Wet bulking PH

Lankeyguy15

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Hi Guys getting close to 2nd cycle. What is another good wet ph or ph for bulk. My first cycle was p-mag..I went from 180 to 195 and Im at 183-185 right now. i want something of that sort where I can keep the weight and get more strength. I lost most of the weight because I got sick and stopped eating correctly. One that was suggested was helladrol, what else is out there?
 

aceroni

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i dont do prohormones at all- but i just watched my buddy take mdrol, and he got bloated as ****. prob gained 10-15 lbs.. obv alot was water wet bloat weight but of course he gained muscle from it too..
 
heavylifter33

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mlmg packs on the pounds pretty well, as does dzine. The two together are a formidable stack, potent, but pretty toxic. M14add is another option, but i'd use it in conjunction with another PH/DS product, not as a stand-alone.
 

SweetLou321

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6'3 180-185. No need for Phs. Try eating more, spend any money you were gonna spend on supps/phs on food. Try it for a couple years.
 

Lankeyguy15

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6'3 180-185. No need for Phs. Try eating more, spend any money you were gonna spend on supps/phs on food. Try it for a couple years.
IVe tried 4300 on workout and 3500 on non workout with 500g carbs and 200 protein..still not one pound, and i get sick with that much. I just want more cycle and then just cut and get stronger.

I want a PH that is not very toxic and is a step above p-mag in weight gain and strength
 

aceroni

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honestly bro not trying to be rude but i agree with sweet lou 100% you're obviously not doing something right if you're sitting at 6 3 180 after already doing one ph cycle and looking at another one....
how about you sit down, go online and write yourself a program and get your diet in check.. clearly you need to fix your macros. who the **** eats 500g carbs a day...
and only 200g pro?
do you EVEN count fat.. dude, fat matters big tiime...
try to hit something more along the lines of 350-400carbs 100-150-maybe even 200 fats (idk some ppl respond better to higher fats..) and 300g pro..
right now you're just not seeing gains because youre either a- not training right or b- not eating right or c- the worst option- both.
 

SweetLou321

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IVe tried 4300 on workout and 3500 on non workout with 500g carbs and 200 protein..still not one pound, and i get sick with that much. I just want more cycle and then just cut and get stronger.

I want a PH that is not very toxic and is a step above p-mag in weight gain and strength
Phs are not a short cut for poor work ethic. You will never be big, strong, and lean with that attitude. Im 5'8 210lbs. I eat above 4000 cals everyday roughly 250-275g pro, 300-400g carbs, 150-200g fats. It took a good year to go from 185 to 210 for me. So maybe youd be better off making a diet thread in the nutrition forum and a training thread in the training forum. Smart ppl in both that will go out of their ways to help you. Im trying to be nice here.
 
ReyMan

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He's still gonna run a cycle no matter what we tell him.


Anyways OP, you want bulkers then DMZ and mlmg together is good. Superdrol and Trenazone is a great cycle, I did it in January
 
heavylifter33

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Hmm, didn't even look at OP's stats, but if i did, i would have said the same thing as Lou.

OP, if you "think" you're eating a lot but not gaining weight, you're not eating a lot. Our bodies are simple. Eat above maintenance and you'll gain weight, eat below maintenance and you'll lose weight. Most likely you simply "think" you're eating 4k or whatever cals, but you're not. I'm going to guess that with a moderate level of activity, your maintenance level is roughly 3100-3300 cals. If you were in fact eating 4k cals daily you would be gaining over a pound a week. Count your calories, write everything down meticulously for a few days and i think you'll find you over value your food.
 
Tansui

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Bodytype and BF has everything to do with everything. 6'3" 180 can be very ready for a cycle or nowhere near ready. Consider guys like Russell Westbrook (6'3" 187) and George Hill (6'2" 180). Aside from the fact that they are really young guys and competitive athletes what other reason would you give them not to use a cycle to gain that wouldn't apply to every other person on this or any site? I don't know if the OP's bodytype is in this mold or not but I can say for certain that mine is... I'm not as genetically gifted of course, but keep in mind that Jordan at 6'6" only weighed 195lbs. I would hope that people would not paint with such a broad stroke, not all guys that are 6 ft plus and under 200 lbs are out of shape.



