am gna go followed by LETRO, NOLVA, and lastly FORMA-STANZOL.

So heres the plan so far....

RPN HAVOC 30/30/30/30/30/30
LIV 52 (3x3 daily)

PCT....

LETRO 2.5mg ED
NOLVA 20/20/10/10
FORMA-STANZOL (thinking 5 pumps AM and 5 pumps PM) applied directly to the chest area and around the nipples.

Can you run FORMA-STANZOL whilst on nolva???

Any views on dosages or or plan layout please let me no.

This is still a work in progress so any criticism or guidance would be very much appreciated as im sure ill be missing something somewhere.

Cheers.

 

[MattPorter]

looking for a bit of advice here fellas...

Right first off......i developed some gyno around 4/5 months ago after id done a 4week megavol cycle, i didnt have it before so my only guess is its from the megavol... a little naive and with the advice of a friend i took only inhibit-E for my PCT (stupid i no) anyway after a good few lazy months and and work commitments in the way circumstances have now changed and here i am again wanting to do another cycle.

My stats.
5,11
168lbs
Not sure of my BF%

Hopefully with this cycle i am going to reduce my gyno and get some decent gains whilst also lowering my bf%.
Ive been looking for a PH that is the most "gyno friendly" so it does not get any worse and from what i have found i think RPN HAVOC is the way am gna go followed by LETRO, NOLVA, and lastly FORMA-STANZOL.

So heres the plan so far....

RPN HAVOC 30/30/30/30/30/30
LIV 52 (3x3 daily)

PCT....

LETRO 2.5mg ED
NOLVA 20/20/10/10
FORMA-STANZOL (thinking 5 pumps AM and 5 pumps PM) applied directly to the chest area and around the nipples.

Can you run FORMA-STANZOL whilst on nolva???

Any views on dosages or or plan layout please let me no.

This is still a work in progress so any criticism or guidance would be very much appreciated as im sure ill be missing something somewhere.

Cheers.

The MOST 'gyno friendly' OTC hormone product is by far AndroHard. It is a stronger DHT precursor that has been rather successful in reversing gyno or preventing its ugly appearance.

I do NOT like your aggressive pct using a harsh lipid killer like Letrozole at 2.5 mgs --- this will wreak havoc on your immune system,. sex drive and HDL profile.

I rather see you use something like Aromasin (exemestane) -- however if using exemstane -- there really is not much use in using Formestane -- keep in mind formestane also will convert into 4-hydroxy testosterone which can impede PCT to a degree......

-Matt

 

[Lhns2]

Yikes kinda much on letro and forma. Use forma imo really formeron and forget letro.

 

[craig1987]

Ahh ok...well ive already got a couple of bottles of havoc on the way would you suggest waiting till i get some andro hard? I dont want to make this thing any worse!

What would be the best pct for reducing gyno/puffy nips in your opinion and how would you run it mate?

Ive also got some liquid nolva on order aswel.

 

[craig1987]

Whats formeron mate? Isnt letro ment to be like the shiz for gyno?

 

[epstaneman]

looking for a bit of advice here fellas...

Right first off......i developed some gyno around 4/5 months ago after id done a 4week megavol cycle, i didnt have it before so my only guess is its from the megavol... a little naive and with the advice of a friend i took only inhibit-E for my PCT (stupid i no) anyway after a good few lazy months and and work commitments in the way circumstances have now changed and here i am again wanting to do another cycle.

My stats.
5,11
168lbs
Not sure of my BF%

Hopefully with this cycle i am going to reduce my gyno and get some decent gains whilst also lowering my bf%.
Ive been looking for a PH that is the most "gyno friendly" so it does not get any worse and from what i have found i think RPN HAVOC is the way am gna go followed by LETRO, NOLVA, and lastly FORMA-STANZOL.

So heres the plan so far....

RPN HAVOC 30/30/30/30/30/30
LIV 52 (3x3 daily)

PCT....

