Solo Epi or hdrol? Solo or stacked with Stano?

[Ths]

I'm trying to decide what to run as my next cycle. I've ran two hdrol cycles in the past and have been happy with both. The strength gains with hdrol are amazing. Does epi respond in the same way as hdrol when it comes to strength/weight gain?

Also curious about stacking to take it to the next level. I've never tried epi nor have I stacked before so I'm looking for advice/experience. Thanks guys.

24/5'9"/152/7%/lifting 4+ years

 

[pballer]

How have you run two hdrols and only managed to be at 152??

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

How have you run two hdrols and only managed to be at 152??

X2...You must not b eating enough.

 

[TonyGT]

Lol eat more I'm running Epi solo right now on day 16 and I'm up 7 lbs.

 

[Jahcuree]

7% bf is pretty solid though, looks like youve got cutting down solid

edit. im also on epi and about 18 days in and up 5-6lbs, possibly a little leaner too. i like epi waay better than hdrol so far

 

[Tc5433]

You should run like 3 consecutive cycles of foodabol with trainabol..should work wonders

 

[BigVida]

i just started epi solo for 6 weeks, todays day 2. only thing im worried about is blood pressure cause im still trying to use jack3d, but i think the stim contents gonna **** me up. ex: earlier aftr my workout i started getting bad gooseflesh and started sweating constantly for about three hours. i think it could be all the vitamins and supps im taking, maybe the nacin doing it, but whatever it is it reaaaaaly blows baby weewee.

 

[Ths]

You should run like 3 consecutive cycles of foodabol with trainabol..should work wonders

Haha, love it!


My first cycle I was up to 160 and then went through a bad break up and dropped weight from lack of gym time and not eating the same.

Second cycle went well but sprained my wrist week 2 of pct. I also didn't have my diet down right in the past. I was always too worried about not staying lean. I average 3500+ cals a day now and have been for over 6 months now but not gaining much at all. I've upped to around 4k and still manage to stay pretty lean. One mistake I made was to keep training heavy like I was while on cycle. I think I ended up preventing my body from keeping much of the gains by over training. I probably should have done a week or two of a deloading phase.

I'd like to give epi a try but heard its killer on the joints. I think I need to revamp my pct as well to better maintain gains. I was doing Nolva 20/20/10/10, reversitol week 2-4, All the normal staples, natty test boost week1-4.

I think for my next cycle pct I want to run
Nolva 20/20/10/10
Erase 0/0/2/3/2/2
DAA 3/3/3/3
Ldopa
Fatty A's
Multi
Creatine
AAKG
And as TC5433 put it beat... A heavy dose of "Foodibol"

 

[TonyGT]

Why would you even need a preworkout. There first couples days are rough but after that there is no preworkout that can give you the "on" feeling. I can go through my whole workout without crashing or anything just and awesome flow of aggression and energy from Epi!

 

[Ths]

What version of epi are you using? I've heard IBE, LGI, Havoc are all pretty decent

 

[TonyGT]

What version of epi are you using? I've heard IBE, LGI, Havoc are all pretty decent

I've got havoc!

 

[Ths]

What are you using for pct. I can't decide between just using the nolva or getting some clomid. What does your dosing for Havoc look like?

 

[TonyGT]

Take a look at my log! I have all my doses listed in post #1.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/202593-time-wreak-havoc.html

 

[Tc5433]

Haha, love it!


My first cycle I was up to 160 and then went through a bad break up and dropped weight from lack of gym time and not eating the same.

Second cycle went well but sprained my wrist week 2 of pct. I also didn't have my diet down right in the past. I was always too worried about not staying lean. I average 3500+ cals a day now and have been for over 6 months now but not gaining much at all. I've upped to around 4k and still manage to stay pretty lean. One mistake I made was to keep training heavy like I was while on cycle. I think I ended up preventing my body from keeping much of the gains by over training. I probably should have done a week or two of a deloading phase.

I'd like to give epi a try but heard its killer on the joints. I think I need to revamp my pct as well to better maintain gains. I was doing Nolva 20/20/10/10, reversitol week 2-4, All the normal staples, natty test boost week1-4.