Westbrook 6'3" 187lbs


Hill 6'2" 180 lbs
 
jbryand101b

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Not sure why you are comparing basket ball players with bodybuilders, but I agree with what you are saying.

Op just doesn't know enough about steroids yet, and meds to continue reading and learning before he takes the plunge of no return.
Its like a lays, bet you can't just do one....
 
Tansui

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I agree he's not as knowledgeable as he should be and that's a pretty good indicator of poor discipline in my mind. It just seemed as though the chief reason people were giving him as to why he shouldn't cycle was his size. I find that position to be a bit short sighted. Lol I used basketball players because they best illustrated my point. The vast majority of top basketball players are weight trainers also.
 
kevinhy

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IVe tried 4300 on workout and 3500 on non workout with 500g carbs and 200 protein..still not one pound, and i get sick with that much. I just want more cycle and then just cut and get stronger.

I want a PH that is not very toxic and is a step above p-mag in weight gain and strength
A step above p-mag - Methyl clostebol.

P-mag converts to methyl clostebol, so its in theory the more potent of the two.
 

Lankeyguy15

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I keep track of everything and I think maybe Im not getting enough fat in my diet along with protein. Carbs and calories seem good, but I think the fat is not there, healthy fat that is. I have been training for 5 years and max on bench is 315. I know what Im doing, I just was asking about my next ph. Right now im doing a no ph recomp to get back my weight to a good base. I know i need to get my protein up, but i need to find a way to do it because im strapped with time, since I go to school full time and work part time. I understand what you are all saying and I will try to get more protein and fats in before I run my next cycle.
 

Lankeyguy15

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Hmm, didn't even look at OP's stats, but if i did, i would have said the same thing as Lou.

OP, if you "think" you're eating a lot but not gaining weight, you're not eating a lot. Our bodies are simple. Eat above maintenance and you'll gain weight, eat below maintenance and you'll lose weight. Most likely you simply "think" you're eating 4k or whatever cals, but you're not. I'm going to guess that with a moderate level of activity, your maintenance level is roughly 3100-3300 cals. If you were in fact eating 4k cals daily you would be gaining over a pound a week. Count your calories, write everything down meticulously for a few days and i think you'll find you over value your food.
I know I am eating 4200 because I keep track on a app on my Iphone which allows me to scan all products and know the fats to protein I eat daily.
 

808shredded

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Rtd drinks as well as the bars is great for on the run nutrition. Get a good product with high protein and fats. Also take along a Natty or almond butter, when can 1 tbsp will provide good fats along with energy. U can tailor these according to your goals cut/bulk.
 
heavylifter33

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I know I am eating 4200 because I keep track on a app on my Iphone which allows me to scan all products and know the fats to protein I eat daily.

I don't know what to tell you, you're doing something wrong. If you are in fact 500-700 calories over maintenance on most days, you WILL gain weight.

You need be less concerned with individual macronutrients, for example saying you think maybe you need more fat, than you should be with overall caloric intake. The body can gain weight off 40g of fat a day just like it can on 100g of fat daily. Case in point, i have a refeed day where i eat 500g carbs and 40g fat, and i'll gain weight. The body is both immensely complicated, and yet simple.
 
csa2179

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m14add/dzine/tren + eating. ull probably need an Ai. i have a ridiculous metabolism, but if i eat 3800 calories i gain around 1/2 to a full pound per week(off cycle). and eat more protein 200grams in not enough
 

FubarFit

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A step above p-mag - Methyl clostebol.

P-mag converts to methyl clostebol, so its in theory the more potent of the two.
Very interesting. Also nobody said lmg. Great bulker non methyl and wet from what I understand. Stack it with h drol and your gold kid.

LMG-25 is a non-methylated and highly orally active anabolic.
LMG-25 is for people looking to put on the most size in the shortest amount of time possible. With LMG users must realize that aromatizable compounds yield the greatest muscle mass and that some estrogen in the body is a good thing. Some estrogen is anabolic and increases cell volumization and therefore protein synthesis, increases IGF-1 and Growth Hormone levels, and too little estrogen kills sex drive.
LMG-25 will give you the size, strength, mass and sheer bulk necessary to take your physique to the next level.
90 Caps
13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10) dien-17-one 25mg
 
Tansui

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...i gain around 1/2 to a full pound per week(off cycle)...
.5-1 lbs per week of LBM while off cycle?! I've never heard of such a thing... that's an ave of 40 lbs per year! If I could do that I would never cycle.

