Mdht and HPTA
- 10-18-2004, 07:18 PM
Mdht and HPTA
So I was skimming the "bi-weekly Bull" over at 1fast, and I read David Tolsons (Splonged) article on Mdht. It was a damn fine article with many references as usual, but something caught me by surprise.
"A final effect indicated in this application was that after 20 mg for six weeks, natural testosterone production was not affected. It should not be counted on for this effect to be reliable, as it could have been a function of dose or the way that testosterone regulation was measured."
So according to this study, Mdht does not effect the HPTA <GASP>!!! Can it be true?! Is this be the ultimate "bridge," so to speak? Well, I just wanted some comments from all the knowledgeable guys. Thanx alot.
- 10-18-2004, 07:32 PM
It makes sense, because anti dht's such as propecia seem to have no effect on test output. Its not like if you suppress dht your body responds and tries to produce more as it does with estrogen.
- 10-18-2004, 07:51 PM
the first post has some erroneous assumptions. i doubt that Mdht does NOT affect test, but test can be effected w/o effecting the HPTA (which is implied by the post). it is not the ONLY axis. $.50 for the first person to say what other feedback loop effects test output
(sorry, that's my bobo impression)
10-18-2004, 07:57 PM
OK,OK, maybe I wasn't as specific as I needed to be....lol. But I still wonder if a low dose of MDHT would shut you down or not. Can anyone locate the study that Tolson was referring to?
10-18-2004, 09:19 PM
How long after the last dose of Methyl DHT did they take the blood work?
Remember, DHT will lower estrogen levels. Having extremely low estrogen levels PCT is IDEAL.
So it could be that there WAS testosterone suppression. But it recovered extremely fast because Estrogen was so low, it didn't have time to get to high levels before Testosterone recovered.
If they did the final blood work 1 week after the 6 week Methyl DHT cycle, that might of just been enough time for full recovery.
10-19-2004, 08:42 PM
10-20-2004, 09:24 AM
10-20-2004, 09:50 AM
I'm waiting for someone knowledgeable to jump in any time now and ruin our good times here.... it's fun to speculate, but sadly, if something sounds a little too good to be true, it usually is.. Although I am hoping for good news nonetheless...
10-20-2004, 10:19 AM
We all know that due to the stimulation of the CNS by heavy androgens, testosterone production IS reduced significantly. Anybody heard of Halotestin? Winstrol? Masteron? All DHT derivatives and all suppressive. Yes primo is a DHT derivative as well, but the structural changes are what reduce (but to not negate) its suppressive qualities.
10-20-2004, 02:00 PM
10-20-2004, 02:15 PM
i would be willing to say it is suppressive however probably not as supressive as other androgenic hormones...like proviron which effects hpta a little amount but still does none the less.
10-20-2004, 05:35 PM
It just takes longer to suppress because it doesn't convert to estrogen which is the quicker way to get suppressed cause high estrogen levels make your body stop producing test. But your body will eventually realize the extra hormones and shut you down. Just takes a little longer.
10-20-2004, 07:15 PM
I'd place it closer to Halotestin than I would to Proviron, due to the location of the methylation.Originally Posted by dickwootton
10-20-2004, 11:40 PM
What's the half life of MDHT? If it is short-acting maybe a single, small dose doesn't cause much suppression? I suppose even if that were the case, you would still have a build-up effect over longer periods of time that should eventually cause HTPA problems.
Also the study referenced in the article wasn't on hypogonadal men with a compromised HPTA, so I still wouldn't feel great about using MDHT post-cycle. The good news is you may be able to run it pre-workout when off-cycle without worrying about suppression too much.
10-21-2004, 12:44 AM
Interesting thought. I wouldn't use it often but that would be a nice tool for breaking through sticking points.Originally Posted by skazman
10-21-2004, 11:36 AM
I thought the discussion of suppression was moot. All ph/steroids cause suppression. Theres a study that shows 10mg of anavar depresses the HPTA. And another one which show a single administration of winstrol affects the cholesterol levels up to a month.
Short of a blood test, you probably won't even know. You could be walking around with testosterone levels at nearly zero and not notice.
10-21-2004, 01:14 PM
10-21-2004, 04:08 PM
MarcusG is right. DHT is pretty similar to Testosterone in its actions. It should increase libido and well being. If you are abusing a DHT compound, feeling "on top of the world" and decide not to do PCT because you think your not suppressed. Your in for a surprise.
Like I've said in previous post. Never, ever, under ANY circumstance, use your Penis as a guide to: whether or not you need PCT, or whether or not you should stop PCT.
Always do PCT for, at the VERY LEAST, 1/3 the amount of time you were on cycle. So if you were on for 12 weeks, do a minimum of 4 weeks PCT.
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