I think for my next cycle pct I want to run
Nolva 20/20/10/10
Erase 0/0/2/3/2/2
DAA 3/3/3/3
Ldopa
Fatty A's
Multi
Creatine
AAKG
And as TC5433 put it beat... A heavy dose of "Foodibol"

Bro If your looking to bulk I wouldn't be running epi..it's mostly used as a recomp/cutting. I'd recommend you run DMZ if you want to put on some lean mass gains. I ran it for my first cycle and it added about 15-17 soild lbs..but that could be attributed to me eating like a horse an drinking mass gainer shakes.. It honestly all depends on what goals you are trying to achieve.

 

[Jahcuree]

Bro If your looking to bulk I wouldn't be running epi..it's mostly used as a recomp/cutting. I'd recommend you run DMZ if you want to put on some lean mass gains. I ran it for my first cycle and it added about 15-17 soild lbs..but that could be attributed to me eating like a horse an drinking mass gainer shakes.. It honestly all depends on what goals you are trying to achieve.

you can for sure bulk on epi while losing bodyfat. read tonys log, im also up 5-6lbs and down a little fat

 

[Tc5433]

you can for sure bulk on epi while losing bodyfat. read tonys log, im also up 5-6lbs and down a little fat

I know you can bulk on epi but it's not an ideal ph for bulking..there are tons of better phs out there that will give better results for a clean bulk. Epi is best for dry hard mass gains but to each is own

 

[Ths]

Clean bulk and dry hard mass gain sound like same thing to me. How long did you run dmz

 

[Nate007]

As far as PH raising bp, from my experience this is very over stated! On my last epi/trenazone cycle I took pre workout throughout cycle and had my wife who's a nurse check bp twice a week. I like using pre workouts mostly cause I usually have to hit the gym right after a long day of work and my job is some what pyshical. I'm 29 and usually bp gets worse with age, mine was excellent throughout entire cycle. As far as bulking and cutting goes either one can be done with any PH depending on diet and training. But would agree that DMZ is better suited for lean bulk than epi. Size and strength should be more noticeable with DMZ. Although on my epi cycle I was 175 and bench went up to 405 so epi def gives u that strength.

 

[Ths]

DMZ looks tempting but i'm trying to make the smartest decision. I've ran two hdrol cycles and loved them. Strength and that 'on" feeling is great. I didn't get the weight gain that I wanted on my second cycle but that was mostly due to not eating enough to support the gain. I am considering running a 6 week epi cycle as my next step and then maybe going a step further after that and trying something like DMZ or regualr sdrol. I just don't want to rush into anything too hardcore until my body is ready. My goal is to add 10 pounds and build a more solid frame so that when it comes time for super, i'm ready.

 

[Ths]

And as a general rule of thumb, would I expect more gains from a 6 week epi cycle or a 6 week hdrol cycle? Epi run @ 30/40/40/40/40/40-50 or hdrol @ 50/75/75/75/75/100? Diet consisting of 3500-4000 cal/day. Carb cycling some, but most likely a higher protein mid carb type diet. Extremely clean. That's what i'm currently doing for diet.

 

[Tc5433]

Clean bulk and dry hard mass gain sound like same thing to me. How long did you run dmz

i mean it really all depends on diet. you can bulk/cut on anything but some compounds are better suited for bulking or cutting. I ran DMZ for 4 weeks

 

[Tc5433]

DMZ looks tempting but i'm trying to make the smartest decision. I've ran two hdrol cycles and loved them. Strength and that 'on" feeling is great. I didn't get the weight gain that I wanted on my second cycle but that was mostly due to not eating enough to support the gain. I am considering running a 6 week epi cycle as my next step and then maybe going a step further after that and trying something like DMZ or regualr sdrol. I just don't want to rush into anything too hardcore until my body is ready. My goal is to add 10 pounds and build a more solid frame so that when it comes time for super, i'm ready.