As far as compounds I guess I would say Mecabol, or m14add... Phera or Tren if you can get it... LMB has been around a long time, I've never used it but I don't remember it being anyone's 1st choice. I have to ask why are you looking for wet gains? Most people try to avoid wettness if possible and when it is a side of a given compound most will try to mitigate it as much as they can.
 
ReyMan

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I know I am eating 4200 because I keep track on a app on my Iphone which allows me to scan all products and know the fats to protein I eat daily.
****, whats the name of the app?
 
lastchance

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Does this app also act like a food scale that weighs out all of your cooked food as well. Get real no app is going to be that accurate unless all your food is pre weighed and packed in a wrapper
 

Lankeyguy15

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Does this app also act like a food scale that weighs out all of your cooked food as well. Get real no app is going to be that accurate unless all your food is pre weighed and packed in a wrapper
And a majority is..I just mark down what is on the package and if its more the way i cooked then o well thats cool. if its slightly less and I know this, then I can mess with the portion size.
 

Lankeyguy15

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Ok thanks guys, you guys offered a lot of PH's, but I dont know if for my Second cycle I want to bridge or run a methy and a non methy at the same time. So which PH is a step above P-mag in strength gains, and similar to p-mag in sides..meaning not much if any. Thank You!
 

FubarFit

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.5-1 lbs per week of LBM while off cycle?! I've never heard of such a thing... that's an ave of 40 lbs per year! If I could do that I would never cycle.

As far as compounds I guess I would say Mecabol, or m14add... Phera or Tren if you can get it... LMB has been around a long time, I've never used it but I don't remember it being anyone's 1st choice. I have to ask why are you looking for wet gains? Most people try to avoid wettness if possible and when it is a side of a given compound most will try to mitigate it as much as they can.
Just for personal clarification are these the compounds you would recomend some one they should try EVENTUALLY after they get some experience and natural weight and blood work looks good.
 
GMG760

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I'm surprised nobody has chimed in with the obvious answer. You want some wetter gains and low sides? You want to "keep" the muscle? 500mg of test e.

But here is the deal. You obviously have some more research to do when it comes to gear/ph. Dry compounds tend to lend themselves much more to keepable gains once off cycle, wet compounds are often used as a kickstart to a larger cycle that will harden their gains as they have quick but easily lose-able gains.

I suggest test because it is the best choice for your "qualifications" for the cycle you want to run. I know it's not as readily available, but honestly it's really not an issue to come across of you actually look for it. It might be simpler at first to buy a couple bottles of designers, but in my humble opinion, it will be much better in the long run. Now are you ready to cycle... In my opinion I could care less how big you are, I'd just want you to further educate yourself before you cycle again. If you're ready for a methyl designer, you might as well just run test, you'll like it more, and be better off in the long run, and you'll keep a lot more gains. Just an idea.
 
heavylifter33

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I'm surprised nobody has chimed in with the obvious answer. You want some wetter gains and low sides? You want to "keep" the muscle? 500mg of test e.

But here is the deal. You obviously have some more research to do when it comes to gear/ph. Dry compounds tend to lend themselves much more to keepable gains once off cycle, wet compounds are often used as a kickstart to a larger cycle that will harden their gains as they have quick but easily lose-able gains.

I suggest test because it is the best choice for your "qualifications" for the cycle you want to run. I know it's not as readily available, but honestly it's really not an issue to come across of you actually look for it. It might be simpler at first to buy a couple bottles of designers, but in my humble opinion, it will be much better in the long run. Now are you ready to cycle... In my opinion I could care less how big you are, I'd just want you to further educate yourself before you cycle again. If you're ready for a methyl designer, you might as well just run test, you'll like it more, and be better off in the long run, and you'll keep a lot more gains. Just an idea.
He asked for a PH, which in my mind meant he didn't want to pin AAS. I reckon the other guys in this thread had the same idea, hence no talk of Test.
 

Lankeyguy15

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I'm surprised nobody has chimed in with the obvious answer. You want some wetter gains and low sides? You want to "keep" the muscle? 500mg of test e.

But here is the deal. You obviously have some more research to do when it comes to gear/ph. Dry compounds tend to lend themselves much more to keepable gains once off cycle, wet compounds are often used as a kickstart to a larger cycle that will harden their gains as they have quick but easily lose-able gains.

