Statins and Steroids

[KBD]

Ok ive searched all over forums trying to find a answer to this and i cant get a straight answer.

I went to the doc and got my bloodwork done, my cholesterol is A-OK everything is fine, but what is high is my triglycerides. They were at 350.


My doc wants me to take Simvastatin 20mg for 3 months to lower it as he says that I cant lower it naturally which i think is bull****. But if i do have to take this medication I am going to stay on cycle, Test and my Dbol, do these statins cause muscle loss? Has anyone taken statins while on cycle?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Statins are an option for high triglycerides, but I'd be willing to bet you can lower it naturally. No harm in trying a cycle of Heart-Help(clinically proven to decrease Triglycerides by 38.8%).

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/iforce-nutrition/heart-help-60-capsules.html



In the clinical study they actually showed Heart Help in conjunction with a statin to observe effects. Check it out!


edit: here is a link to directly view the results of the clinical study: http://www.patagonia-goodness-maquiberry.com/The-Science-of-Bergamot.html

 

[KBD]

Statins are an option for high triglycerides, but I'd be willing to bet you can lower it naturally. No harm in trying a cycle of Heart-Help(clinically proven to decrease Triglycerides by 38.8%).

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/iforce-nutrition/heart-help-60-capsules.html



In the clinical study they actually showed Heart Help in conjunction with a statin to observe effects. Check it out!


edit: here is a link to directly view the results of the clinical study: http://www.patagonia-goodness-maquiberry.com/The-Science-of-Bergamot.html

Well my doc is saying that they are really high and saying that doing it natural "Wont help the situation". Which I think is bullsheeet lol.

But that doesnt answer my question, would using statins cause muscle breakdown? Or im sure there is Pro Bodybuilders who use statins??

 

[VaughnTrue]

Well my doc is saying that they are really high and saying that doing it natural "Wont help the situation". Which I think is bullsheeet lol.

But that doesnt answer my question, would using statins cause muscle breakdown? Or im sure there is Pro Bodybuilders who use statins??

Technically, yes statins can effect muscle growth due to protein synthesis issues as well as causing joint soreness(which inhibits heavy lifting).

That being said, if you're on a cycle of gear, the growth difference would not be measurable on statin or off statin...we're talking about micro percentages here.

 

[KBD]

Technically, yes statins can effect muscle growth due to protein synthesis issues as well as causing joint soreness(which inhibits heavy lifting).

That being said, if you're on a cycle of gear, the growth difference would not be measurable on statin or off statin...we're talking about micro percentages here.

Oh ok so it wouldnt be a noticable difference. So me taking this statin for 3 months isnt going to cause me to widdle away then. Can i still make muscle gains while on the statin?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Yes, you can still gain while on statins.


Just do your research. Statins are NO joke, and I highly suggest taking a natural route before diving in head first. Either way, make sure you get a 2nd opinion from another doctor just to make sure they have you on the right plan.


best of luck!

 

[KBD]

Yes, you can still gain while on statins.


Just do your research. Statins are NO joke, and I highly suggest taking a natural route before diving in head first. Either way, make sure you get a 2nd opinion from another doctor just to make sure they have you on the right plan.


best of luck!

I heard that eating a teaspoon of cinnamon every day can actually lower the triglycerides along with a good diet.

 

[JudoJosh]

Ok ive searched all over forums trying to find a answer to this and i cant get a straight answer.

I went to the doc and got my bloodwork done, my cholesterol is A-OK everything is fine, but what is high is my triglycerides. They were at 350.

lower simple sugar intake (specifically fructose) and eliminate trans fat

My doc wants me to take Simvastatin 20mg for 3 months to lower it as he says that I cant lower it naturally which i think is bull****.

Yes it is bull.

But if i do have to take this medication I am going to stay on cycle, Test and my Dbol, do these statins cause muscle loss? Has anyone taken statins while on cycle?

It is possible that a HMG-CoA reductase inhibitor can result in lower test production considering cholesterol is the backbone of all steroidal hormones,and HMG-CoA reductase is the rate-limiting enzyme in cholesterol biosynthesis.