LETRO 2.5mg ED
NOLVA 20/20/10/10
FORMA-STANZOL (thinking 5 pumps AM and 5 pumps PM) applied directly to the chest area and around the nipples.

Can you run FORMA-STANZOL whilst on nolva???

Any views on dosages or or plan layout please let me no.

This is still a work in progress so any criticism or guidance would be very much appreciated as im sure ill be missing something somewhere.

Cheers.

Whats formeron mate? Isnt letro ment to be like the shiz for gyno?

People that use the words 'whilst' and 'shiz' don't get any help from me.

 

[craig1987]

Hey....nice of you to feel the need to chirp up with a pointless comment. Ill take my advice from the more mature members. Thanks anyway.

 

[Lhns2]

Hey....nice of you to feel the need to chirp up with a pointless comment. Ill take my advice from the more mature members. Thanks anyway.

To answer other questions you should try to get rid of gyno first. Mine flared up on havoc believe it or not. Letro formeron from black lion and their prolactin supp. Letro is harsh man you feel like crap. Also use nolva after you taper off or possibly torem

 

[craig1987]

Cheers mate ill give it a go, how long would you recommend waiting to run the havoc after? As it is a transdermal do i need to let my body recover after pct?

 

[retroscapers]

What about stano? I'm gyno free and never used it, but isn't it pure DHT prohormone? I would think its a cheaper and better than Androhard, but AH does have some good gyno killed logs backing it, haven't read much on stano besides for a good test base

 

[uubiduu]

i would also be very interested in stano as AHv3 replacement for gyno cure but absolutely dont know which dosage/cycle length would be optimal then.

 

[epstaneman]

i would also be very interested in stano as AHv3 replacement for gyno cure but absolutely dont know which dosage/cycle length would be optimal then.

Safest and quickest way to get rid of gyno would be surgery bro. Don't fu*k with your hormones more trying to make it better and end up making it worse. I've seen people bring their gyno down with letro and a serm but if it's set in already.....only solution is surgery. Costs 7,000 so start saving.

 

[MattPorter]

Cheers mate ill give it a go, how long would you recommend waiting to run the havoc after? As it is a transdermal do i need to let my body recover after pct?

Formestane is not ideal for PCT as it converts into endogenous androgens and delays recovery. Letro is unhealthy to the max. SLowly your hormones will balance out and it will go dormant. At that point dont run cycles that are low in DHT or extremely suppressive like progestins and 19nors. Unless you have HCG, and DHT on hand.

-Matt

 

[bigadam73]

Matt-
Iv been in letro for 6 weeks now. My gyno has shrunk by 70% im planning to start tapering off of the letro this week. The problem is my nipples, mainly the right one, are still super puffy. I will start nolva after my last dose of letro.
Is there anything I can do for the puffiness?
Could the puffiness be caused by prolactin/progesterone gyno?
I originally got delayed gyno 4 months after a h-drol cycle

 

[csa2179]

AH has a better absorption rate than plain stano, and if stacked with epi it would make for a really good recomp/cut. Might be a bit dry, but that's not a big deal. I'd run the epi 6 weeks and the ah 8. Ive seen logs where people just used one of these compounds and got great results in reducing gyno. So I would imagine the stack would be impressive.

 

[bigadam73]

Could I taper off letro then jump right into a androhard cycle?

 

[MattPorter]

Matt-
Iv been in letro for 6 weeks now. My gyno has shrunk by 70% im planning to start tapering off of the letro this week. The problem is my nipples, mainly the right one, are still super puffy. I will start nolva after my last dose of letro.
Is there anything I can do for the puffiness?
Could the puffiness be caused by prolactin/progesterone gyno?
I originally got delayed gyno 4 months after a h-drol cycle

Wow 70% is major -- good news there.

The puffiness is hormonal I am reasoned -- as I have been very lean but some days the puffiness is more pronounced. I think it was nandrolone product that caused this cosmetic effect if not mistaken...

Would be IDEAL to taper off LETRO as you introduce AROMASIN to catch ANY trace of rebound. Then run aromasin for 4 weeks then you should be primed and ready to run the AndroHard.

