[Haggerty]

so, 2 months of nolva at 20mg be a bad idea?

[Sky9]

Originally Posted by DR.D

You mean besides liver cancer and DNA damage? Don't even get me started! I guess you can probably see I wish somebody would bring Fareston the the RC game because I hate Nolva, right?
I've talked not only about the studies that show clearly how hepatotoxic Nolva is but also from personal observation of how toxic Nolva is till I'm blue in the face! Nobody wants to hear it. On a practical level, I agree with Size in his on-cycle advise, but it is my observation that SERM works much less effectively in PCT when it has been used all cycle too. At least 1 month should be taken off in between Nolva uses.

So do you think using Fareston is a better choice to use on cycle? Does it have any reprecutions to be worried about?

[DR.D]

Originally Posted by Haggerty

so, 2 months of nolva at 20mg be a bad idea?

No, it's OK. If your young and otherwise healthy and Nolva is all you have, that's fine. Just minimize it's use all you can is my point.

[DR.D]

Originally Posted by Sky9

So do you think using Fareston is a better choice to use on cycle? Does it have any reprecutions to be worried about?

I've never used it on-cycle, but it's a better/healthier choice in general and should be just as good as Nolva for gyno prevention. It's suppose to suppress LH & FSH but I can vouch otherwise. Long term, high dose use does not show overt toxicity like Nolva does.

[Haggerty]

Originally Posted by DR.D

No, it's OK. If your young and otherwise healthy and Nolva is all you have, that's fine. Just minimize it's use all you can is my point.

Ok, TY for the info.. What do you think about Raloxifene, toxicity wise?

[Sky9]

If I may take a more granular look at this topic. What is your guys (especially Dr.D's) opinion of what to use while on cycle (10weeks +) for estrogen/gyno control.

Is it better to use an AI or a SERM while on cycle? Is one better than the other for controlling estrogen/prolactin/progesterone?

Im just wondering if it is better for me to use an AI like anastrozole, letrozole, or exemestane; or a SERM like Nolva, Clomid, Raloxifene while on cycle to keep from getting gyno. Dr.D Im looking at you right now, haha, need your experience here.

[DR.D]

Originally Posted by Haggerty

Ok, TY for the info.. What do you think about Raloxifene, toxicity wise?

It's one of the cleanest/safest around IMO. I've kept up with one woman in particular who has been on it at least 3 or 4 years now and her bloodwork looks great everytime she gets it done. I've used it with good success for gyno abortion at doses as high as 180mg/d for ~1 month and it's smooth mentally too. No libido probs either. Not so great for PCT, unless your taking at least 240mg/d though.

[Haggerty]

Great Info once again Dr. D TY

so u suggest doses at 180mg for a month + on Raloxifene to solve gyno?

[DR.D]

Originally Posted by Sky9

If I may take a more granular look at this topic. What is your guys (especially Dr.D's) opinion of what to use while on cycle (10weeks +) for estrogen/gyno control...

An AI for sure. Raloxifene or any of the "fixed ring" SERMs with low toxicity and a short half life is OK, but Nolva, Fareston and Clomid are not as well suited IMO and should be reserved for PCT or only used on cycle if that's all you have. I personally like low dose letro (like 0.1-0.25mg/d), Teslac @ 250+mg/d, ATD @ 50-75mg/d or 4OHT cyp @ ~300mg/wk. I hear that anastrazole is also effective at 1mg/d and so is Examestane at 25-50mg/d but have not tried them yet. AI's are perfect for on cycle use.

[DR.D]

Originally Posted by Haggerty

Great Info once again Dr. D TY

so u suggest doses at 180mg for a month + on Raloxifene to solve gyno?

Anytime bro!
Yeah, it works great especially stacked with an AI. It works just as well and as fast as 60mg Nolva would in my experience. Plus, with a 24hr half-life and low metabolite accumulation, you don't have that long commitment and high toxicity like you do with Nolva (4-5day half-life with estrogenic and hepatotoxic 4-hydroxy metabolites)

[Sky9]

Originally Posted by DR.D

An AI for sure. Raloxifene or any of the "fixed ring" SERMs with low toxicity and a short half life is OK, but Nolva, Fareston and Clomid are not as well suited IMO and should be reserved for PCT or only used on cycle if that's all you have. I personally like low dose letro (like 0.1-0.25mg/d), Teslac @ 250+mg/d, ATD @ 50-75mg/d or 4OHT cyp @ ~300mg/wk. I hear that anastrazole is also effective at 1mg/d and so is Examestane at 25-50mg/d but have not tried them yet. AI's are perfect for on cycle use.

So using both on cycle would be acceptable, now I just have to choose a good AI to go with the raloxifene. Also, what is an acceptable dose of raloxifene to use for 10+weeks? Thanks for your help with this. Its really nice to know that there are people around here to help with these types of questions.

[DR.D]

Sky9,
You could go cheap on the Ral @ 60mg/d just to clean up the leftovers for 0.2mg/d of letro (very cost efficient at that dose) or 50mg of ATD (Rebound) split in 2 daily doses. Any more than 60mg would probably just be a waste because your AI is going to be doing most of the work preventing estrogen formation in the first place. I don't mind helping out, if I can, so feel free to ask.

[TryinToGetBIG]

Originally Posted by DR.D

Sky9,
You could go cheap on the Ral @ 60mg/d just to clean up the leftovers for 0.2mg/d of letro (very cost efficient at that dose) or 50mg of ATD (Rebound) split in 2 daily doses. Any more than 60mg would probably just be a waste because your AI is going to be doing most of the work preventing estrogen formation in the first place. I don't mind helping out, if I can, so feel free to ask.

what are your thoughts on the effectiveness of ATD? thx

[DR.D]

75mg/d solo, maybe more or a little less depending on your metabolism.

[Sky9]

My only negative observation with ATD is that it seems to make my libido dip down, even at low dosages of 25-50mgED. However, it does seem to make a difference with gyno related issues.