I suggest test because it is the best choice for your "qualifications" for the cycle you want to run. I know it's not as readily available, but honestly it's really not an issue to come across of you actually look for it. It might be simpler at first to buy a couple bottles of designers, but in my humble opinion, it will be much better in the long run. Now are you ready to cycle... In my opinion I could care less how big you are, I'd just want you to further educate yourself before you cycle again. If you're ready for a methyl designer, you might as well just run test, you'll like it more, and be better off in the long run, and you'll keep a lot more gains. Just an idea.

Thank You and I appreciate this all.
 

Lankeyguy15

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So if dry would allow me to actually keep the gains...Would Helladrol be the best for strength and weight gain as in a dry compound?
 

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^^ Do you HONESTLY think those BB players are ready for steroids? Theyre scrawny... Sure they're ripped, but honestly, LOOK at them.
....
maybe I just have strong opinions as a natural BB, But I believe that roids are only necessary ONCE you have reached your genetic peak (still dont even believe it is NECESSARY).. Otherwise, you're just adding false mass, that you'll lose- once you stop juicing..

Honestly though, the majority of people in the gym and on this site have not reached their genetic potential.. To me- this is sad. Its like a kid who can't wait for xmas, and goes and steals his presents from his parents closet. Very immature, and impatient..

It BLOWS my mind how everyone is looking for a shortcut. Honestly, kind of pathetic.

Like Sweet Lou said- (and idk if he went 185-210 natty but thats impressive, esp in 1 yr) PH and AAS are NOT shortcuts for hard work and hitting your macros day in and day out. Don't cheat yourself kid.
 
fueledpassion

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i dont do prohormones at all- but i just watched my buddy take mdrol, and he got bloated as ****. prob gained 10-15 lbs.. obv alot was water wet bloat weight but of course he gained muscle from it too..
I don't understand people bloating on SD! It makes no sense. Really, it makes me question their diet...must be a filthy diet...gotta be. I could understand bloat if you are using test and/or deca with it but I can't figure out this "bloat" on SD solo cycles. Since I've gotten on SD again (while my blood clears test and eq), I've lost a half inch in the waiste, vascularity has increased greatly, and I've lost significant amounts of water and fat around the mid-section and thighs. Granted, I eat cleaner than most..
 

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Yeah he ate pretty ****ty but i think he was trying to gain as much mass as possible. its funny how he says **** liek "oh im bigger than you".. Cool bro, im natural, and you've already ran mdrol 3times, not to mention years of other offbrand PHs.. Does anyone else agree w/ me that 3 runs of mdrol is equivalent to at least, one mild aas cycle?
 
fueledpassion

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Yeah he ate pretty ****ty but i think he was trying to gain as much mass as possible. its funny how he says **** liek "oh im bigger than you".. Cool bro, im natural, and you've already ran mdrol 3times, not to mention years of other offbrand PHs.. Does anyone else agree w/ me that 3 runs of mdrol is equivalent to at least, one mild aas cycle?
Hard to say...is 3 mdrol's with a dirty diet like one 8 week test prop cycle properly done? Perhaps...

But oral on cycles could never amount to 16-20 weeks of 500mg test-e imo. Gain retentions are much better on injectible cycles due to muscle maturity and adaptation in diet and training.
 
MattPorter

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A filthy diet plus a filthy hormone will give you filthy weight gain.

Super simple.

-Matt
 
pyrobatt

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.5-1 lbs per week of LBM while off cycle?! I've never heard of such a thing... that's an ave of 40 lbs per year! If I could do that I would never cycle.

As far as compounds I guess I would say Mecabol, or m14add... Phera or Tren if you can get it... LMB has been around a long time, I've never used it but I don't remember it being anyone's 1st choice. I have to ask why are you looking for wet gains? Most people try to avoid wettness if possible and when it is a side of a given compound most will try to mitigate it as much as they can.
I gained 14 lbs year 3 of lifting. Yay mesomorphs...
 