I cant imagine it negatively affecting a cycle using exogenous steroids

 

[av6258]

The only problem could be pathway metabolization. Most statins travel through the liver via CYP3A4 or CYP2C9. I dont know which pathways most orals go through but I would want to know if I were you. Before a statin I would try the natural route or you could ask your doc about Lovaza, which is a new prescription strength fish oil that has studies really dropping those trigylcerides. Good Luck dude.

 

[KBD]

lower simple sugar intake (specifically fructose) and eliminate trans fat



Yes it is bull.



It is possible that a HMG-CoA reductase inhibitor can result in lower test production considering cholesterol is the backbone of all steroidal hormones,and HMG-CoA reductase is the rate-limiting enzyme in cholesterol biosynthesis.

I cant imagine it negatively affecting a cycle using exogenous steroids

Well i am changing my diet to brown rice sweet potatoes and oatmeal and fruits for carbs. Also going to be taking fish oils, garlic extract and a teaspoon of cinnamon a day.

Yeah i stay on test all year around so i dont see it negatively effecting exogenous hormones either. I was just wondering if i could still grow if i had to take that statin.

 

[Grambo]

Interesting he went straight to statins. There are other things that are more first line for triglycerides if your LDL is in check. Particularly Simvastatin.

Fish Oil 2-4g
Niacin work up to 2,000mg, at night with food and may need to take some things to reduce the flush.

 

[Conte]

Yes statins cause muscle loss, I red an article about it recently in MD magazine and he suggest Niacin before bed, but niacin is OTC.


while on cycle? I don’t know... probably reduce the results.


I found this:

However, a 2011 study (AIM-HIGH) was halted early because patients showed no decrease in cardiovascular events, but did experience an increase in the risk of stroke. These patients already had LDL levels well-controlled by a statin drug, and the aim of the study was to evaluate slow-release niacin (2000 mg per day) to see if raising HDL levels had an additional positive effect on risk. In this study, it did not have such an effect, and appeared to increase stroke risk.[SUP][18][/SUP] The role of niacin in patients whose LDL is not well-controlled (as in the majority of previous studies with niacin) is still under study and debate. However, it does not seem to offer benefits via raising HDL, in patients already lowering LDL by taking a statin.





Stay away from Statins
The use of statins (drugs used to lower cholesterol) is associated with a reduced testis volume and a higher prevalence of hypogonadism-related symptoms and signs; also, statin users have lower levels of total and calculated free T.(5) So if you happen to be taking these drugs, don’t be surprised that in addition to lowering your cholesterol, it’ll lower the ability of your private parts to ‘stand at attention.’ And that ain’t good.
statins (e.g. Lipitor[SUP]®[/SUP]), may reduce testosterone by reducing the available pool of cholesterol to use in steroidogenesis. Data are conflicting at this time, but it appears that while total testosterone may be reduced, bioavailable testosterone is not affected.[SUP]12,13[/SUP] Men started on statins who experience symptoms of androgen deficiency may wish to be more diligent in monitoring testosterone concentrations through their physicians.
Anabolic Edge by Jose Antonio, Ph.D.

 

[KBD]

Interesting he went straight to statins. There are other things that are more first line for triglycerides if your LDL is in check. Particularly Simvastatin.

Fish Oil 2-4g
Niacin work up to 2,000mg, at night with food and may need to take some things to reduce the flush.

I didnt go straight to statins my doctor did, he said its too late to lower my triglycerides naturally. Saying my Cholesterol was fine at 24, but my triglycerides being high at 350. I was going to Take Flaxseed and Fishoils with 2 teaspoons of cinnamon a day. Ill throw the Niacin in with it.

 

[Conte]

I didnt go straight to statins my doctor did, he said its too late to lower my triglycerides naturally. Saying my Cholesterol was fine at 24, but my triglycerides being high at 350. I was going to Take Flaxseed and Fishoils with 2 teaspoons of cinnamon a day. Ill throw the Niacin in with it.

