Test base

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    Test base


    What would some of you PH gurus suggest for a test base in the PH realm? I'm thinking of a test base stacked with epi.

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    4AD
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    4AD
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    4AD
    Jinx
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    I'm a little quicker on the draw then you
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    And I know, that's what she said.
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    i was gonna say, is there an echo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    i was gonna say, is there an echo?
    and we actually wrote it the same exact way, capitals and all.
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    I used to stack 4ad with everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vidapreta View Post
    I used to stack 4ad with everything.

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    Ya the original was good shiit
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    what about d-plex? converts to dht. it's part of my next cycle
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    4AD
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    ......and dermacrine. double whammy.
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    When you guys say 4-ad does that mean the new stuff or the old stuff. I was looking at the new stuff, but wasn't sure how it compared to the old stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Sinister
    When you guys say 4-ad does that mean the new stuff or the old stuff. I was looking at the new stuff, but wasn't sure how it compared to the old stuff.
    I'm talking about the old stuff
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    why not just use test since you are already using a steroid? epi is a steroid. only commonly referred to as a ph because you can buy it otc.

    as for 4ad(new) and derm. well theres no guarantee youll get a good conversion to test
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambulldog View Post
    why not just use test since you are already using a steroid? epi is a steroid. only commonly referred to as a ph because you can buy it otc.
    The fact that one is otc and the other is not is the answer to that. If they were both illegal, then yes that would be pretty logical IMO.
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    How much test for a base on a PH to recomp (a generalization)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    The fact that one is otc and the other is not is the answer to that. If they were both illegal, then yes that would be pretty logical IMO.
    agreed, but i read it differently. i read it as he wanted to stay with "ph's" possibly not knowing that epi is an actual steroid. youd be surpised what people DONT know on these boards
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambulldog View Post
    agreed, but i read it differently. i read it as he wanted to stay with "ph's" possibly not knowing that epi is an actual steroid. youd be surpised what people DONT know on these boards
    Yeah I always wondered why everyone called epi a PH it is clearly a steroid.
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    whats the nomenclature of 4AD? Is 4AD the same as M14ADD (Methyl-1,4 androstenediol)??
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by StangBanger View Post
    whats the nomenclature of 4AD? Is 4AD the same as M14ADD (Methyl-1,4 androstenediol)??
    4-DHEA=1-androsten-3b-ol-17-one / 4-Dehydroepiandrosterone

    NO
    Methyl 1,4-AD=17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3b,17b-diol


    1,4-AD (Boldione)=1,4-androstadiene-3b,17b-dione
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    cool. thanks.
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    I was looking for something legal. I am not able to obtain illegal AAS. I dont have gym connections and I'm not willing to try the mail order route, at least not yet.

    As for the old 4-ad, it's no longer available, legally anywhere is it?
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    Idk I am still up in the air with OTC test products you have no idea how much conversion you are getting and could end up getting very little and shelling out $40 for nothing. You may not even need a test base for epi I am on week 3 right now and i feel great with no test base. Felt horrible lethargy at this time when I ran hdrol. Loving epi so far tho (running it at 40 mg)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Sinister View Post
    When you guys say 4-ad does that mean the new stuff or the old stuff. I was looking at the new stuff, but wasn't sure how it compared to the old stuff.
    im talking about the new stuff. 4-dhea
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    Quote Originally Posted by StangBanger View Post
    whats the nomenclature of 4AD? Is 4AD the same as M14ADD (Methyl-1,4 androstenediol)??
    well, if you mean the old 4ad, that was 4-androstenediol, m14add is methyl 1,4 androstenediol (so methyl bodiol)
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Idk I am still up in the air with OTC test products you have no idea how much conversion you are getting and could end up getting very little and shelling out $40 for nothing.
    this goes for all pro hormones. no one knows how much will convert, how much will bind with/interact with the androgen receptor, or how much will convert into inactive metabolites.

    this goes for all pro hormones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    this goes for all pro hormones. no one knows how much will convert, how much will bind with/interact with the androgen receptor, or how much will convert into inactive metabolites.

    this goes for all pro hormones.
    Yes, understood. However, the idea of a test base is to improve how you feel and possibly avoid certain side effects. I have had friends use OTC test base products with the same compound in the same conditions and have seen absolutely no improvement of sides such as lethargy. So I would rather try a compound first and see how I react to it and save my $40 before I buy a product that may do nothing at all to contribute to my cycle. The OP may feel different, though.
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    you can try to keep your own test levels up with hcgen or bulk daa, start 2 weeks before cycle and run through pct. Depending on the dose of epi and cycle length it may prevent shutdown. In turn less lethargy and libido issues and smoother pct. You can find daa in bulk for around 15 bucks for 200 grams. The idea is to piggyback your natty test levels, but the ph/ds cycle length and dose play a role in how long shut down takes
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Yeah I always wondered why everyone called epi a PH it is clearly a steroid.
    And a weak one at that.

