Looking for that edge in my gains..

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    Red face Looking for that edge in my gains..


    Hey, first post. Just a couple questions. I've been hanging around the forums, watching what people are doing for awhile. So I'm fairly-ish educated on what's what. Before I get into my questions I'll tell you guy my diet & training. I'm 6 foot 2 inches, 151-153 pounds. On a 3 day split, compound movements, drop sets for upper body, high reps for lower body. Not over training, surprisingly I'm out of the gym in a little over or under an hour. 150 grams of protein(with creatine supp in the protein)55 grams taken 1 hour AFTER I lift so as to keep my natural HGH flowing, also just finishing a 8 pound tub of carbo gain, 3200-3500 calories a day. Trained before but took a about a year break. Only been back on the weights about 4 months with really steady, noticeable gains. All that being said I'm interested in some prohormones for that extra edge in my monthly gains. My diets right I believe, my routine is good, and I'm steady gaining but I want just a little more 'bang'(bulk) for 'buck'(working my ass off in the gym). Ive done research, read endless logs, but nothing specified for me. So I need some help, suggestions, products, procedures. Thanks all. GoGetSwole

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    6'2 150lbs you could gain 30lbs easily without the use of any PH. You aren't even close to any type of plateau.
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    Are PH's only for when you hit a plateau? Is there not anything to do besides eating/protein/creatine/preworkout stim that would help me? Mabye I'm looking in the wrong supplements? I have fairly high test, but would a test boost help at 21? From what I read test boost are good around my age and older..
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    You're 6'2 150...just eat dude. If you're taking in 3500 calories/day you'll be just fine. No need to dabble in PHs right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGetSwole View Post
    Are PH's only for when you hit a plateau? Is there not anything to do besides eating/protein/creatine/preworkout stim that would help me? Mabye I'm looking in the wrong supplements? I have fairly high test, but would a test boost help at 21? From what I read test boost are good around my age and older..
    They're not ONLY for when you plateau, but the point i'm trying to make is that you are severely underweight as it is. Your body will put on weight very easily. At 21 and with your stats, you don't need one. Focus more on nutrition/diet, you can gain 5lbs a month, or you can gain 10lbs a month naturally (right now). It's all about proper nutrition.
    ~ Serious Nutrition Solutions ~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhadam
    6'2 150lbs you could gain 30lbs easily without the use of any PH. You aren't even close to any type of plateau.
    I agree with rhadam one hundred percent.... You need to just eat right and train right.. And as far as legs go high rep is ***** ****, no offense.. I used to think mine would grow from squatting 315 for sets of ten.. I don't think so, they've responded more in the last few months from squatting in the 2_5 rep range more than they did in. the ten to fifteen.. You need some strain to gain son!!!!
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    I am VERY under weight. That's why I thought any sort of weight gain would be great, natural or not. I guess I'll just keep and eating and training and see where I'm at in 9 months, that'll be my new 'year' mark. Im not gaining anywhere NEAR 5 pounds a month. Mabye 5 pounds every 2-2.5..so I guess we are at the question of, what the hell should I do differently to see your 5-10 gains monthly on a natural 'cycle'?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGetSwole
    I am VERY under weight. That's why I thought any sort of weight gain would be great, natural or not. I guess I'll just keep and eating and training and see where I'm at in 9 months, that'll be my new 'year' mark. Im not gaining anywhere NEAR 5 pounds a month. Mabye 5 pounds every 2-2.5..so I guess we are at the question of, what the hell should I do differently to see your 5-10 gains monthly on a natural 'cycle'?
    Up your calories. Right now at 3500 your kinda going the slow n steady Rt. Which is good if u wanna minimize bf gains. But if u wanna get big as u can fast as you can work your way up to least 4000 Cal's as your gains slow down add 500 Cal till you reach a level of 6000 cal. Once i reach 6000 cal i normally go back down to 3000 n do a mild cut and work my way back u to mass building. You should only need bout 160 grams of protein so get it from good sources beef chicken fish beans. The rest ur Cal's should come from carbs n healthy fats.

    This is advice coming from a fellow ecto. Using this method at 5 '10" I Bulked from 145-170. It can be done naturally keep at it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugry4more View Post
    Up your calories. Right now at 3500 your kinda going the slow n steady Rt. Which is good if u wanna minimize bf gains. But if u wanna get big as u can fast as you can work your way up to least 4000 Cal's as your gains slow down add 500 Cal till you reach a level of 6000 cal. Once i reach 6000 cal i normally go back down to 3000 n do a mild cut and work my way back u to mass building. You should only need bout 160 grams of protein so get it from good sources beef chicken fish beans. The rest ur Cal's should come from carbs n healthy fats.

