Formestane as a stand alone supp?

[poison]

I'm new here, but I did search for this. My goal is to have a relatively mild increase in natural test levels, or at least not shut down my bodys production, with the intent to gain lean muscle mass and cut some fat with few side effects. I'm not looking for drastic results.

I'm not a n00b to training, I eat well and train hard. I just want something a little easier on my body. I have done one cycle of 1-AD at two tabs a day and experienced some hair loss. I'd like to avoid that.

My questions are as follows:

Will formestane shut down testicular production?

Will there be a rebound effect when I come off if I do a, say, 6wk cycle at 100mg per day transdermal?

Would I need to do PCT after said cycle?

What might the sides be?

Thanks in advance for any input you can give!

Nate

[poison]

Tough one, I guess. Anyone?

[rrgg]

Actually I thought some make it part of their pct. Maybe that's wrong.

[N4cer]

Not good.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showt...ne+suppression

[wastedwhiteboy2]

Its an androgen so it will shut you down. at least thats some peoples theory. it makes sense to me that adding any prohormone to your body will shut you down some. it will reduce estrogen because of the hydroxy. I would use clomid or nolva they will boost your natural test but not shut you down.

n4cer just showed you how to search.

[poison]

Thanks for the replies and links. That is why I have questions still, wwb2: there is a disagreement as to whether or not it shuts down test production. Both sides seem convinced.

I also am looking at Nolva. I saw a study that showed good results using Nolva alone. It raised test a lot.

Nate

[wastedwhiteboy2]

I know there is some conflict. maybe we need someone to get tested while on it.

[poison]

I'll probably be running a cycle transdermal for a month. I was going to wait until i found more info, but the feedback I've gotten on 4-OHT, which is what formestane metabolizes to, is good, so I don't see too many problems. I can just run a bottle of 6-OXO or Nolva if I really feel the need, but I understand that the amount of formestane metabolized to 4-OHT is so low that it won't affect test production too much, at least in a 4-6 week cycle.

It was recommended that I get a blood lipid profile done before and after, but I'm not sure it is necessary. I'd voluteer to get tested while on it, but don't have the cash.

[Sir Foxx]

The suppression is way overrated. The poor bioavailibility of oral Formestane means that not enough will convert at a normal 100mg-50mg ingestion, to worry about. Also, this shows just how potent it is, mg for mg, when compared to 6-OXO for estrogen suppression.

[Dwight Schrute]

The suppression is way overrated. The poor bioavailibility of oral Formestane means that not enough will convert at a normal 100mg-50mg ingestion, to worry about. Also, this shows just how potent it is, mg for mg, when compared to 6-OXO for estrogen suppression.

So either you use enough to counteract the poor bioavailibility, in which case suppression could be an issue, or use enough that suppression is not an issue, in wihch case estrogen suppression is not that great (as the studies show). What a great supplement.

In other words, its not that great either way you look at it and there is a reason why the medical community DOESN'T USE IT!

But supplement companies will continue to twist the context of those studies to make you tihnk its actually good while those who can actually interpret the studies know that it bascially sucks (orally OR injected)

[Dwight Schrute]

I know there is some conflict. maybe we need someone to get tested while on it.

They already have. Formestane has been showed not to increase testosterone production in any significant amount and also shows the effectiveness of the drug diminshes VERY rapdily compared to other AI's (which DO show an increase in test production).

This is typical supplement company marketing. Take something the medical community has bascially rejected because of the clincial studies, take certain things out of context and turn around and market it to those who do NOT understand the endocrine system.

[poison]

Bobo, so would Nolva be better?

Also, how is formestane as a transdermal?

[Dwight Schrute]

For what you are planning? No, none of them are. You are not going to see any significant gains from any of these unless you are already hypogonadic. Its a waste of money. You can get the same increase in testosterone just by eating and sleeping right.

If formestane isn't that good orally or injected why would you tihnk its good in a transdermal?

[poison]

Ha, sleep is my problem: I have a baby girl, and work 12 hr days, many times 10-20 days in a row. My food situation is great; sleep...Nope.

The times I've had 2-3 weeks off, I sleep like a baby and get bigger without changing anything else, so youre right about that.

Since there is nothing I can do about the sleep, I just want a mild test increase with fewer sides than I experienced on 1-AD: I lost hair. I wouldn't mind cutting a bit at the same time. Since formestane metabolizes to 4-OHT to some degree, it seems like it might do just that. But I'm probably wrong.

I have read some reviews and anecdotal evidence supporting this, though there is not much out there on it. Could be a sign it sucks.

[Dwight Schrute]

I have read some reviews and anecdotal evidence supporting this, though there is not much out there on it. Could be a sign it sucks.

You can throw about 99.9% of those out of window because they simply do not understand how to gauge results. Most of these people say they have an increase in libido which tells you nothing. DHT and estrogen have a more pronounced effect on libido than testosterone.

You also have to remember that the body naturally repsonds and most people can't tell the difference anyway. Withouth proper blood work the reviews are not credilbe at all.

When all else fails look towards the literature and it simply is not that great a substance.

[Dwight Schrute]

Since there is nothing I can do about the sleep, I just want a mild test increase with fewer sides than I experienced on 1-AD: I lost hair. I wouldn't mind cutting a bit at the same time. Since formestane metabolizes to 4-OHT to some degree, it seems like it might do just that. But I'm probably wrong.

4-OHT suppresses testosterone.

Formestane doens't raise testosterone to any significant degree even when its injected.

6-OXO does raise testosterone but is not that powerful and anti-E (yet it does show some properties).

SO out of those if you HAVE to use something, 6-OXO is your best best when you are not looking for any suppression (or even risk). But after saying that, Pat has said that taking 6-OXO for gains is pretty pointless and he manufactures it and has a reason to stretch the truth (if he wanted to)

[poison]

True, I see a lot of the "I'm super horny, so its doing something" posts about a lot of things.

What would be your recommendations, then?

[Sir Foxx]

My recommendation, and I'm sure Bobo will disagree, is that taking Formestane early in the PCT cycle alongside a typical PCT ancillary(like Clomid or Nolva) is viable option to consider. I've done this the last two cycles, with the second cycle being heavy on the dark side as opposed to PH's. 1st 2 weeks I use formestane alongside Clomid, then drop the formestane and continue with the clomid for 1 to 2 weeks. It has worked for me both times as I find that formestane is a very effective estrogen suppressor. To each their own as everyone has their mantra and I respect that, but for me this is a combo that is effective.

[Dwight Schrute]

You use Clomid and Formestane and you have the ability to tell what each one is doing? And how did you know it suppressed estrogen that well? Estrogen is suppressed anyway post cycle.

I just don't understand how you can even remotely say that Formestane did anything when you are not even taking into account interactions with other drugs and don't have any bloodwork to show anything.

[Sir Foxx]

Well, I've used formestane on cycle to know how effective it is at estrogen suppression. You're right about the blood work, I was going to do a before, during, post cycle series of tests but just never got around to doing it(procrastinator, I am). I just base it off my physique, gains kept, how I feel. I'm sure this won't be enough for you and I'm just stating my opinion on this subject.