First time! Need guidance!

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    Question First time! Need guidance!


    Hey,

    I've been lurking on the forums for a while now doing some research. I am looking to start my first cycle.

    Since I am a novice, I figured I would start with what I have read to be a more mild steroid (with low dosage) - Helladrol.

    I have read a lot of information on this site and was still confused on some things so I began looking at stacks for a bit more structured plan. I found a site that sells a helladrol stack. I won't link to or mention the name of the site because I believe that will get me banned. The components are below:

    Weeks Dosage
    1-4 Helladrol - 1 capsule 3 times a day spread out morning, noon, and night.
    1-4 Forged Liver Support - 1 capsule 2 times a day morning and night.
    4-8 Forged Post Cycle - 2 capsules 2 times a day morning and night.
    4-10 Forma Stanzol - 5 pumps rubbed on your chest 2 times a day morning and night.

    Helladrol:
    Serving Size: 1 capsule
    Servings per Container: 180
    Amount Per Serving:
    4-chloro-17a-Methyl-Androsta-1, 4-diene-3,17-diol - 25 mg.

    Forged Liver Support:
    Serving Size: 2 capsule
    Servings per Container: 30
    Amount Per Serving:
    Proprietary Blend - 1200mg
    -N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC)
    -Milk Thistle (80% Silymarin)
    -Saw Palmetto Berries
    -Red Yeast Rice
    -Phosphatidylcholine (Choline)
    -Astragalus Extract

    Forged Post Cycle:
    Serving Size: 2 capsule
    Servings per Container: 37
    Amount Per Serving:
    Proprietary Blend - 1500
    -Tribulus Terrestris PE 60/20
    -Fengreek PE 50%
    -Indole-3-Carbinole
    -Cissus Quadrangularis (5% Ketosteroids)
    -Phosphatidylserine
    -Longjack 100:1 9Tongkat Ali)
    -3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran (95% extract)
    -Chrysin
    -3',5,7-Trihydroxy-4'-methoxyflavone

    Forma Stanzole:
    Serving Size: 10 pumps
    Servings per Container: 60
    Amount Per Serving:
    100mgs Formestane
    25mgs DIM
    7,8 - Benzoflavone (99%) 25mg
    chrysin 4mg
    Horse Chestnut seed extract 8mg

    The only other thing the stack "recommends" but does not include in the stack is a product called N2Guard:
    Name:  n2guard.jpg
Views: 504
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    Would this be a superior product to their Forged Liver Support?

    So that is what is included in this stack. My question is, is that really all I need? Is this stack missing anything crucial? Are there superior products for a certain part of this stack?

    Like I said, this will be my first ever cycle so I am not looking into anything too crazy. Any help/suggestions/criticism welcome! Thanks in advance!

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    you need a serm. no serm. no cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494 View Post
    you need a serm. no serm. no cycle.
    You haven't lurked long enough or read enough... see above statement.
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494 View Post
    you need a serm. no serm. no cycle.
    I've seen that said in many threads, thanks!

    I was originally looking at Nolvadex but then came across some Liquid Toremifene. Not sure which one is better. I've read good reviews about both.

    Should I go with CEL PCT Assist or the slightly more expensive N2Guard for PCT?

    I think I may drop their "recommended" stack and go for different products based on what I have read.
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    either serm will work, a lot of people praise torem as being better than both nolva and clomid though.
    You'll be fine just going with CEL's product for on cycle support. Keep researching and find out which individual products you need to use, I feel like thats always better than going with a pre-made "stack."
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    Jeez... the more I look, the more products I find, and unfortunately the more confused I get haha.

    I found this PowerLab Post Cycle 2 which claims to include everything I need for PCT:

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    generally a good basic outline for a PCT will include a SERM + Test Booster + AI

    A lot of people are going with DAA as a test booster right now, as it works very well and is a lot cheaper than a lot of other test boosters out there. I don't know what the price on that product is, but I'm guessing its more expensive than picking up some DAA and Erase or something like that. DAA and Erase will work better than that product IMO, even though it looks like it includes DAA.
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    also, the recommended serving for DAA is 3 grams, this products includes it in a proprietary blend that totals 1500 mg. Theres no way theres enough DAA in that product to make it effective.
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    Thanks for your help Ken Powers!!!