    This is advice coming from a fellow ecto. Using this method at 5 '10" I Bulked from 145-170. It can be done naturally keep at it.
    Thanks hugry4more

    So within the next, say.. Month? I should hav upped my calories to about 6000? I think switching from 3200 to 6000 overnight would probably be a bad idea, so gradually through out the month I'll add 500 cals to my daiy diet. Also when I reach 6000 should I ride it out for a couple months? Longer? Before I cut back to 3000 on a cut? Or just go with the flow till I see a transformation? Thanks a lot guys
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    Figure out your BMR and adjust from there with how often you work out... 6k calories is a ton. Unless you wanna become overweight, you should stick with patience and a good well adjusted diet and a good training regimen.
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    I've bulked from 120-165 at anywhere between 2500-3500 calories/day. 6000 calories is not necessary at all and only taking in 160g protein and the rest of the 5300 calories coming from carbs/fats is not healthy in the least.
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    Thanks for all the replys everybody, seems like a lot of mixed suggestions on this forum. Sounds like I need to find what works for me and stick with it. Thanks again
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lhns2
    Figure out your BMR and adjust from there with how often you work out... 6k calories is a ton. Unless you wanna become overweight, you should stick with patience and a good well adjusted diet and a good training regimen.
    I agree with this guy.. You ain't gaining 5lb of muscle a month idc who you are 5lb/month is FAT. You're only fooling yourself
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    eat..more..food
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceroni View Post
    I agree with this guy.. You ain't gaining 5lb of muscle a month idc who you are 5lb/month is FAT. You're only fooling yourself
    Ya I was thinking it would be near impossible to gain 5 pound of muscle a month, naturally anyway. That why I was asking how he gained like that, mabye there's a miracle calorie number? Hah idk, I had to ask. But I agree if I ate 6000 cals a day I'd be fat skinny. Not just skinny. Life of an ectomorph sucks.
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    PH? not even close. Gain as much natty as you can 1st.

    OK try this and see where your weight goes: Go shopping and get potatoes, white rice, oatmeal, tons of chicken, ground beef, peanut butter and almonds.

    Eat 1.5 cups of cooked rice, cooked oats, or 2 potaoes per meal along with 5-6 oz of cooked chicken or ground beef. add 2 tablespoons of peanut butter. Eat this for 4 meals a day. substitute 4 whole eggs and 16oz of milk instead of a meat in am if preferred. Post workout do 16oz of juice with 35g of whey. At night you can eat 1.25 cups of greek yogurt with some milk and some nuts.

    some thing like this

    meal1: oats, 4 eggs, milk
    meal2: rice, chicken and nuts
    meal3: potatoes, chicken and pb
    post wo: juice or 2 bananas and whey
    meal5: rice ground beef
    meal6: greek yogurt, milk, nuts

    add in greens as much as you want. If you want specific help with diff options pm me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGetSwole

    Thanks hugry4more

    So within the next, say.. Month? I should hav upped my calories to about 6000? I think switching from 3200 to 6000 overnight would probably be a bad idea, so gradually through out the month I'll add 500 cals to my daiy diet. Also when I reach 6000 should I ride it out for a couple months? Longer? Before I cut back to 3000 on a cut? Or just go with the flow till I see a transformation? Thanks a lot guys
    NA it should be even more gradual than that. you will make nice gains at 4500 that should last you least 2 weeks before u need to go up to 5000 n then 5 will last u least two weeks. Up ur Cal when the gains stop. Once u get to it will be a while 6000 so just play it by ear. At that point you will be way tired of eating that much so ride it out till when ever u feel like u need a break n at that point try to she'd some the fat the gained then repeat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by broda
    I've bulked from 120-165 at anywhere between 2500-3500 calories/day. 6000 calories is not necessary at all and only taking in 160g protein and the rest of the 5300 calories coming from carbs/fats is not healthy in the least.
    Phht! You seriously don't kno what an ectomorph truly is. 3500 is childs play for a real hard gainer! Sounds like u hit a growth spurt or u were just an under eater not a true hard gainer. Imo u only need a gram of protein per pound of body weight. If your 160lb do the math...
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceroni

