Help With prohormones

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    Help With prohormones


    Hey guys
    Im new to the thread but looking to start a prohormone cycle very soon. Im 22 5'8 weight 165. Im looking to gain some lean muscle but more importantly looking for something that will help my speed and endurance. I have read that ,4-andro is good. Also I need help on what to take during and after the cycle to relieve side effects.
    -thanks


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    Your 22. Wait a little while, don't make the same mistake that I've made. You don't need it! So if you were going to take one, 4-Andro would be one to take with the least amount of sides and negative health affects.( Don't take it)

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    Quote Originally Posted by thaman305 View Post
    Hey guys
    Im new to the thread but looking to start a prohormone cycle very soon. Im 22 5'8 weight 165. Im looking to gain some lean muscle but more importantly looking for something that will help my speed and endurance. I have read that ,4-andro is good. Also I need help on what to take during and after the cycle to relieve side effects.
    -thanks
    you have plenty of growing room naturally. dont take anything hormonal yet
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    Quote Originally Posted by thaman305 View Post
    Hey guys
    Im new to the thread but looking to start a prohormone cycle very soon. Im 22 5'8 weight 165. Im looking to gain some lean muscle but more importantly looking for something that will help my speed and endurance. I have read that ,4-andro is good. Also I need help on what to take during and after the cycle to relieve side effects.
    -thanks
    You probably don't need a prohormone to increase speed and endurance. What else do you supplement?
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    Speed is largely genetic and can only be increased to a limited degree. Endurance can be improved greatly though, primarily through training. You can also try beta alanine (many good brands) or SNS's newly released Creatinol-O-Phosphate (which is not creatine BTW).
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf View Post
    Speed is largely genetic and can only be increased to a limited degree. Endurance can be improved greatly though, primarily through training. You can also try beta alanine (many good brands) or SNS's newly released Creatinol-O-Phosphate (which is not creatine BTW).
    "Speed is largely genetic".... Yeah that makes sense nobody has ever gotten faster. Wutruthinkin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    You probably don't need a prohormone to increase speed and endurance. What else do you supplement?
    I agree.

    Consider some plyometric training to help your leg strength and power.
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    i think speed is a blend of training and genetics. no way i can be as fast as an NFL running back, but if i trained right, i would prob top at a 4.6 = 4.7 40. as a senior in highschool i played free safety and in 2 a days i ran a 4.75 and didnt train for it so its possible to get faster, but i think there is a genetic limit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    "Speed is largely genetic".... Yeah that makes sense nobody has ever gotten faster. Wutruthinkin
    Largely not solely or all inclusively. Learn some comprehension.

    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    i think speed is a blend of training and genetics. no way i can be as fast as an NFL running back, but if i trained right, i would prob top at a 4.6 = 4.7 40. as a senior in highschool i played free safety and in 2 a days i ran a 4.75 and didnt train for it so its possible to get faster, but i think there is a genetic limit.
    This exactly is what I was getting at.
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    Doing heavy low rep squats mixed with some plyometrics seemed to help my speed. Plyo is great for any sport you play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf View Post
    Largely not solely or all inclusively. Learn some comprehension.



