First Cycle - Dbol + Sust

[MR SRX]

Hi Guys, Im new on here, so will give a little intro about myself...

I'm 24 years old , 5'9" and currently 170lbs at ~10% bf. I have over 5 years experience lifting (mostly done 'bulking' and 'cutting' ) managing to stick to my plans with good nutrition.
This is going to be my first AAS cycle which I hope to start few months down the line (saying all goes well with sourcing everything etc).

my plan is attached below... I have a couple of questions about my proposed plan;

1. If you look at weeks 1-3, I am thinking of doing 2 X 250 mg/week on sust (Sunday and Thurs) thereafter just doing 1 X 500mg/week (Sundays) - This is because I read sust does not provide consistent hormone levels for first couple weeks as the different esters de-esterify.

2. I'm planning on taking two weeks "off" before I commence PCT - This is because has an active life of ~20 days...?

I would appreciate it you guys could give some input on it. Also if theres any other 'goodies' I could throw in here?
Thanks

PS. Adex will be 0.25mg EOD. (Weeks 1-6)

 

[superbeast668]

Hi Guys, Im new on here, so will give a little intro about myself...

I'm 24 years old , 5'9" and currently 170lbs at ~10% bf. I have over 5 years experience lifting (mostly done 'bulking' and 'cutting' ) managing to stick to my plans with good nutrition.
This is going to be my first AAS cycle which I hope to start few months down the line (saying all goes well with sourcing everything etc).

my plan is attached below... I have a couple of questions about my proposed plan;

1. If you look at weeks 1-3, I am thinking of doing 2 X 250 mg/week on sust (Sunday and Thurs) thereafter just doing 1 X 500mg/week (Sundays) - This is because I read sust does not provide consistent hormone levels for first couple weeks as the different esters de-esterify.

2. I'm planning on taking two weeks "off" before I commence PCT - This is because has an active life of ~20 days...?

I would appreciate it you guys could give some input on it. Also if theres any other 'goodies' I could throw in here?
Thanks

View attachment 56798

PS. Adex will be 0.25mg EOD. (Weeks 1-6)

sustanon is better off eod to take full advantage of its short esters. grab test enanthate, and plan on sticking twice a week no matter what. theres nothing out there that i know of that you can pin once and keep a steady blood level. why did you drop off of your AI after a few weeks? doesnt seem like the best of ideas. run ai throughout cycle, seems silly to stop after dbols, estro sides will still present while taking any test. other than that it didnt look horrible.

 

[DangerDave]

Looks like a solid plan and sounds like you have a good base. 4 things though...

1. Sust needs to be EOD or your hormones will drop low then spike hard. 125mg eod and you will hit 500mg ew.

2. Don't stop the AI early. It not only keeps estrogen and bloat down but also will keep your LH primed. Run it 1mg ed for week 1 then .25mg ed after that. It will give you a good blood level right away then maintain it. You can even run it through pct and taper it off.

3. HCG is two high. Its unnecessary to run 1000iu ew. 2 shots of 250iu ew (the night before you pin a sust shot) will be plenty to prime you up.

4. Looks like you did your homework and that's just minor stuff I saw. Good job and enjoy brother.

 

[DangerDave]

I read your post again and realized you said 1st cycle. If I were you I wouldn't run sust as your first cycle. Here's why... it is made up of different estered test and if you get a bad side or reaction from it you won't know from which one. I have a buddy who gets horrible reactions to Test E but can use Test P forever without a side.

Try using Test E or C for your first run. 2 pins of 250mg every week. And you will be golden and tearing sh*t apart in the gym. It wouldn't change anything about your cycle as it is now except you wouldn't have to run dbol as long maybe 4-5 weeks.

Just my 2 cents tho man. Nothing wrong with Sust its a great thing. Just don't like the idea as someones first aas is all.

 

[xtraflossy]

It seems not many people don't like sust for legit reasons. Personally, the only cycle I've done with test was way back with sust250 and winny and had a fantastic cycle. Pinned 2x a week; no issues.
I was ill informed compared to now, used the winstrol at the end of the cycle ,could have done things better but my results were great.

Idk - I'm not really adding anything to the discussion and I know it- I guess I'm just saying that if you already bought your gear don't feel like you just wasted your money

 

[DangerDave]

It seems not many people don't like sust for legit reasons. Personally, the only cycle I've done with test was way back with sust250 and winny and had a fantastic cycle. Pinned 2x a week; no issues.
I was ill informed compared to now, used the winstrol at the end of the cycle ,could have done things better but my results were great.

Idk - I'm not really adding anything to the discussion and I know it- I guess I'm just saying that if you already bought your gear don't feel like you just wasted your money

It can be done and its a great aas. If I got sides I would like to know from what is my logic. Like flossy said if you already got it no big deal run it... you didn't waste your money and you will see nice gains.

 

[xtraflossy]

It can be done and its a great aas. If I got sides I would like to know from what is my logic. Like flossy said if you already got it no big deal run it... you didn't waste your money and you will see nice gains.