ReyMan

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I don't understand people bloating on SD! It makes no sense. Really, it makes me question their diet...must be a filthy diet...gotta be. I could understand bloat if you are using test and/or deca with it but I can't figure out this "bloat" on SD solo cycles. Since I've gotten on SD again (while my blood clears test and eq), I've lost a half inch in the waiste, vascularity has increased greatly, and I've lost significant amounts of water and fat around the mid-section and thighs. Granted, I eat cleaner than most..
100% agreed

Superdrol is just methylated masteron, so one should get really cut up and vascular while still adding mass. Definitely a dry compound from my own experience
 
Matthersby

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^^ Do you HONESTLY think those BB players are ready for steroids? Theyre scrawny... Sure they're ripped, but honestly, LOOK at them.
....
maybe I just have strong opinions as a natural BB, But I believe that roids are only necessary ONCE you have reached your genetic peak (still dont even believe it is NECESSARY).. Otherwise, you're just adding false mass, that you'll lose- once you stop juicing..

Honestly though, the majority of people in the gym and on this site have not reached their genetic potential.. To me- this is sad. Its like a kid who can't wait for xmas, and goes and steals his presents from his parents closet. Very immature, and impatient..

It BLOWS my mind how everyone is looking for a shortcut. Honestly, kind of pathetic.

Like Sweet Lou said- (and idk if he went 185-210 natty but thats impressive, esp in 1 yr) PH and AAS are NOT shortcuts for hard work and hitting your macros day in and day out. Don't cheat yourself kid.
I do like your analogy of stealing Christmas presents. But I wouldn't claim all of those who use aas are attempting to circumvent hard work, proper training and nutrition and 'get Christmas in July'.. News flash- Christmas never comes... not one of us on this site or really many other places has 'arrived' we will likely keep training and eating and reading and resting hoping to achieve the perfect physique, until we get tired of it, or old, or too many other obligations get in the way,etc... We are our own worst critics and most of us will never reach a point where we say 'whelp, this physique right here is flawless, thank God that's over, now I can find a new hobby.' It's just not that cut and dry of an issue. I honestly think if your body only produces a certain amount of creatine and you pick up some mono at *** to accelerate your progress exogenously, you are no different.
 

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LOL bro i wasnt attacking you, or anyone else by any means.. I was just saying how like the OP here was my example.. 6'0" 180lbs and getting on another PH cycle.. But REALLY, you are trying to compare creatine monohydrate to AAS / PH?? Sorry- It doesnt work that well...

It's just my experience from the gym. I see it far too often. Kids are tired of their ****ty training and diets and just want results now, and hop on ****, only to their harm (liver) or (endocrine system) later in life...


EDIT::: but- I do agree with you. Natural or not- I still don't think i'll ever be able to lookat myself and say "wow my physique is perfect"

... but the thing is- i train for the love of it. Improvements are fun, but I train because I ENJOY IT. Im not kidding when i say i get a HIGH in the gym. Its unbelievable, cranking some bassnectar or heavy metal and hitting heavy sets.. The feeling is undescribable...
 

Lankeyguy15

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Im trying to get to 188-190 at least before I start next cycle. That way I have a good base and strength base to work off of
 
Matthersby

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LOL bro i wasnt attacking you, or anyone else by any means.. I was just saying how like the OP here was my example.. 6'0" 180lbs and getting on another PH cycle.. But REALLY, you are trying to compare creatine monohydrate to AAS / PH?? Sorry- It doesnt work that well...

It's just my experience from the gym. I see it far too often. Kids are tired of their ****ty training and diets and just want results now, and hop on ****, only to their harm (liver) or (endocrine system) later in life...

EDIT::: but- I do agree with you. Natural or not- I still don't think i'll ever be able to lookat myself and say "wow my physique is perfect"

... but the thing is- i train for the love of it. Improvements are fun, but I train because I ENJOY IT. Im not kidding when i say i get a HIGH in the gym. Its unbelievable, cranking some bassnectar or heavy metal and hitting heavy sets.. The feeling is undescribable...
I agree with every last word of this.^ Thanks for handling my rant with such class also... :)
 

SweetLou321

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^^ Do you HONESTLY think those BB players are ready for steroids? Theyre scrawny... Sure they're ripped, but honestly, LOOK at them.
....
maybe I just have strong opinions as a natural BB, But I believe that roids are only necessary ONCE you have reached your genetic peak (still dont even believe it is NECESSARY).. Otherwise, you're just adding false mass, that you'll lose- once you stop juicing..

