New to PH and confused a little....

[jlrsmith]

Hello, I am not a noob to lifting but definitely to ph's.....I've just ordered some Havoc to give it a bash, only want to do one cycle really as I've hit a plateau and want something to boost my lifting some more and get some better gains.

I have searched the interweb like mad but there's so many different opinions that it's hard to make sense of it all so decided I should ask people directly who know.

Is Havoc on it's own a decent enough product for me for a first timer or should I use it with anything else? I've read so far it's great for beginners so I'm assuming it's ok on its own. Also as far as pct goes I'm looking at AX pct assist or Nolva but would somthing like a simple testosterone booster like zma be enough for havoc? I'm thinking that Nolva could be overkill?

I really appreciate your help and views. Thanks all.

 

[TheGnome]

Are you serious? ZMA? Wow.

 

[LiveToLift]

Definitely use Nolva, some kind of AI like rv2 from iforce and a form of daa for your pct. Yes havoc alone we be good for a first time cycle. Make sure to take and preload cycle assist.

 

[Thatguy_603]

I'm going to assume ur over 21. U would take ur cycle assist with havoc . Pre load cycle assist 1-2 weeks in advance. And serm is a must. Havoc(epi) tends to lower estrogen so when ur finished with havoc u would get an estrogen rebound. Not good. so some nolva would take care of that. There u go I laid it out on a silver platter just don't expect everyone to be this nice..

 

[jlrsmith]

Nice one thanks guys this clears it up for me. Hawthorn pre-cycle, havoc then nolva.....I'm going to use bcaa's throughout as well and tribulus terrestris.....thanks again

And yes I'm 27.

 

[LiveToLift]

Throw in fish oil and a multi during cycle and consider using them as a staple too.

 

[Thatguy_603]

No prob.. Have a good epi run dude

 

[jlrsmith]

Sorry to ask again guys but finding Nolva in the UK seems fairly awkward for some reason but would something like Cytotam (Tamoxifen) be OK to use instead?

 

[LiveToLift]

Sorry to ask again guys but finding Nolva in the UK seems fairly awkward for some reason but would something like Cytotam (Tamoxifen) be OK to use instead?

Tamoxifen is Nolva...

 

[jlrsmith]

Ah good, that's what I was hoping the response would be. Thanks again.

 

[LiveToLift]

No prob! Throw an update in here on the results and enjoy!

 

[jlrsmith]

Will do, once it's all over hopefully it's gone well.....on that note, if it's not going well mid cycle/I don't get on with the stuff can I just stop it and take an equal amount (time worth) of nolva and be all good?

 

[LiveToLift]

Will do, once it's all over hopefully it's gone well.....on that note, if it's not going well mid cycle/I don't get on with the stuff can I just stop it and take an equal amount (time worth) of nolva and be all good?

Definitely, I doubt you will come to that though honestly! Havoc is pretty mild and from what I hear sides are minimal. Length of pct isn't necessarily length of cycle though. Drop your exact dose details in here when you have everything you need and I'll critic if you'd like.

 

[jlrsmith]

Definitely, I doubt you will come to that though honestly! Havoc is pretty mild and from what I hear sides are minimal. Length of pct isn't necessarily length of cycle though. Drop your exact dose details in here when you have everything you need and I'll critic if you'd like.

Ah cool, yeh I had heard a lot of people saying not to even both with pct for Havoc...though not sure I want to risk that....It's my wedding in July and I don't want to end up with tits for it!

Once my stuff comes through I'll put everything up in here and let you all know how I'm getting on. was thinking of doing standard 20mg Nolva a day for 4 weeks after the 4 week havoc cycle. that seem about right?

 

[LiveToLift]

20/20/10/10 is standard. The taper off method seems to work the best.

 

[jlrsmith]

Nice. Thanks, you've been a great help. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[jlrsmith]

Cycle went really well, gained about 13lbs in total and in another few weeks have gained another 6lbs so looks like my plateau has gone. Going to hit another cycle soon. Gains have been impressive and my strength has gone up a lot.

I only wish i'd taken before and after pics!!