    I say stack it with Phera. Yes I know it was banned however for whatever reason it is relatively easy to get your hands on along with x-tren - hassle-free I might add.

    Pheraplex has a good anabolic:androgenic ratio. It is nearly twice as androgenic as testosterone and has only little conversion to estrogen. Someone needs to modify this compound, molecularly fix the conversion issue altogether, and put it on the market again. It was and is a fantastic mass builder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid

    Yeah I always wondered why everyone called epi a PH it is clearly a steroid.
    I never understood the difference. What people call prohormones are usually designer steroids so what is an actual PH?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Yes, understood. However, the idea of a test base is to improve how you feel and possibly avoid certain side effects..
    oh, really? have you ever seen any data to support this "idea"

    and your friends just aren't dosing it properly. you think 40 bucks is gonna get you anything from a 2 step pro hormone? no.

    you'll need at the least 2 bottles for a 4 week cycle, and more if you want to run 6-8 weeks.

    you can use pp's andromass, it's good stuff, and one bottle is enough for a nice test base. but i'd rather have 2 of theirs as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machorox123 View Post
    I never understood the difference. What people call prohormones are usually designer steroids so what is an actual PH?
    testosterone is a pro hormone.

    4-dhea is a pro hormone

    max lmg is a pro hormone

    trenavar is a pro hormone.

    pro hormones will convert into another hormone via enzymes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    And a weak one at that.

    I say stack it with Phera. Yes I know it was banned however for whatever reason it is relatively easy to get your hands on along with x-tren - hassle-free I might add.

    Pheraplex has a good anabolic:androgenic ratio. It is nearly twice as androgenic as testosterone and has only little conversion to estrogen. Someone needs to modify this compound, molecularly fix the conversion issue altogether, and put it on the market again. It was and is a fantastic mass builder.
    correction, zero conversion to estrogen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    oh, really? have you ever seen any data to support this "idea"

    and your friends just aren't dosing it properly. you think 40 bucks is gonna get you anything from a 2 step pro hormone? no.

    you'll need at the least 2 bottles for a 4 week cycle, and more if you want to run 6-8 weeks.

    you can use pp's andromass, it's good stuff, and one bottle is enough for a nice test base. but i'd rather have 2 of theirs as well.
    My point is I do not think the cost of the test base is necessarily worth the benefits. Just my opinion. And if you have to use double or triple the dose of one of these products to make it effective then that is very misleading from the company that defines the effective dose for their product. I don't think it is worth $40 and I especially do not think it is worth 2 or 3 times that amount. At that point it is more expensive than just buying test.
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    Great thread ! In about to be using a bottle of forerunner labs alpha mass at recommended dosage on bottle for 4 weeks and a bottle of 4ad rde the new one at half dose for 4 weeks then at normal for 2 weeks while on epi/tren for 4 weeks. So I'll see how this goes first hand
    drofwarc
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    oh, really? have you ever seen any data to support this "idea"

    and your friends just aren't dosing it properly. you think 40 bucks is gonna get you anything from a 2 step pro hormone? no.

    you'll need at the least 2 bottles for a 4 week cycle, and more if you want to run 6-8 weeks.

    you can use pp's andromass, it's good stuff, and one bottle is enough for a nice test base. but i'd rather have 2 of theirs as well.
    I hope so.....I invested in 2 AMv2 and 1 AMv3 so I can run 11-12 weeks at 6 a day....and I want to run deca at 400mg per week for 9 weeks. would rather do 2 9-weekers at 400mg per week than 2 12-weekers at 300mg per week. and it gives me the 2-3 week overshoot of the AM everybody was suggesting. Only into the AM's for ~300 and change....not bad for 3 bottles/12 weeks worth at full dose. just hope it works as advertised...I guess use some dermacrine as well since its being produced by BPS now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    My point is I do not think the cost of the test base is necessarily worth the benefits. Just my opinion. And if you have to use double or triple the dose of one of these products to make it effective then that is very misleading from the company that defines the effective dose for their product. I don't think it is worth $40 and I especially do not think it is worth 2 or 3 times that amount. At that point it is more expensive than just buying test.
    At the end of the day, Testosterone by itself is the best option. In fact, I'm so impressed with test-e that I think I'll just always use it stand alone or with mast-e for estro control. But I thought the OP said legality was his issue, thus the need for an oral test base.. I'm for Phera or Andro series
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