-Matt

 

[bigadam73]

Matt-

Could I run nolva instead of aromasin to prevent rebound? I have nolva on hand and I really can't afford to buy another research Chem?

If the puffiness Is hormonal do you think a endocrinologist could correct the hormonal imbalance, or would they just recommend surgery?

 

[bigadam73]

Hey Matt.

Could I run nolva instead of aromasin to prevent rebound form coming off letro?

Also would it be a good or bad idea to add In a natty T booster like daa? The letro destroyed my sex drive.

Lastly why is androhard damn expensive? It would be much cheaper for Me to run a epistane cycle, they are both essentially dht derivatives right?

 

[uubiduu]

Safest and quickest way to get rid of gyno would be surgery bro. Don't fu*k with your hormones more trying to make it better and end up making it worse. I've seen people bring their gyno down with letro and a serm but if it's set in already.....only solution is surgery. Costs 7,000 so start saving.

No surgery for such a minimal gyno; risks and costs arent worth it.

 

[MattPorter]

Matt-

Could I run nolva instead of aromasin to prevent rebound? I have nolva on hand and I really can't afford to buy another research Chem?

If the puffiness Is hormonal do you think a endocrinologist could correct the hormonal imbalance, or would they just recommend surgery?

Adam,

Problem with nolva is that is it estrogenic in certain tissues and could increase irritability, emotional episodes (not as bad as clomid) and alter liver values. I have found pretty much ONLY positive effects from aromasin (exemestane) compared to clo/nolv...

I am unsure what the endo might do for you and would be VERY curious to hear their feedback.....probably just convince how benign it is and you are perfectly healthy and he would refer you to a cosmetic surgeon since its not life altering....

-Matt

 

[MattPorter]

Hey Matt.

Could I run nolva instead of aromasin to prevent rebound form coming off letro?

Also would it be a good or bad idea to add In a natty T booster like daa? The letro destroyed my sex drive.

Lastly why is androhard damn expensive? It would be much cheaper for Me to run a epistane cycle, they are both essentially dht derivatives right?

AndroHard is spendy -- but I can always try o help you out and make it more affordable. Truth is since we softgel it, box it, esterify it and thoroughly test it --- our cost is damn high.....

Epi would risk liver values, HPTA function and some get DELAYED ONSET GYNO due to the lower androgenic profile. For sex drive use Topical Sustain Alpha Gel --- that is bad ass boner GEL right there

-Matt

 

[bigadam73]

Matt

I would love to pick up some androhard. Who has the best prices?

And would sustain alpha worsen gyno for somebody who is very gyno sensitive. Right now my main concern is killing this gyno. I'm not sure if I'm ever going to touch anything hormonal ever again

 

[epstaneman]

Adam,

Problem with nolva is that is it estrogenic in certain tissues and could increase irritability, emotional episodes (not as bad as clomid) and alter liver values. I have found pretty much ONLY positive effects from aromasin (exemestane) compared to clo/nolv...

I am unsure what the endo might do for you and would be VERY curious to hear their feedback.....probably just convince how benign it is and you are perfectly healthy and he would refer you to a cosmetic surgeon since its not life altering....

-Matt

How would it show estrogen effects when nolvadex competes with receptor sites binding to them to prevent any estrogen side effects to begin with?


I've seen from my blood work it does alter liver values. In fact it F***ed with my shi* much more then the SD did. Was curious on your comment. I've read lots about nolvadex but never ran across what your stating. Would that only apply to already existing gyno rather then warding it off? Some insight would be nice.

 

[Husker89]

Ya matt i thought tamoxifen citrate binds to receptors in the brain and in the nipples(breast tissue) thats why it is used in breast cancer. I havent heard that it itself causes certain tissues to have higher estrogen(due to binding) What tissues are these specifically

How would it show estrogen effects when nolvadex competes with receptor sites binding to them to prevent any estrogen side effects to begin with?