I'm not picking a bone or anything; but of you have sides from sust250, you have test sides. Personally, I dont know what sides cyp gives over prop or test E. It's kinda all the same.
I am not saying each different test gives it's own sides, but to my knowlage (which is very limited) a test side is a test side. Same compound, different active length. I'm not so much saying your "wrong" , I litterally just don't know.
Just talking about it makes me want to get some lol. Which is a shame as I'm coming off a hdrol cycle in the first time in 3+ years

 

[DangerDave]

I'm not picking a bone or anything; but of you have sides from sust250, you have test sides. Personally, I dont know what sides cyp gives over prop or test E. It's kinda all the same.
I am not saying each different test gives it's own sides, but to my knowlage (which is very limited) a test side is a test side. Same compound, different active length. I'm not so much saying your "wrong" , I litterally just don't know.
Just talking about it makes me want to get some lol. Which is a shame as I'm coming off a hdrol cycle in the first time in 3+ years

I know man I don't really know why it happens I just know it does.

1 milliliter of Sustanon 250 Contains:
30 mgs Testosterone Propionate
60mgs testosterone Phenylpropionate
60mgs testosterone Isocaproate
100mgs testosterone Decanoate

The human body is weird in the way it reacts to some things. I have never had a side I can't handle but I got friends that just can't use some kinds just because how they react to it. Weird sh*t but I can't find a study why.

 

[xtraflossy]

I know man I don't really know why it happens I just know it does.

1 milliliter of Sustanon 250 Contains:
30 mgs Testosterone Propionate
60mgs testosterone Phenylpropionate
60mgs testosterone Isocaproate
100mgs testosterone Decanoate

The human body is weird in the way it reacts to some things. I have never had a side I can't handle but I got friends that just can't use some kinds just because how they react to it. Weird sh*t but I can't find a study why.

I know- I wan't even looking for medical studies. I just mean, some sides come on faster with faster acting test, and slower with slower acting test, but it's all the same sides non the less (logically speaking and in my opinion-ish).
You;ll get bloat- all handled in simulir fashion, treated the same way.
IM actually now very curious about this and might make another topic to just explore the possibilities. I'd love to do another test cycle and would like to be more informed then I was when I did my last one.

 

[DangerDave]

I see what your saying. I'm interested now. When I get home and have a computer instead of phone I'm gunna do some research.

 

[master 400]

I have always liked test e the best ran it for years ....just takes some time to get in the system....

 

[MR SRX]

sustanon is better off eod to take full advantage of its short esters. grab test enanthate, and plan on sticking twice a week no matter what. theres nothing out there that i know of that you can pin once and keep a steady blood level. why did you drop off of your AI after a few weeks? doesnt seem like the best of ideas. run ai throughout cycle, seems silly to stop after dbols, estro sides will still present while taking any test. other than that it didnt look horrible.

I was looking at Sust vs Test E with exactly those points in mind and to be honest I was geared towards test E instead of sust initially... Its just when you think about the different types of esters, (blend of short, mediums and long chains) make it seem like the "long-acting" testosterone, ie. it will release testosterone at different rates over a long period...
looking at the components of sustenon250 ( 30 mgs Testosterone Propionate,60mgs testosterone Phenylpropionate, 60mgs testosterone Isocarproate, 100mgs testosterone Decanoate) - yes, indeed the only way you could maintain 'relatively' stable levels would mean pinning it EOD, due to the short chain propionate de-esterifying much quicker than the other esters. Initially thought this would provide a quick release/response and then still release test from other forms of esters at the ‘correct’ rate to give fairly stable blood levels for upto 7 days, but really – even pinning E3D fluctuates the day to day levels of test being released.
So, as you said, id have to inject EOD for this to be an optimum approach... IMO i don’t think its really worth all that for me to end up injecting every so often on my first cycle. (its not im afraid of injecting or stuff...but it sounds it may get a bit ‘messy’ – with HCG aswell, ill end up nearly having to inject every day – increasing risks of infections etc).
So, I think im resorting back to my initial thoughts for Test E, and the plan should look something like this:

As with the AI, I was thinking maybe it should be enough just whilst i start up, especially on the dbol with regards to bloating/water retention, thereafter i would only take it if the signs appear (which thinking about it most likely will as you said) and also will have nolva at hand for tackling with signs of gyno along with it.
I have amended the Arimidex and seems no harm in running it throughout the cycle ...also with the loading phase in week 1 to maximise estrogen inhibition whilst test levels peak.

 

[MR SRX]

Looks like a solid plan and sounds like you have a good base. 4 things though...

1. Sust needs to be EOD or your hormones will drop low then spike hard. 125mg eod and you will hit 500mg ew.

2. Don't stop the AI early. It not only keeps estrogen and bloat down but also will keep your LH primed. Run it 1mg ed for week 1 then .25mg ed after that. It will give you a good blood level right away then maintain it. You can even run it through pct and taper it off.

3. HCG is two high. Its unnecessary to run 1000iu ew. 2 shots of 250iu ew (the night before you pin a sust shot) will be plenty to prime you up.

