Want a strong first cycle

[jonnieos]

I'll try to make this thorough and will edit this to add more info:

History: I've been training intensely (all natural) for quite a while now. I'm 6'0" 180lbs 7% body fat 20 years old (I turn 21 in July). I started at 150+ pounds very likely the same exact body fat (I've been staying lean). I started working out January of 2011 (from nothing clean start) at age 19, and went with full body workouts the entire time until I stopped midway through May of 2011. I started back up in September when college started and began to train more intensely with actual split muscle groups. I took the month of December off and came back mid January. At that point I've been training nonstop till now. I've been seeing some explosive strength gains but a huge plateau in my weight gains. I stopped gaining at around 178-180lbs and I'd say I'm a solid 180 if I don't stop working out.

Strength: At this point (with the multiple breaks which DID set me back weeks/months regardless of muscle memory), I can bench 300, I can probably squat around 500 because I rep out 250 for up to 20 reps, (but I don't think it's necessary to try with the risk of back injury), I can deadlift AT LEAST as much as I can squat, because I can rep 315 15 times and don't go to failure due to back safety. I'd say my arms are closing in on 17" which isn't close to satisfying to me but is still a MASSIVE difference from before and after (especially considering the time table it has happened in).

Gains: After adding up the total training time of 13 months, I would say the past 3 months have been the ones I would consider FULL ON disciplined (also training with a partner most the time, since March, which helps keep up max intensity). Though I did gain throughout: from 150-160lbs in the first 5 months. 160-165 in the next 3 months. 165-180 in the last 5 months. I've been stuck at in the late 170s to 180 even for a couple months. Most of my recent gains stopped at 178 or so at the end of march and now I'm finally keeping 180.

Why I Want to Start a cycle: I know I'm not at my genetic peak, but I think I've put in enough work gains and strength. I have been training 5-6 days a week since January, and can already easily handle this schedule. I'm actually at the point where I might go to the gym twice in one day to try and get more done so I can return to the muscle groups sooner. I've gained plenty of weight and strength, and my body has the muscle memory and capability to lift hard. I'm in good shape in general I can still do heavy cardio even though I don't train for it. It would be pretty cool to start my cycle after my 21st birthday party right on time with the age window. I have done ALOT of research on what it can do, after a situation happened where my friend sold me a prohormone compound containing THREE PRO HORMONE COMPOUNDS: superdrol, halodrol, tren, and after taking it for 2 days I realized all I had was milk thistle/omega3/estrogen blocker but I had no SERM, so I gave the bottle back.

I plan to : Take milk thistle during and post cycle, I'll take joint supplements before, during and post cycle, take taurine during cycle for back pumps, and keep up drinking cranberry juice on a daily basis, take a SERM afterwards for as long as my cycle (4 weeks).

After doing my research->
What I need to know : I've seen that epistane is a good choice for a first cycle (trying to make this my ONLY cycle), but this is just what I've seen, what do you recommend? I do of course want the biggest strength/size gains possible, but I'm basing this on the priority of realizing how my body accepts the PH cycle and maybe even avoiding a methylated compound. Though currently my personal choice has been Halotest-25 (pro-mag) (4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3b,17b-diol) because of it's 12 hour half life and 2 pills per day cycle, along with less estrogenic side effects possibly stacked with m-lmg since it is none methylated.
Where can I get nolvadex or clomid without a prescription.
Should I take an extra estrogen blocker on or post cycle?
I want to make sure I have the right dosing schedule, wondering how you guys would run it in my situation.
Is there something I needed to mention you want me to add to the original post??

 

[Nekt]

Can't ask for sources here but it's not hard to find on the net if you look search research chems. I'd take an estrogen control like erase when the cycle ends but you could run forma during cycle if your prone. Since its your first cycle start at a low dose of halo for the first tWo weeks to assess sides.

Commonly run first time is
Halo: 50/50/75/75/75/75

 

[jonnieos]

should I try stacking it with m-lmg

 

[Nekt]

First time user of steroids you should take it alone since you have no idea how your going to react. If you eat big and lift heavy on that Epi cycle you could gain 10 lbs

 

[tnubs]

U can gain over 10 pounds with either epistane or halodrol so long as u jack up your protein and totals cals. Look into cycle support on cycle, its an all in one product. For a SERM, look into other forums where sourcing is allowed or that have research chem sponsors.