Maybe you should start that for 1-2 weeks and u should go for second professional opinion soon after another blood work.

But I think statins is the best and the only available medical solution for high cholesterol.
My mother uses statins for years but she takes pills for osteoporosis as well because she has osteoporosis.
Maybe you should advice an endocrinologist as well and ask him for something to protect your muscles and your test from statins.
statins are toxic as well but not so harmful

 

[Grambo]

I didnt go straight to statins my doctor did, he said its too late to lower my triglycerides naturally. Saying my Cholesterol was fine at 24, but my triglycerides being high at 350. I was going to Take Flaxseed and Fishoils with 2 teaspoons of cinnamon a day. Ill throw the Niacin in with it.

I was questioning your doctors choice.

Niacin you don't use the time released kind. It increases hepatotoxicity.

 

[Grambo]

Not sure what too late means? I mean they are pretty high but you haven't even tried lowering them really.

 

[BBB]

If you want to avoid synthetic satins try Red Yeast Rice. It's technically a natural statin but I prefer natural over synthetic.

 

[KBD]

Not sure what too late means? I mean they are pretty high but you haven't even tried lowering them really.

Ive read where fish oils 3-4 caps a day have significantly lowered triglycerides from 800 range to about 150-200. So im at 350, yeah thats high but there have been MUCH higher numbers. Thats where i dont understand my doctors logic, ive read where people have a 800+ triglyceride level and they take fish oils and flaxseed and they are normal in 2-3 months. But he says i NEED to take this medication. For what reason I dont know because my cholesterol is fine, its just high triglycerides.

I do want to go a natural route, but im scared it wont work and then ill be at risk for heart attack or some ****.

Maybe you should start that for 1-2 weeks and u should go for second professional opinion soon after another blood work.

But I think statins is the best and the only available medical solution for high cholesterol.
My mother uses statins for years but she takes pills for osteoporosis as well because she has osteoporosis.
Maybe you should advice an endocrinologist as well and ask him for something to protect your muscles and your test from statins.
statins are toxic as well but not so harmful

Im on 750mg of Test and 50mg dbol and Transdermal Tren, so maybe muscle should be ok?

 

[KBD]

K so i bought

Fish Oils
Flaxseed Oil
Red Yeast Rice
and Garlic Extract

Take these for about 2 months and get levels tested?

Was gonna do 3 of each. I hear garlic is good for cholesterol (mine is already good anyways) maintenance.

Hopefully the Fish/Flaxseed Oils and the RYR will lower my triglycerides?

 

[Grambo]

At 350 and good cholesterol and being active your not at any risk of an immediate heart attack or anything.

Cholesterol is not a very good indicator of ischemic risk anyway.

 

[Grambo]

2 months is probably enough time to get them checked and see where you are.

I would seriously go with Niacin as well, it was made into an RX drug for a reason so it is FDA indicated for lowering trigs.

 

[KBD]

At 350 and good cholesterol and being active your not at any risk of an immediate heart attack or anything.

Cholesterol is not a very good indicator of ischemic risk anyway.

Ok so just stick with 3 fish oils a day with a flaxseed before bed and Red yeast Rice 2x daily?

 

[Grambo]

Ok so just stick with 3 fish oils a day with a flaxseed before bed and Red yeast Rice 2x daily?

See above what I wrote about Niacin, this is a biggie IMO

Whatever fish oil you got take in 4 grams. Flaxseed I don't have a thought on and RYR go with what the product says.

 

[KBD]

See above what I wrote about Niacin, this is a biggie IMO

Whatever fish oil you got take in 4 grams. Flaxseed I don't have a thought on and RYR go with what the product says.

Ok so u think if I follow this and a cleaner diet ill def see a drop in triglycerides??

And u think its ok to take niacin with all the fish oil and such

 

[Grambo]

Real answer: maybe, I couldn't guarantee you anything. Some people's genetics predispose them to high CHOL/TRIGs but these are the best things you can do to try. The diet would be to cut out processed carbs and sugar.