DMZ wasnt too hardcore with sides but everyones body is different. Its two superdrol molecules bound together by nitrogen if im not mistake..it doesnt matter what ph your taking, if your not eating right you will not achieve your goals and or keep any gains. Plus PCT plays a huge role in retaining any gains that are made. You need to deload during your pct so you dont overwork your body. IMO DMZ would be a better for a good bulk. It gave me good strength gains but came with alot of size. Ive read that EPI is good for strength/stamina gains and is better than dmz when it comes to getting harder and more cut up. I should be running EPI within the next few weeks..just waiting on getting my nolvadex for pct before is start it. Ill make sure that i create a log so i can track my gains and ill post it for future reference. Honestly i might even hold off on running EPI because im seeing slow but good progression for cutting natural due to my change in diet, training and cardio. EPI will obviously make the cut 10x easier and will make strength gains shoot through the roof since it will put my body into a complete anabolic state

 

[Tc5433]

And as a general rule of thumb, would I expect more gains from a 6 week epi cycle or a 6 week hdrol cycle? Epi run @ 30/40/40/40/40/40-50 or hdrol @ 50/75/75/75/75/100? Diet consisting of 3500-4000 cal/day. Carb cycling some, but most likely a higher protein mid carb type diet. Extremely clean. That's what i'm currently doing for diet.

I have never ran hdrol but one of my buddies did. He said it wasnt worth the money in regards to gains made but s body is different.

 

[Ths]

Thanks for all the info man. I'm probably going to give epi a try. It is summer after all and the shirt is going to be off quit a bit. I'm hoping for close to 10 lbs from a 5-6 week cycle of epi. im considering stacking but have no clue with what

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Thanks for all the info man. I'm probably going to give epi a try. It is summer after all and the shirt is going to be off quit a bit. I'm hoping for close to 10 lbs from a 5-6 week cycle of epi. im considering stacking but have no clue with what

Epi+katana

 

[Ths]

katana is expensive as hell

 

[Ths]

I also just looked into epi/trenezone stack which seems to be really popular. Would it be necessary to run an AI throughout the cycle or just post cycle? Any route I take, this is what I have lined up for PCT;

Nolva: 20/20/10/10 (10mg am, 10mg pm)
DAA: 3/3/3/3/3 (Am with breakfast)
Erase: 2/3/3/2/1 (spaced through day based on number of caps)
L-Dopa(Mucuna):2 caps/day (am,pm)
Creatine: 15/15/10/10 (half with breakfast am, rest with post workout)
Multi: As directed
MRM smart blend(EFA's): 2 with each meal
B-complex: with each meal

Would B complex be too much B6 while on cycle? Is this cycle to harsh or a fairly average cycle? Thanks for all the info guys. I just feel that my body is used to the effects of Hdrol after two stand alone cycles and I don't want to waste another cycle period. Maybe even hdol/trenazone?

 

[Tc5433]

I also just looked into epi/trenezone stack which seems to be really popular. Would it be necessary to run an AI throughout the cycle or just post cycle? Any route I take, this is what I have lined up for PCT;

Nolva: 20/20/10/10 (10mg am, 10mg pm)
DAA: 3/3/3/3/3 (Am with breakfast)
Erase: 2/3/3/2/1 (spaced through day based on number of caps)
L-Dopa(Mucuna):2 caps/day (am,pm)
Creatine: 15/15/10/10 (half with breakfast am, rest with post workout)
Multi: As directed
MRM smart blend(EFA's): 2 with each meal
B-complex: with each meal

Would B complex be too much B6 while on cycle? Is this cycle to harsh or a fairly average cycle? Thanks for all the info guys. I just feel that my body is used to the effects of Hdrol after two stand alone cycles and I don't want to waste another cycle period. Maybe even hdol/trenazone?

Bro you really dont even need to stack anything with EPI. Its already pretty strong by itself and you havent ran it before so give it a shot solo before you start stacking compounds. How many mg of b6 is it? your not suppose to consume more than 10mg of b6 per day. Also id run the erase at 0/0/3/2/2/1

 

[TonyGT]

Bro you really dont even need to stack anything with EPI. Its already pretty strong by itself and you havent ran it before so give it a shot solo before you start stacking compounds. How many mg of b6 is it? your not suppose to consume more than 10mg of b6 per day. Also id run the erase at 0/0/3/2/2/1

I agree, run Epi solo! Give it a shot, it is impressing me right now. So little sides and my strength and size are up like crazy and I'm not even 3 weeks in!

 

[Tc5433]

I agree, run Epi solo! Give it a shot, it is impressing me right now. So little sides and my strength and size are up like crazy and I'm not even 3 week in!

Are you running epi by ibe?

 

[TonyGT]

Are you running epi by ibe?

Im running RPN Havoc.