 

[jonnieos]

U can gain over 10 pounds with either epistane or halodrol so long as u jack up your protein and totals cals. Look into cycle support on cycle, its an all in one product. For a SERM, look into other forums where sourcing is allowed or that have research chem sponsors.

is it possible you could email me or will i just need to search for that part on my own.

ALSO i'm worried about cholosterol raising plaque levels in my arteries? will this happen or is that part of what gets prevented with on cycle support?

 

[supraseed48]

"Once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny."(Yoda). Seriously though I doubt it will be your only cycle unless something bites you in the a$$ on it. I would say your not getting enough rest to reach your genetic potential if your going 6 days a week natural, and we know nothing of your diet. Soreness is NOT a indicator of whether a muscle is fully recovered either. The CNS has to have adequate recovery as well. Remember training is only 1/3rd of the pie. Nutrition and rest are just as important. You skimp on any part it is impossible to reach your generic potential. This is true on cycle as well.

 

[jonnieos]

"Once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny."(Yoda). Seriously though I doubt it will be your only cycle unless something bites you in the a$$ on it. I would say your not getting enough rest to reach your genetic potential if your going 6 days a week natural, and we know nothing of your diet. Soreness is NOT a indicator of whether a muscle is fully recovered either. The CNS has to have adequate recovery as well. Remember training is only 1/3rd of the pie. Nutrition and rest are just as important. You skimp on any part it is impossible to reach your generic potential. This is true on cycle as well.

Well I'm being pretty harsh on my results, my gains are probably very good even considering year 1, (already getting accused of juicing). I'm just thinking that I'm hitting a point where I can push myself past what I could potentially gain naturally, or come close to the peak. Recently after school ended I've been getting better at giving my body rest and nourishment, so I feel as long as I get everything I need prepared for the cycle (in the course of the next month and a half), and plan out a daily routine. It's VERY EASY for me to get to the gym. If I walk there it takes me MAYBE 2 minutes. I can go there any time of the day as well. I think my mind is in the right place because I already have been training on a schedule with someone who WAS ON A CYCLE, up until this past week. Do you agree that I should use halodrol as a standalone, because I'm trying my best to gain possibly 30 pounds and keep 22-25 if at all possible.

 

[tnubs]

To gain 30lbs you are going to have to use test plus orals or something a lot stronger than hdrol...

Given the time on cycle, the damage wont be too bad to your body and your cholestrol will quickly return to baseline after the cycle.

 

[jonnieos]

To gain 30lbs you are going to have to use test plus orals or something a lot stronger than hdrol...

Given the time on cycle, the damage wont be too bad to your body and your cholestrol will quickly return to baseline after the cycle.

Alright given the circumstances that makes sense. I'm sure the blood pressure levels will level out too? I've been reading that halodrol is a 6 week cycle often? Or is that usually on a 2nd+ cycle? One huge fear of mine though is testicular distrophy, how long does it last and how long does it take to go back to normal?

 

[tnubs]

Alright given the circumstances that makes sense. I'm sure the blood pressure levels will level out too? I've been reading that halodrol is a 6 week cycle often? Or is that usually on a 2nd+ cycle? One huge fear of mine though is testicular distrophy, how long does it last and how long does it take to go back to normal?

Yea BP will quickly go back to normal. And 6 weeks is fine for hdrol, its slower to kick in. Ur balls will be back to normal size during pct.

 

[jonnieos]

Is the andro-series worth the extra money? I've been researching them too and looking at andromass specifically.

 

[EasyEJL]

I know I'm not at my genetic peak, but I think I've put in enough work gains and strength. I have been training 5-6 days a week since January, and can already easily handle this schedule.
After adding up the total training time of 13 months, I would say the past 3 months have been the ones I would consider FULL ON disciplined

ok work with me here a sec. total training time of 13 months? spread over 17 months? so far since a break of almost as long as you had been working out, you are now working out for 7 months? and only 3 of those full on disciplined?

I'd suggest against bothering with steroids for a while yet. At least build a better habit, roll through the end of this school year, see what happens over this summer.

Should I take an extra estrogen blocker on or post cycle?
I want to make sure I have the right dosing schedule, wondering how you guys would run it in my situation.

no AI needed on cycle of most products in the oral range, except dbol, a couple others.