Honestly though, the majority of people in the gym and on this site have not reached their genetic potential.. To me- this is sad. Its like a kid who can't wait for xmas, and goes and steals his presents from his parents closet. Very immature, and impatient..

It BLOWS my mind how everyone is looking for a shortcut. Honestly, kind of pathetic.

Like Sweet Lou said- (and idk if he went 185-210 natty but thats impressive, esp in 1 yr) PH and AAS are NOT shortcuts for hard work and hitting your macros day in and day out. Don't cheat yourself kid.
It was natty, was 20 and went on 21. I also powerlift.
 

SweetLou321

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Im trying to get to 188-190 at least before I start next cycle. That way I have a good base and strength base to work off of
Keep eating then, im sorry your base still sucks at 190.
 
Tansui

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Two positions

A) "Guy A" puts in 5 years of bodybuilding @ 5lbs per tick and gets to 90% of his genetic potential THEN he decides to cycle and add weight that is above what can be maintained with endogenous hormones alone.

B) "Guy B" cross-trains all his life and then decides to educate himself and run a few cycles over a couple of years that bring him to within 90% of his genetic potential, a level that can be maintained with a disciplined routine.

I can understand why "guy A" would look down on "guy B"... but whats really a more healthily sustainable situation?
 

SweetLou321

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I persnally compete in powerlifting and want to total elite. I will avoid using juice as a means to reach this goal as long as I possibly can. There many many many routes in training and diet I still have to explore before juice will ever be the option. I think ppl miss that diet and training will carry you to where you wanna be. I went from a max 350 squat, 225 bench, 405 deadlift at 185 in about 1 year to a max 475 squat, 275 bench, 501 deadlift in competition at a bodyweight of 201. I used basic supps and ate about 3500-5000 cals per day depending on how training was going. This was at 20 years old. Im currently 210 and my latest PRs are a 405 sumo pull with 90lbs chain at the top and 275 for 3 cambered bar bench about 1-2 inch deficit. This is why I oppose juice in this thread bc the op wants to say he has a fast metabolism so he needs juice to gain weight? Only on the boards would you get any real support for this. Go talk to anyone that competes as a bodybuilder or powerlifter and tell them this. You will get laughed at. Drugs will never make up for ones poor work ethic. I once read a story by dave tate about using juice like an ace card. He used football players as an example. If you gotta use juice to go from high school to playing in college youll never make it to pro. If you gotta use it in college to turn pro you wont last long. But if you make it to pro then use it, well you will play for some years and earn the fame and money you wanted. This is just my opinion however, but im almost positive you havent exhausted all types of training, different diets and eating more cals (even dirty cals), and been training for 5-10 plus years.
 

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I persnally compete in powerlifting and want to total elite. I will avoid using juice as a means to reach this goal as long as I possibly can. There many many many routes in training and diet I still have to explore before juice will ever be the option. I think ppl miss that diet and training will carry you to where you wanna be. I went from a max 350 squat, 225 bench, 405 deadlift at 185 in about 1 year to a max 475 squat, 275 bench, 501 deadlift in competition at a bodyweight of 201. I used basic supps and ate about 3500-5000 cals per day depending on how training was going. This was at 20 years old. Im currently 210 and my latest PRs are a 405 sumo pull with 90lbs chain at the top and 275 for 3 cambered bar bench about 1-2 inch deficit. This is why I oppose juice in this thread bc the op wants to say he has a fast metabolism so he needs juice to gain weight? Only on the boards would you get any real support for this. Go talk to anyone that competes as a bodybuilder or powerlifter and tell them this. You will get laughed at. Drugs will never make up for ones poor work ethic. I once read a story by dave tate about using juice like an ace card. He used football players as an example. If you gotta use juice to go from high school to playing in college youll never make it to pro. If you gotta use it in college to turn pro you wont last long. But if you make it to pro then use it, well you will play for some years and earn the fame and money you wanted. This is just my opinion however, but im almost positive you havent exhausted all types of training, different diets and eating more cals (even dirty cals), and been training for 5-10 plus years.
What do you want to hear? I asked for help. That should show that I want to learn. Thats good for you and all your training and stuff. I really dont care about your past and future and weights. All I asked about was me. If you dont like what I want to do then you can leave. I train and train and train since 2008 and went from 165 to 185 and Im trying to naturally bulk. And I will try to max all weights before my second cycle to max out my natural ability.
 

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