    This exactly is what I was getting at.
    Lol strong support for your statement. I quoted you exactly. There is a genetic limit on everything. Bringing it up in response to someone you know nothing about, is a bout as silly as me posting a recipe for peanut butter and jelly samiches.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Lol strong support for your statement. I quoted you exactly. There is a genetic limit on everything. Bringing it up in response to someone you know nothing about, is a bout as silly as me posting a recipe for peanut butter and jelly samiches.
    He's a really basic example, see if you can follow along. Say you can run 12 mph top speed. Do you really think you can double that by any training to get to 24 MPH? No, not possible. Why? genetic limitations (as well as human as this point). Yes this example is a bit extreme but is only used to exemplify my point. By this alone, you can see that you can't double your results by training in the context of increasing speed. However you can improve it to a point. This percentage of improvement is nominal in contrast, therefore, genetic limitations dictate speed more inclusively, rather then training. You can use this very comparison with other training such as strength, power, and endurance, all of which can be increased by more then double some arbitrary person's current limitation. Thus, genetics still play a role, but not as critical or limiting as that involved with speed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf View Post
    He's a really basic example, see if you can follow along. Say you can run 12 mph top speed. Do you really think you can double that by any training to get to 24 MPH? No, not possible. Why? genetic limitations (as well as human as this point). Yes this example is a bit extreme but is only used to exemplify my point. By this alone, you can see that you can't double your results by training in the context of increasing speed. However you can improve it to a point. This percentage of improvement is nominal in contrast, therefore, genetic limitations dictate speed more inclusively, rather then training. You can use this very comparison with other training such as strength, power, and endurance, all of which can be increased by more then double some arbitrary person's current limitation. Thus, genetics still play a role, but not as critical or limiting as that involved with speed.
    I couldn't follow along at all. Because your post is so fail. You believe that genetics play a larger role in sprinting because you value 1, 2, 3, etc seconds improvement less than say 50 or 100lbs in the weight room. "nominal in contrast" sure, to you it is. Genetics play a role in all physical limitations. I really don't care at all, but your original statement was silly and impossible to validate.

    Btw several elite sprinters ran 12mph at one point in their life. Now many run over 24mph.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I couldn't follow along at all. Because your post is so fail. You believe that genetics play a larger role in sprinting because you value 1, 2, 3, etc seconds improvement less than say 50 or 100lbs in the weight room. "nominal in contrast" sure, to you it is. Genetics play a role in all physical limitations. I really don't care at all, but your original statement was silly and impossible to validate.

    Btw several elite sprinters ran 12mph at one point in their life. Now many run over 24mph.

    Btw, it was only an example lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf View Post
    Speed is largely genetic and can only be increased to a limited degree. Endurance can be improved greatly though, primarily through training. You can also try beta alanine (many good brands) or SNS's newly released Creatinol-O-Phosphate (which is not creatine BTW).
    Dude I have no idea what your talkin about with speed being mostly genetic. Genetics has little to nothing to do with it. Speed can be increased just as much as endurance or a bench press. The only real limitations are physiological limitations, not genetic ones. If you dont believe me, ask any pro football player and ask them if they came out of the womb runnin' a 4.3 or 4.2. I hate it when people cant break through a barrier and they blame genes. SACK UP BRO AND ADMIT YOU DONT GOT THE PAIR TO GET BETTER! (BTW I have a master's in Genetics, Human Genetics to be exact so yes I really know what I'm talkin about. Ill let you read my thesis if you want.)


    now to the bro askin about PHs! Really dude if your 22, a PH isnt gonna do much other than make your nuts hurt. you would be better off takin a trip to Mejico...But as mentioned before 4-A is a fairly mild one that wont screw with you too bad.



    TRAIN INSANE OR STAY THE SAME!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by beast87 View Post
    Dude I have no idea what your talkin about with speed being mostly genetic. Genetics has little to nothing to do with it. Speed can be increased just as much as endurance or a bench press. The only real limitations are physiological limitations, not genetic ones. If you dont believe me, ask any pro football player and ask them if they came out of the womb runnin' a 4.3 or 4.2. I hate it when people cant break through a barrier and they blame genes. SACK UP BRO AND ADMIT YOU DONT GOT THE PAIR TO GET BETTER! (BTW I have a master's in Genetics, Human Genetics to be exact so yes I really know what I'm talkin about. Ill let you read my thesis if you want.)


    now to the bro askin about PHs! Really dude if your 22, a PH isnt gonna do much other than make your nuts hurt. you would be better off takin a trip to Mejico...But as mentioned before 4-A is a fairly mild one that wont screw with you too bad.



    TRAIN INSANE OR STAY THE SAME!!!!!!!!
    well no crap they didnt come out running that time. with proper training and really good genetics they get there. some kids are faster on the playground than others there same age and size. they must train super hard every day huh?!

    then why is desean jackson the fastest player in the NFL when all the other receivers and backs get the same training? why did mike vick run the fastest 40 time ever at the combine when they all train for it every year?
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    well no crap they didnt come out running that time. with proper training and really good genetics they get there. some kids are faster on the playground than others there same age and size. they must train super hard every day huh?!

    then why is desean jackson the fastest player in the NFL when all the other receivers and backs get the same training? why did mike vick run the fastest 40 time ever at the combine when they all train for it every year?
    well said.