Dosing schedule is pretty much irrelevant regardless of what some guys try to make it out to be. When they say "keep stable hormone levels", natural testosterone doesn't even keep stable levels. If your fasted first thing in the morning tetsosterone level is 900, its probably 400 by bedtime.

should I try stacking it with m-lmg

max lmg is nice, good mass gains, nice for recovery. It may be a better first time product for you than halo or epistane

is it possible you could email me or will i just need to search for that part on my own.

ALSO i'm worried about cholosterol raising plaque levels in my arteries? will this happen or is that part of what gets prevented with on cycle support?

as said cholesterol bounces back fairly fast. beyond what amount of help cycle support (our product in orange is nice btw) gives, also adding fish oil and ursolic acid will help. What happens on cycle is LDL goes up some, HDL can plummet to next to nothing. So the fish oil helps a bit with keeping HDL up.

I'm just thinking that I'm hitting a point where I can push myself past what I could potentially gain naturally, or come close to the peak.

Recently after school ended I've been getting better at giving my body rest and nourishment, so I feel as long as I get everything I need prepared for the cycle (in the course of the next month and a half), and plan out a daily routine. It's VERY EASY for me to get to the gym. If I walk there it takes me MAYBE 2 minutes. I can go there any time of the day as well. I think my mind is in the right place because I already have been training on a schedule with someone who WAS ON A CYCLE, up until this past week.

you aren't anywhere near close to where you could push yourself naturally. Even if you had been with one of the ultra elite trainers, you wouldn't have reached half your potential in this amount of time.

you've maintained a schedule now for what 2 weeks longer than you did last school year? If you can't keep the consistency for months to years, the steroids will be largely wasted.

Do you agree that I should use halodrol as a standalone, because I'm trying my best to gain possibly 30 pounds and keep 22-25 if at all possible.

halo is an ok first one, the only way you are keeping 22-25lbs from ANYTHING in anything less than 5-6 months of a cycle is if most of it is fat. I could, delving into some VERY dark areas with some health risks get someone from 180 to 210 in 3 months. I won't even explain how, and I sure wouldn't recommend it for someone 21 either. Better if you don't care about being sterile after.

Alright given the circumstances that makes sense. I'm sure the blood pressure levels will level out too? I've been reading that halodrol is a 6 week cycle often? Or is that usually on a 2nd+ cycle? One huge fear of mine though is testicular distrophy, how long does it last and how long does it take to go back to normal?

blood pressure will drop back to normal within a couple days after cycle

original bottles were 30 days, so a little over 4 weeks, but still less than 5. over time it seems like the nicest results tend to be happening starting in week 3, so the extending to 6 weeks gives a bit better overall gains. maybe adding to difficulty recovering though...

testicle dystrophy is 100% individual. I know guys who shrivel up by the end of the first week on something and take at least 3-4 weeks after end of cycle to return to normal. I know guys who get next to no noticeable shrinkage on anything.

Is the andro-series worth the extra money? I've been researching them too and looking at andromass specifically.

tough call. As a prohormone, its results are tied to how your enzymes process it. You can experience amazing results, you can experience weak results. Its not a fault of the product, its an issue with what levels of which enzymes are in your bloodstream.


I'm not trying to tell you not to do halo or your choice. But you will have much better cycle results if you go another year as is naturally, really beat the schedule + routine into your bloodstream, really nail your diet down.

If you've started to plateua in strength or mass gains, you can ask and plenty will try to help you. Strength is easier. Mass gains can be touchy to work on, keep in mind that as a natural, without fat gain, a half pound a week (2lbs a month) is great results after your newb period of 3-12 months. in that start period, you can make more gains. But mass gains are just about 99% about diet. given what you said here

I've been stuck at in the late 170s to 180 even for a couple months. Most of my recent gains stopped at 178 or so at the end of march and now I'm finally keeping 180.

unless you can manage to gain more mass naturally (even with part to all of it being fat) using the steroids will do you ABSOLUTELY no good whatsoever. If all you can do now eating is maintain 180, even if you somehow balloon up to 200 all you'll do is increase caloric needs. when you return to normal hormones and eating as you do today, you'll continue to slowly lose weight + muscle till you are back down to 180. This is a 100% guarantee. Look at this forum. Look at guys who have been here almost 10 years. if oral cycles (or cycles of any kind) were that easy to make and retain that much in gains, even 10lbs in gains, you'd have tons of sub 8% bodyfat guys over 250lbs. It really does not work that way at all. Would be nice if it did, but the kitchen/dining room is your most critical piece to get right.