There should not be any negative effects with the combination. Only possible thing is there's no telling how much natural lovastatin is in RYR so the combination could increase muscle soreness. Would t think about it to much but is a possibility.

 

[heebs10]

Well my doc is saying that they are really high and saying that doing it natural "Wont help the situation". Which I think is bullsheeet lol.

But that doesnt answer my question, would using statins cause muscle breakdown? Or im sure there is Pro Bodybuilders who use statins??

dude, 20 mg of simvastatin is not going to cause muscle break down for you. maybe a 95 year old man might experience this but realistically, 20 mg is a low dose and you probably wont notice anything. the most common complaint with statins is joint or muscle pain but this doesnt mean its breaking muscle down and this doesnt happen to everyone. and yes, im fully aware that statins CAN cause rhabdomyolysis, but this is very rare and more even more so at low doses

 

[heebs10]

Ive read where fish oils 3-4 caps a day have significantly lowered triglycerides from 800 range to about 150-200. So im at 350, yeah thats high but there have been MUCH higher numbers. Thats where i dont understand my doctors logic, ive read where people have a 800+ triglyceride level and they take fish oils and flaxseed and they are normal in 2-3 months. But he says i NEED to take this medication. For what reason I dont know because my cholesterol is fine, its just high triglycerides.

I do want to go a natural route, but im scared it wont work and then ill be at risk for heart attack or some ****.




Im on 750mg of Test and 50mg dbol and Transdermal Tren, so maybe muscle should be ok?

theres absolutely no chance of you loosing muscle while running this cycle and on 3 months of statins. even if you were on just the test, that is farrr more then enough to preserve and actually still gain muscle on a statin

 

[KBD]

I was just nervous that I wouldn't be able to gain muscle while on the statin and I also heard statins are bad and the natural way should be tried first

 

[KBD]

So this is what im gonna do

Red Yeast Rice 2x daily (4 caps)
Fish Oil 3 Caps per day
and 1 Flaxseed Before i go to bed with a meal.

Also taking a Multi vitamin as well.

I read a lot of posts where people say they dropped their triglycerides from 500 to 150 with Red Yeast Rice and Fish Oils for 3 months. I have very good cholesterol so thats at least something i dont have to worry about, plus the Fish Oils also help with that anyways so it may raise my good cholesterol even more!

 

[mikeg313]

From my recent personal experience I was given pravastatin while on my test e cycle after a unrelated heart attack. I lowered my dosage of test after my issue an continued to ride out the cycle in order not to throw my body into a hormonal back flip while recovering.

Anyway I started on the pravastatin and within two weeks I noticed I dropped alot of water weight and when I got back into the gym my strength was the same as where I left off but my joints ached and I had bad muscle fatigue within short time of lifting. My elbows were the worst. I did some research and found some others that experienced the same and worse. Maybe you'll be luckier on it but if not there's plenty of other options .

 

[KBD]

From my recent personal experience I was given pravastatin while on my test e cycle after a unrelated heart attack. I lowered my dosage of test after my issue an continued to ride out the cycle in order not to throw my body into a hormonal back flip while recovering.

Anyway I started on the pravastatin and within two weeks I noticed I dropped alot of water weight and when I got back into the gym my strength was the same as where I left off but my joints ached and I had bad muscle fatigue within short time of lifting. My elbows were the worst. I did some research and found some others that experienced the same and worse. Maybe you'll be luckier on it but if not there's plenty of other options .

UNrelated heart attack? so it had nothign to do with Juice or the reason you were taking the medication for?

 

[Ratiocinative]

No one should ever take statins, in my opinion. They are not safe, and what benefit they do provide is minimal at best. For example, one trial showed an relative CVD event decrease of 12%, absolute 1.1%, while at the same time a relative Breast Cancer increase of 1,200%, absolute 4.2%. Doubtful you're at risk for death from breast cancer, but still disturbing nonetheless.

I'm not sure what supplements might help, maybe cinnamon or ALA? As far as lifestyle choices go though, the best way to promote healthy triglyceride levels is to eat infrequent, large, fatty meals (animal, not vegetable). Fasting or going no-carb for a few days can give your insulin sensitivity a huge boost, which will also significantly improve your body's ability to maintain proper triglyceride levels.