    So as of right now, I am looking at:

    Helladrol
    CEL Cycle Assist
    Liquid Torem
    Primaforce DAA
    PES Erase
    CEL PCT Assist

    Does this sound better/more complete than what I started with? LOL.

    Not sure on dosage and when to take. I was thinking:

    CEL Cycle Assist - Week 1-7: (4 capsules x2/day)
    Helladrol - Week 2-7: 50/75/75/75/100/100 (or should I leave last 2 weeks 75 as well?)

    CEL PCT Assist - Week 8-11: (2 capsules x2/day)
    Primaforce DAA - Week 8-11: 3gm

    Not sure when to take Torem and Erase :/
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    for a first cycle I would run more like 50/50/75/75/75/75

    only bump to 100 if effects wane. more is not always better.
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    Looks pretty good man! I ran h-drol as my first cycle, stayed at 75 all the way through. I see a lot of people going 100/125 with helladrol though, so you may want to just make that decision on the fly based on gains/sides.

    You don't need the PCT Assist with all else you have planned for PCT (Torem, DAA, Erase), but its definitely not a bad addition if you already have it/don't mind spending the extra money to throw it in.

    As far as timing for Torem and Erase, you can take both of those together at the same time everyday/night. A lot of people are taking their DAA pre-WO.

    Do some research on preloading hawthorn berry only, it could save you a little money over preloading Cycle Assist. Also, look around for information on Cycle Assist/Milk Thistle dosage timing (separating that from your helladrol dosage).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripped021 View Post
    Thanks for your help Ken Powers!!!

    So as of right now, I am looking at:

    Helladrol
    CEL Cycle Assist
    Liquid Torem
    Primaforce DAA
    PES Erase
    CEL PCT Assist

    Does this sound better/more complete than what I started with? LOL.

    Not sure on dosage and when to take. I was thinking:

    CEL Cycle Assist - Week 1-7: (4 capsules x2/day)
    Helladrol - Week 2-7: 50/75/75/75/100/100 (or should I leave last 2 weeks 75 as well?)

    CEL PCT Assist - Week 8-11: (2 capsules x2/day)
    Primaforce DAA - Week 8-11: 3gm

    Not sure when to take Torem and Erase :/
    Cycle/PCT - Anabolic/SERM...done!

    Just out of curiosity; how much - ballpark - does all that stuff cost you? My guess is your ancillaries are 4X the cost of the actual anabolic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Cycle/PCT - Anabolic/SERM...done!

    Just out of curiosity; how much - ballpark - does all that stuff cost you? My guess is your ancillaries are 4X the cost of the actual anabolic.
    That's probably accurate, maybe 3X is closer but from the list he's got there looks like an easy $150 not including Helladrol.
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    So much money spent with zero evidence of efficacy where as a SERM is well documented to be effective at restoring HPTA. Everything else will find homeostisis in a short time.

    Makes the industry go round I guess
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    Great point here. While I do think on-cycle supports have their place, enabling us to cycle more comfortably (for example taking care of back pumps and blood pressure headaches), the reason for adding in so much other stuff may in fact just be to make us feel better about what we're doing, thinking we're doing all we can to cycle "more safely."
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    I am not suggesting that on-cycle support is unnecessary. I am suggesting that Primaforce DAA, PES Erase and CEL PCT Assist could be eliminated. People recovered before they existed with simply a SERM. Is there substantive data to support their efficacy over a SERM alone in restoring HPTA? Not knocking the products, just in the application in PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn
    I am not suggesting that on-cycle support is unnecessary. I am suggesting that Primaforce DAA, PES Erase and CEL PCT Assist could be eliminated. People recovered before they existed with simply a SERM. Is there substantive data to support their efficacy over a SERM alone in restoring HPTA? Not knocking the products, just in the application in PCT.
    I understand exactly what you are implying and agree, somewhat. Most people that I've delt with and paid attention to simply "over do-it". Spending 300$ on supplements where as 100$ on supplements that have "similar" results in the end. Is it worth taking 6 things pct when past all that was used was the SERMs. Seems to me like all that stuff is overkill. Show me logs!
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    Show me data...
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494 View Post
    you need a serm. no serm. no cycle.
    Quote Originally Posted by StangBanger View Post
    You haven't lurked long enough or read enough... see above statement.
    You 2! REPS! Its good to see I'm not the only one trying to save balls in this sub forum haha xD , for futher info please read this thread my dear OP:

    PCT: What, Why, and How!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripped021 View Post
    Hey,

    I've been lurking on the forums for a while now doing some research. I am looking to start my first cycle.