 

[ThunderHumper]

50lbs of muscle in 1 year is a load of ****. Did u lift in high school too?

Btw solid pics for first cycle. Jus run a solo compound for ur first run, u dont know how you would react to certain compounds. And look up at the advertisement on this forum. Thats all i can say

 

[jonnieos]

ThunderHumper, I don't think I've gained 50lbs yet. I did actually start in Jan 2011. Thanks for the info EasyEJL. My biggest worry is my diet, rest right behind it. What would the side effects of m-lmg be as a standalone. Wondering if I should stay natural longer and get through this weight barrier first or not?

 

[ThunderHumper]

Id say on a good year and a half, you gained 20lbs of muscle max. The rest is water, glycogen stores, and fat. If youre second guessing your diet, u should probly wait till u have that locked down before running a cycle. Failed nutrition during cycle can cost u all the time spent and the $200 on supplements u spent for the cycle and pct.

 

[deviover]

Just wanted to say I'm going to follow this post, I'm in a similar situation as you...been training now for the past few months (I'm not in the same great shape you are though) and looking for advice on a first-time cycle

 

[supraseed48]

ThunderHumper, I don't think I've gained 50lbs yet. I did actually start in Jan 2011. Thanks for the info EasyEJL. My biggest worry is my diet, rest right behind it. What would the side effects of m-lmg be as a standalone. Wondering if I should stay natural longer and get through this weight barrier first or not?

@ 21 I would hold off. I didn't touch a ph til I was 27. I started training seriously @ 18 weighed around 150. Got up to 185 naturally in 5 years. And that is someone who knew little about diet and how to maximize training. Cant imagine what I could have done with everything dialed in. With the resources and supplements we have today there are several routes to go before you have to start popping hormone pills. Yungins are just too impatient these days...

 

[TattooYou]

I've seen my best results with tren+primo+anavar. Solid lean gains as long as your nutrition is on point. I've run equipoise and winni before but stopped because dryness was causing joint, tendon, ligament issues. I've run a short cycle of halo but the acid reflux was brutal so I stopped after 3 wks.

As others on this thread have said, rarely is there just "one cycle". It's addictive and reinforcing when you see the strength gains. Get baseline labs before you start. Pretty much any cycle is going to screw with your lipid panel. Fish oil will control triglycerides but total cholesterol, LDL, and HDL aren't impacted by omegas. Keep your nutrition clean, be sure to get your cardio in, and check your labs at least every 6 months.

Good luck.

 

[ThunderHumper]

Just wanted to say I'm going to follow this post, I'm in a similar situation as you...been training now for the past few months (I'm not in the same great shape you are though) and looking for advice on a first-time cycle

This = impatient. Why do kids always want to run a cycle after "months" of training. Doubt u know anything on nutrition and your routine probly sucks. Your newb gains stopped and now u want to run a cycle because u think youve maxed out. Im guessin all this based on one sentence and im probly exactly correct

Yes im mean cuz people like you are the reason gear is taboo

None of this is directed to op

 

[EasyEJL]

ThunderHumper, I don't think I've gained 50lbs yet. I did actually start in Jan 2011. Thanks for the info EasyEJL. My biggest worry is my diet, rest right behind it. What would the side effects of m-lmg be as a standalone. Wondering if I should stay natural longer and get through this weight barrier first or not?

really breaking this weight barrier is best, and when you start having a problem gaining 2lbs a month without most of it being fat, then seriously thinking about anabolics is different.

Realistically sides for most substances are very individual. I get 0 sides of any sort from max lmg up to 150mg/day, I know guys who have grown boobs at 75mg/day.... so no telling, depends on your sensitivities

 

[jonnieos]

really breaking this weight barrier is best, and when you start having a problem gaining 2lbs a month without most of it being fat, then seriously thinking about anabolics is different.

Realistically sides for most substances are very individual. I get 0 sides of any sort from max lmg up to 150mg/day, I know guys who have grown boobs at 75mg/day.... so no telling, depends on your sensitivities

Yeah I see no reason in spoiling what i'm doing, adding unnecessary risks.