4. Looks like you did your homework and that's just minor stuff I saw. Good job and enjoy brother.

Thanks man, appreciate the advice, ive put up my plan for testE cycle, I know what you mean with the AI, best to run adex throughout entire cycle i suppose. (at first i just thought id keep it at hand and use if sides appeared).
As for the HCG, im not entirely sure on this theres so much mixed reviews on the dosage, I did think it was a rather large mount at first too, but didn’t come across any major risks related to taking such a dose, so thought better than having less as many say low dose may not be sufficient to sort the nuts out!
But taking atleast a higher dose after the last shot of test does seem to make sense to me. As “blasting” the HCG during the Test decline (ie after the last shot of TestE ) will stimulate GNRH. GNRH not only just controls FSH and LH but gives the testicles “materials” to produce natural test. So should do HCG on week 13 as 1000IU (250IU/EOD) ??

 

[DangerDave]

Looks solid bro!!!!

 

[MR SRX]

thanks for the input man, Im just planning my cycle, want to get it all sorted first, as DangerDave said, ive been doing my 'homework'
-Id rather buy my gear according to my plan, rather than set up a plan according to the gear i have.

 

[DangerDave]

thanks for the input man, Im just planning my cycle, want to get it all sorted first, as DangerDave said, ive been doing my 'homework'
-Id rather buy my gear according to my plan, rather than set up a plan according to the gear i have.

No problem. I like it and I think you will see amazing results. I agree I like to buy to a plan instead of piecing it together with odds and ends. Good work.

 

[superbeast668]

I was looking at Sust vs Test E with exactly those points in mind and to be honest I was geared towards test E instead of sust initially... Its just when you think about the different types of esters, (blend of short, mediums and long chains) make it seem like the "long-acting" testosterone, ie. it will release testosterone at different rates over a long period...
looking at the components of sustenon250 ( 30 mgs Testosterone Propionate,60mgs testosterone Phenylpropionate, 60mgs testosterone Isocarproate, 100mgs testosterone Decanoate) - yes, indeed the only way you could maintain 'relatively' stable levels would mean pinning it EOD, due to the short chain propionate de-esterifying much quicker than the other esters. Initially thought this would provide a quick release/response and then still release test from other forms of esters at the ‘correct’ rate to give fairly stable blood levels for upto 7 days, but really – even pinning E3D fluctuates the day to day levels of test being released.
So, as you said, id have to inject EOD for this to be an optimum approach... IMO i don’t think its really worth all that for me to end up injecting every so often on my first cycle. (its not im afraid of injecting or stuff...but it sounds it may get a bit ‘messy’ – with HCG aswell, ill end up nearly having to inject every day – increasing risks of infections etc).
So, I think im resorting back to my initial thoughts for Test E, and the plan should look something like this:

View attachment 56868

As with the AI, I was thinking maybe it should be enough just whilst i start up, especially on the dbol with regards to bloating/water retention, thereafter i would only take it if the signs appear (which thinking about it most likely will as you said) and also will have nolva at hand for tackling with signs of gyno along with it.
I have amended the Arimidex and seems no harm in running it throughout the cycle ...also with the loading phase in week 1 to maximise estrogen inhibition whilst test levels peak.

very solid. that should be one hell of a cycle. you'll be a beast by week 12.

 

[MR SRX]

I know man I don't really know why it happens I just know it does.

1 milliliter of Sustanon 250 Contains:
30 mgs Testosterone Propionate
60mgs testosterone Phenylpropionate
60mgs testosterone Isocaproate
100mgs testosterone Decanoate

The human body is weird in the way it reacts to some things. I have never had a side I can't handle but I got friends that just can't use some kinds just because how they react to it. Weird sh*t but I can't find a study why.

Thats actually got my mind ticking now too, like flossy said, test is test, and sides are same also (maybe different times and concentrations due to the partition coefficients of the esters)...so leaves it down to the ester form perhaps? could it be due to specific binding sites with the esterase enzymes during their hydrolisation? :/ the human body is weird **** indeed lol ...

 

[MR SRX]

feeling excited to start!

 

[MR SRX]

very solid. that should be one hell of a cycle. you'll be a beast by week 12.

hopefully man, gonna take it easy and get all the gear sourced... then start this beast.

 

[DangerDave]

You should log it!

 

[xtraflossy]

You should log it!

2nd this.

It's also good for you, as it almost forces yourself to evaluate the cycle/diet/training constantly


....And we also love us some logs

 

[superbeast668]

2nd this.

It's also good for you, as it almost forces yourself to evaluate the cycle/diet/training constantly

....And we also love us some logs

Agreed. Learning from ones own experience is great. Learning on others experiences is very helpful as well.

 

[MR SRX]

2nd this.

It's also good for you, as it almost forces yourself to evaluate the cycle/diet/training constantly

....And we also love us some logs

Yeah, definitely.
Will log it.. theres just so much that goes on during a cycle, its gonna be to keep a good track on things.
Will start a log as soon as iv got everything and ready to start up.