 

[Ths]

Im running RPN Havoc.

Just ordered mine last night! Not sure what dosage I'm going to go with yet. The later weeks will depend on my reaction but it will probably be along the lines of 20-30/40/40/40/40-50/40-50

 

[TonyGT]

Just ordered mine last night! Not sure what dosage I'm going to go with yet. The later weeks will depend on my reaction but it will probably be along the lines of 20-30/40/40/40/40-50/40-50

I would start at 30. 20 is a waste imo. I'm doing 30/40/40/40/50/50.

 

[Ths]

Sounds like a plan.

Does my PCT look to be in check? I'm keeping the nolva and erase as my serm and AI. I'm not sure which route to take for a test booster. Either stick with the DAA or something like Isa Test-GH. Also, should I throw in something for cort control?

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Sounds like a plan.

Does my PCT look to be in check? I'm keeping the nolva and erase as my serm and AI. I'm not sure which route to take for a test booster. Either stick with the DAA or something like Isa Test-GH. Also, should I throw in something for cort control?

Reduce xt for cortisol

 

[Ths]

Is cort control necessary or would I be fine with the Nolv, cycle assist, Erase, and a test booster? In your opinion, whats your favorite test booster used for pct. I've used DAA and could tell a difference. I can see how running it with an AI would be much more beneficial as I just ran it solo.

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Is cort control necessary or would I be fine with the Nolv, cycle assist, Erase, and a test booster? In your opinion, whats your favorite test booster used for pct. I've used DAA and could tell a difference. I can see how running it with an AI would be much more beneficial as I just ran it solo.

Oh my bad, Erase will take care of cortisol too. DAA is so cheap and effective u can't pass it up.

 

[Ths]

That's what I was thinking. I've been reading lately on some possible problems with DAA. Have you heard/ready any good studies on this? or would another T booster be a better option. I can tell the DAA worked last time because my libido was up a little and I put on some water weight wich was most likely from the increase in test with out taking an AI

 

[Ths]

I'm also going to hop back on some bcaas. Should I save them for pct or run straight through

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

I'm also going to hop back on some bcaas. Should I save them for pct or run straight through

It doesn't matter.

 

[Ths]

One more question, since epi is considered more of a cutting/recomp product, would it be counter productive to take a gainer post workout? I have been carb cycling (not to the extremes) and sometimes a gainer helps after a workout to get in my calorie requirements each day. Or is it alot easier to just make my own (ie. whey, oats, maybe a banana). I didn't know if a lower carb diet works better with epi or does it just depend on my goal for the cycle? Thanks again for the info. I've never run epi and am looking forward to see what it can do for me.

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

One more question, since epi is considered more of a cutting/recomp product, would it be counter productive to take a gainer post workout? I have been carb cycling (not to the extremes) and sometimes a gainer helps after a workout to get in my calorie requirements each day. Or is it alot easier to just make my own (ie. whey, oats, maybe a banana). I didn't know if a lower carb diet works better with epi or does it just depend on my goal for the cycle? Thanks again for the info. I've never run epi and am looking forward to see what it can do for me.

It all depends on your goals. My boy just got done bulking on epi, gained 17 pounds, granted this was his 1st cycle, but that's huge. Make you're own weight gainer shake though.

 

[Ths]

What was his diet/training like

 

[BigVida]

its kinda versatile man, u can bulk on it but u wont gain 20 lbs. what day ru on, im on 4 now of a havoc cycle. im eating like 3200 a day so...youll be good

 

[Ths]

I haven't started mine yet. I'm waiting for it to come in. I'll have to eat way more than that or I will start to loose. I shoot for around 3500 a day now and stay at weight. My goal is to get around 4000 a day while on cycle. All my calories are clean too so I should be good to go.

What dose did you start at and can you feel any effects yet?

 

[BigVida]

I started at 30, gonna run it 30/30/40/40/40/40

Can't feel effects yet, I'm hoping this time next week I do

 

[BigVida]

I started at 30, gonna run it 30/30/40/40/40/40

Can't feel effects yet, I'm hoping this time next week I do

 

[Tc5433]

I started at 30, gonna run it 30/30/40/40/40/40

Can't feel effects yet, I'm hoping this time next week I do

Bump it up to 50 for the last two weeks