    Since I am a novice, I figured I would start with what I have read to be a more mild steroid (with low dosage) - Helladrol.

    I have read a lot of information on this site and was still confused on some things so I began looking at stacks for a bit more structured plan. I found a site that sells a helladrol stack. I won't link to or mention the name of the site because I believe that will get me banned. The components are below:

    Weeks Dosage
    1-4 Helladrol - 1 capsule 3 times a day spread out morning, noon, and night.
    1-4 Forged Liver Support - 1 capsule 2 times a day morning and night.
    4-8 Forged Post Cycle - 2 capsules 2 times a day morning and night.
    4-10 Forma Stanzol - 5 pumps rubbed on your chest 2 times a day morning and night.

    Helladrol:
    Serving Size: 1 capsule
    Servings per Container: 180
    Amount Per Serving:
    4-chloro-17a-Methyl-Androsta-1, 4-diene-3,17-diol - 25 mg.

    Forged Liver Support:
    Serving Size: 2 capsule
    Servings per Container: 30
    Amount Per Serving:
    Proprietary Blend - 1200mg
    -N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC)
    -Milk Thistle (80% Silymarin)
    -Saw Palmetto Berries
    -Red Yeast Rice
    -Phosphatidylcholine (Choline)
    -Astragalus Extract

    Forged Post Cycle:
    Serving Size: 2 capsule
    Servings per Container: 37
    Amount Per Serving:
    Proprietary Blend - 1500
    -Tribulus Terrestris PE 60/20
    -Fengreek PE 50%
    -Indole-3-Carbinole
    -Cissus Quadrangularis (5% Ketosteroids)
    -Phosphatidylserine
    -Longjack 100:1 9Tongkat Ali)
    -3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran (95% extract)
    -Chrysin
    -3',5,7-Trihydroxy-4'-methoxyflavone

    Forma Stanzole:
    Serving Size: 10 pumps
    Servings per Container: 60
    Amount Per Serving:
    100mgs Formestane
    25mgs DIM
    7,8 - Benzoflavone (99%) 25mg
    chrysin 4mg
    Horse Chestnut seed extract 8mg

    The only other thing the stack "recommends" but does not include in the stack is a product called N2Guard:
    Name:  n2guard.jpg
Views: 504
Size:  38.5 KB
    Would this be a superior product to their Forged Liver Support?

    So that is what is included in this stack. My question is, is that really all I need? Is this stack missing anything crucial? Are there superior products for a certain part of this stack?

    Like I said, this will be my first ever cycle so I am not looking into anything too crazy. Any help/suggestions/criticism welcome! Thanks in advance!
    I would keep it simple, especially with Helladrol @ low dosage
    PCT:
    Formastanozol 10p/day (same where you got your Helladrol)
    DAA / Dpol
    Clomid 75 for the few first days then 50/50/50/50, Or Nolva..
    Post Cycle, or continue Cycle Assist into PCT.
    And keep the obvious, liver-care (Liv52 is good) since PCT can still cause liver stress.
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    I know some of you are saying I may be wasting money on certain things and not keeping it simple... I guess that is just my way of making sure I have all corners covered and ensuring a safe cycle.
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    Question on dosing...

    CEL Cycle Assist - Do I run that during weeks 1-7?

    PES Erase - Start on week 7. 1/2/3/2/1

    Do those dosing schedules look about right?

    I have a plan created so far but I can't upload pics yet
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    looks good, start Erase week 8 at the dosages you have there, and start DAA week 7 and run until you're done with PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Powers View Post
    looks good, start Erase week 8 at the dosages you have there, and start DAA week 7 and run until you're done with PCT.
    Thanks!!!