    To the rest, I made my defense and heard nothing valid to dispute it. Nothing more to add.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf

    well said.

    To the rest, I made my defense and heard nothing valid to dispute it. Nothing more to add.
    I agree that everyone has a genetic limit but I don't agree with you saying that through proper strength training OP could not get fast enough for it to warrant the specialization in training. (Maybe not what you meant but how it sounded). I personally believe that speed is a skill, and like all skills one can improve upon it. By getting stronger throughout the entire body and practicing the skill of speed to make the body learn to apply the strength will yield faster run times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2542 View Post
    I agree that everyone has a genetic limit but I don't agree with you saying that through proper strength training OP could not get fast enough for it to warrant the specialization in training. (Maybe not what you meant but how it sounded). I personally believe that speed is a skill, and like all skills one can improve upon it. By getting stronger throughout the entire body and practicing the skill of speed to make the body learn to apply the strength will yield faster run times.
    Careful he negs anyone that doesn't share his opinion...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd

    Careful he negs anyone that doesn't share his opinion...
    Srs? Thought that sandy vaginas was against recoverBro rule number 1.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2542 View Post
    I agree that everyone has a genetic limit but I don't agree with you saying that through proper strength training OP could not get fast enough for it to warrant the specialization in training. (Maybe not what you meant but how it sounded). I personally believe that speed is a skill, and like all skills one can improve upon it. By getting stronger throughout the entire body and practicing the skill of speed to make the body learn to apply the strength will yield faster run times.
    That is not what I was saying at all. I was simply saying that speed increases through training are far more limited then other aspects of training such as strength and endurance which both have a much higher ceiling. You certainly can increase speed, but the increases are nominal in direct comparison to previously stated performance abilities. For example, you can increase speed through learning proper running mechanics, improving technique, and skill based training. Physiologically, there are genetic limitations that can not be overridden but do allow for some improvement, largely though improved muscle kinase, creatine phosphokinase, and total lactate dehydrogenase activity. However, I still hold that these increases are not near the same magnitude of the others. The following excerpt demonstrates this.

    "Frequent questions concern the relative contribution of natural endowment (genotype) to physiologic function, neuromuscular coordination, and exercise performance (phenotype). For example, to what extent does heredity determine the extremely high aerobic capacities of athletes? Do these exceptionally high levels of functional capacity simply reflect intensive training? How does familial aggregation affect skeletal muscle capillary density and enzyme activity and their response to training.

    Early research focused on 15 pairs of identical twins and 15 pairs of fraternal twins raised in the same city and with parents of similar socioeconomic backgrounds. Heredity alone accounted for up to 93% of observed differences in VO2max. The capacity of the short-term glycolytic energy system indicated a genetic determination of approximately 81%, while maximum heart rate showed approximately 86% genetic determination...Combining the estimated effects of genetics and familial evironment raises the upper limit of genetic determination.

    Today, sports scientist use laboratory and field testing to screen athletes for performance and physiologic capacities, including the application of molecular genetics with the ACTN3 gene that encodes the protein actinin in skeletal muscle to assess potential for sports and athletic performance."

    Ref: Mcardle, William D., Frank I. Katch, and Victor L. Katch. Exercise Physiology. 7th ed. Baltimore: Wolters Kluwer, 2010. Print.

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    Careful he negs anyone that doesn't share his opinion...
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf

    That is not what I was saying at all. I was simply saying that speed increases through training are far more limited then other aspects of training such as strength and endurance which both have a much higher ceiling. You certainly can increase speed, but the increases are nominal in direct comparison to previously stated performance abilities. For example, you can increase speed through learning proper running mechanics, improving technique, and skill based training. Physiologically, there are genetic limitations that can not be overridden but do allow for some improvement, largely though improved muscle kinase, creatine phosphokinase, and total lactate dehydrogenase activity. However, I still hold that these increases are not near the same magnitude of the others. The following excerpt demonstrates this.