    I agree with rhadam one hundred percent.... You need to just eat right and train right.. And as far as legs go high rep is ***** ****, no offense.. I used to think mine would grow from squatting 315 for sets of ten.. I don't think so, they've responded more in the last few months from squatting in the 2_5 rep range more than they did in. the ten to fifteen.. You need some strain to gain son!!!!
    Squatting 315 x 10 down to the floor does get growth 4 me.. I laugh when I see guys loading up 5 and 6 plates and going down just til knees start to bend and go back up. That ain't squatting. I say go with the heaviest you can do for a full range of motion as many times as you can.. Boom you get huuuuugggeee!!!
    "Liver stress is weakness leaving the body!!"
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    So you guys think it may be my drop sets holding me back? I mean im not so much looking for strength as I am bulk/definition. Should I be doing 3 sets of the heaviest I can bench x 8-10 reps? I'm doing drops sets like: 1 set max, 2nd set drop 15 pounds, 3rd drop 15 pounds. I do that for 3 sets of bench, bicep curls, tricep extensions, dips. Bad idea for mass building?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGetSwole
    So you guys think it may be my drop sets holding me back? I mean im not so much looking for strength as I am bulk/definition. Should I be doing 3 sets of the heaviest I can bench x 8-10 reps? I'm doing drops sets like: 1 set max, 2nd set drop 15 pounds, 3rd drop 15 pounds. I do that for 3 sets of bench, bicep curls, tricep extensions, dips. Bad idea for mass building?
    No drop sets here n there are not holding u back. I have a routine that's real nice for adding mass that goes with the nutritional plan.I mentioned before. Pm if ur interested.
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    Quote Originally Posted by supraseed48 View Post
    Squatting 315 x 10 down to the floor does get growth 4 me.. I laugh when I see guys loading up 5 and 6 plates and going down just til knees start to bend and go back up. That ain't squatting. I say go with the heaviest you can do for a full range of motion as many times as you can.. Boom you get huuuuugggeee!!!
    Oh trust me bro I squat ass to grass, but the 10 rep range just wasnt doing it for me. Hitting heavier sets of 1s and twos and 3s and 5s is bringing my legs up better than the 10s.. Everybody's different, you just need to find what YOUR body responds to...
    For some reason, my legs just required more weight.. I'm a competitive natural bb'r so i'm always looking for ways to get my (small) legs to grow..

    As far as the OP, you don't need to buy the program from that guy. Look up jim wendlers 5,3,1. Go through that strength training program, one or two times, and STICK TO IT. DO NOT and i mean DO NOT stop halfway through the program, or change the program. DO THE WHOLE PROGRAM, and EAT EAT EAT. I think you'll require slightly more protein than 160, i'd shoot for the 180-200 mark... But as far as calories dont even count them if you're trying to grow, just eat till you're stuffed, and eat some more. Every meal you eat should be a challenge for you to eat more than you think you can (seeing as you're a true hard gainer, and trying to bulk)

    As far as quality foods, stick to these:
    Carbs:
    Oatmeal, white or brown rice (perferably white pre and post workout, brown for the other meals), white or sweet potatoes, pastas are even fine too (you're bulking), orzo, whole grain breads (ezekiel is the best, but expensive)
    Protein:
    Chicken breast / thighs (since you're bulking, the only difference in the thighs is that it has slightly more fat and calories, which is fine, BULKING), Lean ground beef, Steak, Eggs, Turkey, Even some pork tenderloin ONCE in a while wouldnt hurt (not a big fan of pork though I personally just find it DIRTY)... Fish- of course.. Salmon, other kinds..
    Fats:
    Nuts
    PEANUT BUTTER IS YOUR BEST FRIEND (this food is one of the most nutrient dense foods out there)..
    Olive oil,
    Grape seed oil, mac nut oil,
    WHOLE EGGS (the yolk is where all the fat is, and those are GOOD fats)
    You know, since you're bulking even a little butter here and there wont hurt once in a while- don't overdo it though..

    And im not sure how everyone else here stands on DAIRY, but for me- it makes me bloated as hell and gives me the runs.. So i avoid it. But if you can tolerate it, it is also very calorie dense and will help you put mass on.

    Edit: I like evodrags meal plan, it would work well for you, just make sure you eat as much as possible at every meal, and try to eat every 3ish hours.. (between 2.5-3.5 would be ok, with three being ideal)
  

  
 

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