    I did some reading on Hawthorne Berry and plan on preloading for 2 weeks prior to starting my cycle. Also, the only thing I read about milk thistle dosing is it can have a negative effect on absorption. is this correct? how would i space out the CEL cycle assist and helladrol? i read somewhere that cycle assist should be taken just before bed - which goes against the 2 recommended dosing times but does not conflict with helladrol dose.

    I also read that forma stanzole should not be used during PCT. "You shouldn't use forma as pct as its an ai and also converts to a weak androgen, therefore defeating the purpose of the pct." Is that correct? Should I ditch forma stanzole all together?
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    yes, drop the forma from pct.

    make sure you dose the hella and cycle support 2 hours apart (more if possible)- just dont dose together.
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by StangBanger View Post
    yes, drop the forma from pct.

    make sure you dose the hella and cycle support 2 hours apart (more if possible)- just dont dose together.
    Thanks!

    What time or times of day is good for helladrol dosing? Do I just take all in the morning for example? Or spread out? I would base my cycle assist timing off of that.
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    well if you are running 50 then 1 am 1 pm

    if 75 (3 pills) you could do 2 am, 1 pm or 1 am, 1 midday and 1 pm...
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    if taking milk thistle while on cycle I would definitely shoot for 3 1/2 to 4 hours between it and ph/ds dosing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StangBanger View Post
    well if you are running 50 then 1 am 1 pm

    if 75 (3 pills) you could do 2 am, 1 pm or 1 am, 1 midday and 1 pm...
    thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Powers View Post
    if taking milk thistle while on cycle I would definitely shoot for 3 1/2 to 4 hours between it and ph/ds dosing.
    thanks!

    is the milk thistle dosing with helladrol the only thing i need to be specific about? I am assuming all of the other stuff, including PCT, can be taken in the morning all together?
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    Hmmm...

    Cycle Assist Directions:
    As a dietary supplement, take 4 capsules twice daily spaced out 8 to 12 hours apart, preferably with meals.

    I was thinking cycle assist was just once a day... I could take helladrol at 7am, cycle assist at 11am, helladrol again at 4pm, and cycle assist either 9pm, or just before bed at 10 or 11 (not sure if cycle assist will affect falling asleep being taken so late. opinions? experiences?)

    And assuming time doesn't matter on anything else, I'll take pills in the morning and any powders with my pre or post workout shake.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripped021
    Hmmm...

    Cycle Assist Directions:
    As a dietary supplement, take 4 capsules twice daily spaced out 8 to 12 hours apart, preferably with meals.

    I was thinking cycle assist was just once a day... I could take helladrol at 7am, cycle assist at 11am, helladrol again at 4pm, and cycle assist either 9pm, or just before bed at 10 or 11 (not sure if cycle assist will affect falling asleep being taken so late. opinions? experiences?)

    And assuming time doesn't matter on anything else, I'll take pills in the morning and any powders with my pre or post workout shake.
    I'm doing hella 530am assist 10am hella 130 pm hella 530pm assist 10pm
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    taking CA before bed should not affect sleep at all.

    As far as dosing in PCT, I've seen a lot of people dose their DAA preworkout, I don't think it really matters a ton though. Other things such as your SERM and AI can be taken together whenever you want.
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    Thanks for all the help guys!

    All my questions so far have been answered and I think I have enough knowledge to take on my first cycle come mid June. I know where I am going to purchase everything except for the nolvadex - still searching for a good site.
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    Let me know where you find a good site in a PM for that
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReedSkin View Post
    Let me know where you find a good site in a PM for that
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn
    Whoops! Did I leave out the CA before that smiley?!
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    Got all my supplies today! I'm very anxious to start.... I am waiting until mid-June to start though.
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    Good luck man. I am a scared little boy. Fears of gyno (or rebound gyno) are holding me back.
  39. Senior Member
    StangBanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGnome View Post
    Good luck man. I am a scared little boy. Fears of gyno (or rebound gyno) are holding me back.
    get an AI and low dose it...
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
  40. New Member
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    Thought about it. Aromadex would solve my worries I presume.
  

  
 

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