 

[mikeg313]

UNrelated heart attack? so it had nothign to do with Juice or the reason you were taking the medication for?

According to the cardiologist it had nothing to do with the juice and was a stress induced heart attack. Which in my case wasnt a surprise.

 

[heebs10]

No one should ever take statins, in my opinion. They are not safe, and what benefit they do provide is minimal at best. For example, one trial showed an relative CVD event decrease of 12%, absolute 1.1%, while at the same time a relative Breast Cancer increase of 1,200%, absolute 4.2%. Doubtful you're at risk for death from breast cancer, but still disturbing nonetheless.

I'm not sure what supplements might help, maybe cinnamon or ALA? As far as lifestyle choices go though, the best way to promote healthy triglyceride levels is to eat infrequent, large, fatty meals (animal, not vegetable). Fasting or going no-carb for a few days can give your insulin sensitivity a huge boost, which will also significantly improve your body's ability to maintain proper triglyceride levels.

this is ludicrous. i believe that you are referencing a real journal article but there are always outlier studies that completely go against the trend of research. statins are truly live-saving drugs when used in the right populations. think about the individual who has familial hypercholestrolemia with an LDL of 300+. someone with this risk factor will surely have a massive heart attack by the time their 50 but probably even way before that. even if they do live a completely healthy lifestyle, there are still no other means of bringing this LDL to a safe level, even with perfect diet, exercise and a ****tail of all other nonstatin cholesterol medications. statins are the king of cholesterol medications. they are not for everyone though. many experience harsh side effects. others are put on statins when its not needed. in general though, the benefits of stains (when used correctly and in the correct populations) far out weigh the potential side effects.

 

[heebs10]

So this is what im gonna do

Red Yeast Rice 2x daily (4 caps)
Fish Oil 3 Caps per day
and 1 Flaxseed Before i go to bed with a meal.

Also taking a Multi vitamin as well.

I read a lot of posts where people say they dropped their triglycerides from 500 to 150 with Red Yeast Rice and Fish Oils for 3 months. I have very good cholesterol so thats at least something i dont have to worry about, plus the Fish Oils also help with that anyways so it may raise my good cholesterol even more!

dude, you can try diet modification and fish oil but if that doesnt work, i recommend using your doctor recommended statin. its only for 3 months, not a lifetime. if you experience bad side effects, you can always discontinue it.

Red yeast rice IS a statin. using this would really be no different then using an RX statin, besides the fact that RYR is unregulated and you dont know the concentration it contains. RYR contains the statin Lovastatin, which is a very commonly prescribed statin, just like simvastatin and atorvastatin (AKA zocor and lipitor).

 

[JudoJosh]

Well i am changing my diet to brown rice sweet potatoes and oatmeal and fruits for carbs.

Note my suggestion for limiting fructose intake

I do want to go a natural route, but im scared it wont work and then ill be at risk for heart attack or some ****.

Ask for a VAP test. If your LDL isnt comprissed of mostly the small denser particiles then you should be find. Remember it is oxidation which is the true risk of for cardio problems

K so i bought

Fish Oils
Flaxseed Oil
Red Yeast Rice
and Garlic Extract

Take these for about 2 months and get levels tested?

Was gonna do 3 of each. I hear garlic is good for cholesterol (mine is already good anyways) maintenance.

Hopefully the Fish/Flaxseed Oils and the RYR will lower my triglycerides?

Dont take RYR. The active in RYR, monacolin K is lovastatin, aka Mevacor and it comes with all the potential liabilities of that drug.

Also I am not a fan of flaxseed use due to its impact on androgen levels

Ok so u think if I follow this and a cleaner diet ill def see a drop in triglycerides??