I've seen from my blood work it does alter liver values. In fact it F***ed with my shi* much more then the SD did. Was curious on your comment. I've read lots about nolvadex but never ran across what your stating. Would that only apply to already existing gyno rather then warding it off? Some insight would be nice.

 

[bigadam73]

Ya matt i thought tamoxifen citrate binds to receptors in the brain and in the nipples(breast tissue) thats why it is used in breast cancer. I havent heard that it itself causes certain tissues to have higher estrogen(due to binding) What tissues are these specifically

I have also hear this. That's why I purchased nolva for post letro. I have heard nolva is not a god choice for prolactin/progesterone gyno. Maybe somebody could shed some light on this for us.

 

[Lhns2]

Progesterone (spelling) and estrogen are two different hormones. While estrogen being increased can cause prog problem, you can still have increased prog with low estrogen. It can be a side of tren that's why you have to have caber dostinex to control it. If a regular ai could block both, we wouldn't need caber dostinex. Different hormones different drugs to combat them. Nolvadex I believe up regulates progestin receptors and since your injecting a exogenous progesterone compound (correct me if I'm wrong) it just makes it worse. Anyone can correct me I might be wrong lol

Sent from my super duper VS920 4G using Am.com app!

 

[MattPorter]

Matt

I would love to pick up some androhard. Who has the best prices?

And would sustain alpha worsen gyno for somebody who is very gyno sensitive. Right now my main concern is killing this gyno. I'm not sure if I'm ever going to touch anything hormonal ever again

I dont think Sustain Alpha Gel has ever irritated or triggered gyno -- alothough I WONT EVER say any conclusively, because the hormonal balancing act is nearly impossible to predict.

-Matt

 

[MattPorter]

How would it show estrogen effects when nolvadex competes with receptor sites binding to them to prevent any estrogen side effects to begin with?


I've seen from my blood work it does alter liver values. In fact it F***ed with my shi* much more then the SD did. Was curious on your comment. I've read lots about nolvadex but never ran across what your stating. Would that only apply to already existing gyno rather then warding it off? Some insight would be nice.

Nolv will act as estrogen in brain, heart, nipples etc... this can cause improved lipids, better gyno protection, but horrid mood swings,, mild depression, and skewed liver enzymes.

I just aromasin -- from personal use and research

-Matt

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

I am unsure what the endo might do for you and would be VERY curious to hear their feedback.....probably just convince how benign it is and you are perfectly healthy and he would refer you to a cosmetic surgeon since its not life altering....

-Matt

this is what they all say, or something equally stupid....I had one tell me high estrogen is a GOOD thing last week, for your cardiovascular health. but the "it will go away by itself" is my favorite/most heard diagnosis of gyno. never ceases to amaze me how retarded these doctors are....

 

[MattPorter]

this is what they all say, or something equally stupid....I had one tell me high estrogen is a GOOD thing last week, for your cardiovascular health. but the "it will go away by itself" is my favorite/most heard diagnosis of gyno. never ceases to amaze me how retarded these doctors are....

DO I need to make a AndroHard Enhance topical + get you on 6 AndroHard softgels a day!!!! lol

--hmm.. AndroHard "Enhance" sounds cool eh???

-Matt

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

DO I need to make a AndroHard Enhance topical + get you on 6 AndroHard softgels a day!!!! lol

--hmm.. AndroHard "Enhance" sounds cool eh???

-Matt

Topical OTC DHT would be a beautiful thing. Better than having to order andractim gel from Cyprus

 

[MattPorter]

Topical OTC DHT would be a beautiful thing. Better than having to order andractim gel from Cyprus

Been trying to push this for a while --- I would need to break some legs to justify its usage -- as most feel from literature that oral (systemic) DHT like that from AndroHard would be more effective for sky rocketing DHT blood levels than a topical.

-Matt

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Been trying to push this for a while --- I would need to break some legs to justify its usage -- as most feel from literature that oral (systemic) DHT like that from AndroHard would be more effective for sky rocketing DHT blood levels than a topical.