    "Frequent questions concern the relative contribution of natural endowment (genotype) to physiologic function, neuromuscular coordination, and exercise performance (phenotype). For example, to what extent does heredity determine the extremely high aerobic capacities of athletes? Do these exceptionally high levels of functional capacity simply reflect intensive training? How does familial aggregation affect skeletal muscle capillary density and enzyme activity and their response to training.

    Early research focused on 15 pairs of identical twins and 15 pairs of fraternal twins raised in the same city and with parents of similar socioeconomic backgrounds. Heredity alone accounted for up to 93% of observed differences in VO2max. The capacity of the short-term glycolytic energy system indicated a genetic determination of approximately 81%, while maximum heart rate showed approximately 86% genetic determination...Combining the estimated effects of genetics and familial evironment raises the upper limit of genetic determination.

    Today, sports scientist use laboratory and field testing to screen athletes for performance and physiologic capacities, including the application of molecular genetics with the ACTN3 gene that encodes the protein actinin in skeletal muscle to assess potential for sports and athletic performance."

    Ref: Mcardle, William D., Frank I. Katch, and Victor L. Katch. Exercise Physiology. 7th ed. Baltimore: Wolters Kluwer, 2010. Print.

    I only neg arrogant douches, not opposing opinions.
    Like I said. It may not have been what you meant but it did seem that way. Good post and thanks for clarifying!

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    I might be late .... :/ but epistane dropped my 200m time from 23.7 to 21.2 and my 100m time from 11.1 to 10.5 .... that was huge .. after a 5 week cycle ... just sayin.. maybe i had it all along? (genetics) idk but ep played a big role in improving speed and alot of plyo's and olympic lifts of couse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamron
    I might be late .... :/ but epistane dropped my 200m time from 23.7 to 21.2 and my 100m time from 11.1 to 10.5 .... that was huge .. after a 5 week cycle ... just sayin.. maybe i had it all along? (genetics) idk but ep played a big role in improving speed and alot of plyo's and olympic lifts of couse
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    Quote Originally Posted by howwedo107 View Post
    Hence why steroids are banned in the Olympics
    true, although a **** load of runners i know use them, cos man i still get blown out.. :/ My teammate used epi, halo, and furuza! Best Prohormone stack for sprinters... those dry compounds, if working out and eating properly can really push your genetics pass what they were originally supposed to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla

    well no crap they didnt come out running that time. with proper training and really good genetics they get there. some kids are faster on the playground than others there same age and size. they must train super hard every day huh?!

    then why is desean jackson the fastest player in the NFL when all the other receivers and backs get the same training? why did mike vick run the fastest 40 time ever at the combine when they all train for it every year?
    This is right on. Speed can be increased to a limit but that's it. In order to reach the league you have to be born with blessed genes. No amount of training will make anyone into a Darryl Green or Prime time. I'm pretty sure those guys came out of the womb running 4.3s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by av6258 View Post
    This is right on. Speed can be increased to a limit but that's it. In order to reach the league you have to be born with blessed genes. No amount of training will make anyone into a Darryl Green or Prime time. I'm pretty sure those guys came out of the womb running 4.3s.
    Still only with training though. I can lose a good second on my forty if I don't sprint consistently. It has gone from 4.3 all the way to 4.9 and back down to 4.3- 4.4. Its like everything else its genetics, but if you don't train for it or use it you lose it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xGenericx
    Still only with training though. I can lose a good second on my forty if I don't sprint consistently. It has gone from 4.3 all the way to 4.9 and back down to 4.3- 4.4. Its like everything else its genetics, but if you don't train for it or use it you lose it.
    I understand what your saying. But you have to be genetically gifted to even get into that range. If both guys are running 4.4s and one trains and one doesn't than I see your point. But it is genetics that let Green jump out of the stands during fastest man at 40 years old and lose to D'Angelo Hall by .2 seconds lol. That was sick!

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    Quote Originally Posted by av6258 View Post
    I understand what your saying. But you have to be genetically gifted to even get into that range. If both guys are running 4.4s and one trains and one doesn't than I see your point. But it is genetics that let Green jump out of the stands during fastest man at 40 years old and lose to D'Angelo Hall by .2 seconds lol. That was sick!
    That was my point. Its all still genetics, but you can train to get faster and train to get alot faster.

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