And u think its ok to take niacin with all the fish oil and such

The problem is what defines a "clean diet" I am a advocate of the paleo diet and would suggest you look into that and also go check out Dr. Eades site, Mark Sisson site, and the heart scan blog for some good information

this is ludicrous. i believe that you are referencing a real journal article but there are always outlier studies that completely go against the trend of research. statins are truly live-saving drugs when used in the right populations. think about the individual who has familial hypercholestrolemia with an LDL of 300+. someone with this risk factor will surely have a massive heart attack by the time their 50 but probably even way before that. even if they do live a completely healthy lifestyle, there are still no other means of bringing this LDL to a safe level, even with perfect diet, exercise and a ****tail of all other nonstatin cholesterol medications. statins are the king of cholesterol medications. they are not for everyone though. many experience harsh side effects. others are put on statins when its not needed. in general though, the benefits of stains (when used correctly and in the correct populations) far out weigh the potential side effects.

Several problems with your post.

1. LDL isnt necessairly indicitive of CVD risk

2. Statins do lower total cholerterol and also LDL BUT they lower the wrong type of LDL

3. Statins have not been proven to work for anyone except men over 65 who have already had a heart attack

4. familial heterozygous hypercholesterolemia is about the only group of people who may benefit from a statin but overall statins are horribly overprescribed, overhyped, and overused in the general population and yes in most cases they do more harm than good

 

[KBD]

Yes but RYR is a natural statin much safer than a chemical statin...

I am changing my carbs from simple to complex... Whole wheat pasta, sweet potatoes, oatmeal vegetables..

While also using 3-4 Fish Oil Gels a day with a Flaxseed before bed, as far as impacting androgen levels. Im pretty sure On synthetic Test and Tren, androgen levels arent going to be suppressed much from a OTC supplement.

What about Garlic Extract.

And my LDL and HDL levels are A-ok, jsut triglycerides are high.

 

[Ratiocinative]

this is ludicrous. i believe that you are referencing a real journal article but there are always outlier studies that completely go against the trend of research. statins are truly live-saving drugs when used in the right populations. think about the individual who has familial hypercholestrolemia with an LDL of 300+. someone with this risk factor will surely have a massive heart attack by the time their 50 but probably even way before that. even if they do live a completely healthy lifestyle, there are still no other means of bringing this LDL to a safe level, even with perfect diet, exercise and a ****tail of all other nonstatin cholesterol medications. statins are the king of cholesterol medications. they are not for everyone though. many experience harsh side effects. others are put on statins when its not needed. in general though, the benefits of stains (when used correctly and in the correct populations) far out weigh the potential side effects.

OP doesn't have high cholesterol, nor is high cholesterol a strong risk factor for heart attack anyway. It's the size of the particle that matters. High triglycerides aren't going to kill you in a few months, or even a few years, so it's completely safe and well worth it for the OP to try lifestyle changes first for at least a month or two. Statins might possibly be better than doing nothing if the person is in imminent danger of a heart attack, but I completely disagree that properly lifestyle choices can't prevent/reverse such a situation.

Here is one example of fasting decreasing triglyceride levels. In fact, I wouldn't even really call it fasting. I consider fasting 48+ hours without food. Dinner one night to dinner two nights later. In this study they're still eating every day, maybe twice a day. Not 100% sure how Ramadan works.

medicaljournal-ias.org/Belgelerim/Belge/AsgaryJFOSCHQMFB10972.pdf

 

[av6258]

Statins are by NO MEANS ridiculous when used in patients that they are indicated for....as heebs said. Yes they are over prescribed. However they do much more good than ever harm. They other thing people forget is that these statin studies have over 10k patients showing positive results in not only LDL reduction but some reversing athro as well. Also the warnings you see are blown far out of proportion. Example: if a study of 10k patients is on 10mg of Lipitor. For maths sake let's say 5k are the statin and 5k are placebo. 1% of the placebo pop develops cancer and 1.2% of the statin pop develops cancer. The FDA REQUIRES drug companies to say the drug is cancer causing. Yet both of these individuals would have gotten cancer REGARDLESS. It is a twisted system that alot of the time leaves the public misinformed. Just remember. Not all drugs are bad. Many save alot of lives.