-Matt

Yeah systemic is better in many ways....but comes with its share of sides ...topical will target the desired area and should have no real sides. Tell Eric this then tell him DO IT!!!

 

[MattPorter]

Yeah systemic is better in many ways....but comes with its share of sides ...topical will target the desired area and should have no real sides. Tell Eric this then tell him DO IT!!!

Its a huge drag to formulate these topical gels --- and takes tons of time to perfect the gel consistency and solubility of the ingredients into solution.

I would really like to see how this product fares though and run a few prototype bottles and have some beta-testers -- (of course local) since we could have them in person doing their blood work

-Matt

 

[MattPorter]

Yeah systemic is better in many ways....but comes with its share of sides ...topical will target the desired area and should have no real sides. Tell Eric this then tell him DO IT!!!

think we could start a petition for topical androhard 'AndroHard Enhance"???

get enough interest maybe it could happen?

-Matt

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

think we could start a petition for topical androhard 'AndroHard Enhance"???

get enough interest maybe it could happen?

-Matt

yeah its worth a shot. start the thread, and I think there are enough of us that want the product that we can cyber-sign the shyt out of it .....just about EVERY guy on here either has, had, or THINKS he has gyno....and topicals that reduce fat/estrogenic fat are very popular of course. so a topical that spot reduces, and spot reduces gyno tissue/fat would be a huge hit if you ask me.

 

[epstaneman]

Gatta love steroids on a flex-pay plan. I'd prob place an order myself ha ha ha

 

[epstaneman]

i came across this study. heavyiron posted it in another forum.

Cancer Res. 1981 May;41(5):1984-8.

Effects of tamoxifen on estrogen and progesterone receptors in human breast cancer.

Waseda N, Kato Y, Imura H, Kurata M.

Abstract

Twenty patients with primary breast cancer were treated with tamoxifen (10 mg p.o. twice a day) for 1 to 4 weeks. Before and after the tamoxifen administration, tumor specimens were obtained and assayed for estrogen receptors and progesterone receptors (PGR). Total cytosol estrogen receptor (ERC) and occupied nuclear estrogen receptor (ERN) were measured by hydroxylapatite assay, and unoccupied PGR was measured by the dextran-coated charcoal assay. ERC, ERN, and PGR were detectable in 11, 8, and 6 tumors, respectively, before tamoxifen administration. After tamoxifen treatment, ERC decreased in 10 of 11 ERC-positive tumors. Occupied ERN increased in three of five ERN-positive tumors treated with tamoxifen for a short period (1 to 2 weeks), but they decreased in all of three ERN-positive tumors after longer administration (3 to 4 weeks). PGR increased in three of five ERN-positive tumors after short-term tamoxifen treatment, but they decreased in all of three tumors treated by the drug for a longer period. Increased PGR responses were accompanied by an increase of ERN in two of three ERN-positive tumors. These results suggest that tamoxifen interacts with the estrogen receptor system in human breast cancer tissue and may be estrogenic during short treatment, while longer treatment results in an antiestrogenic response.

PMID:7214366 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Makes sense. It's a drug for breast cancer.




I used tamox before and everything went well.

 

[MattPorter]

OK I will start a thread for **** sake.....I personally think people would have great interest and lie the concept....but forums are a rather small niche of people ya know....

-Matt

 

[Austinmck17]

OK I will start a thread for **** sake.....I personally think people would have great interest and lie the concept....but forums are a rather small niche of people ya know....

-Matt

yea I want this, it would be sick. all of the products being made into topicals would be nice too

 

[MattPorter]

yea I want this, it would be sick. all of the products being made into topicals would be nice too

Here is the catch --- Oral delivery SHOULD be superior for increasing overall DHT blood levels --- however -- for an extra DHT punch, something like the AndroHard Enhance could be quite the -'add-on' effect without more horse pills to ingest.

Would like to make a prototype and get a 9 hr blood draw sample to compare to our oral 9 hr draw

-Matt

 

[T50]

I have slight gyno and have run superdrol, anavar, test, mast, and tren all without any negative side effects regarding my gyno. Just make sure you have proper auxillieries and you'll be fine.

 

[epstaneman]

I have slight gyno and have run superdrol, anavar, test, mast, and tren all without any negative side effects regarding my gyno. Just make sure you have proper auxillieries and you'll be fine.

Out of being nosey.....how'd you get the gyno? Puberty or no/improper pct?

 

[bigadam73]

I don't get it, I was on letro for 2 months. It reduced the gyno by 25 to 50%. I tapered off the letro because the lump stopped decreasing in size for about a month. I started nolva right after the letro. Now the lump is getting smaller and smaller everyday. The puffiness in my nipple is even going down. I am so happy, but shocked that the nolva is the thing that is actually killing my gyno! Can somebody explain to me why the nolva is working better than the letro???

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

well nolvadex is a breast tissue specific SERM. So it makes perfect sense, people have been using nolvadex to treat gyno for decades and decades now. Usually in conjunction with an AI (such as letro in this case). but either/or can work on gyno as a standalone.

 

[bigadam73]

well nolvadex is a breast tissue specific SERM. So it makes perfect sense, people have been using nolvadex to treat gyno for decades and decades now. Usually in conjunction with an AI (such as letro in this case). but either/or can work on gyno as a standalone.

It's awesome. I gave up hope and was about to go see my doc to discuss gyno surgery, if my gyno shrinking then I won't need to! I read a lot of threads that said nolva would not reverse gyno but only prevent it if symptoms of gyno started. I guess I finally found what works for me. I can tell you one thing, I'm never touching another PH. Im just going to continue taking arimidex eod for a while after I stop the nolva

 

[epstaneman]

It's awesome. I gave up hope and was about to go see my doc to discuss gyno surgery, if my gyno shrinking then I won't need to! I read a lot of threads that said nolva would not reverse gyno but only prevent it if symptoms of gyno started. I guess I finally found what works for me. I can tell you one thing, I'm never touching another PH. Im just going to continue taking arimidex eod for a while after I stop the nolva

Ya right. You'll touch another PH. Trust me....you'll be all like "well, I got rid of gyno before so what's the risk? Even if I got it I know how to treat it." ha ha


Glad your gyno's going away. Remember to tapper off the letro so your estrogen doesn't re-bound and cause you to end up in the same situation again.

 

[bigadam73]

Ya right. You'll touch another PH. Trust me....you'll be all like "well, I got rid of gyno before so what's the risk? Even if I got it I know how to treat it." ha ha


Glad your gyno's going away. Remember to tapper off the letro so your estrogen doesn't re-bound and cause you to end up in the same situation again.

I hope your wrong. Iv only done a handful of ph cycles. My first was rage rv5, a mix of tren and SuperDrol I believe. I could be wrong. This was 5 years ago. I felt gyno sides on day 3 of the rage rv5. I stopped the cycle immediately. Next I ran a few cycles of epi at your standard 30 mgs. No really gains. I felt like epi was crap. My most recent was h drol. I got my gyno 4 months after my cycle. Delayed mother f'ing gyno from h drol...****ty luck. If I do one day decide to do a cycle I will most likely run epi at a higher dosage. Maybbeeeee.... Never say never. I'm going to the doctor a few weeks after I'm done with the nolva, I'm going to run bloods and see if im eligible for hrt( my test level has been dropping fast over the last 2 years)

 

[MattPorter]

It's awesome. I gave up hope and was about to go see my doc to discuss gyno surgery, if my gyno shrinking then I won't need to! I read a lot of threads that said nolva would not reverse gyno but only prevent it if symptoms of gyno started. I guess I finally found what works for me. I can tell you one thing, I'm never touching another PH. Im just going to continue taking arimidex eod for a while after I stop the nolva

No...you'll just be running AndroHard only cycles to further kill gyno and increase muscle density and hardness for dieting season.

-Matt