Fura/SD Stack adjustment, ideas?

[tschmitt82]

So my cupboard is filled with these two compounds ($500 impulse one night lol) that are just screaming at me to run them. 5'11'', 185, probably ~15% bf, and I'd basically like to drop under 10%bf between now and June and gain as much muscle as possible while doing it.

I was initially thinking of running Fura 200/200/200/250/250/250 and SD at 0/0/20/20/20/20, but the more and more I read up on Fura, the more I get the impression that I can run it longer than that.

Fura: 200/250/300/300/300/300/350/350
SD: 0/0/0/0/20/20/20/20

This includes 2 weeks of preloading cycle support and liv.52 along with a nolva based PCT. What do you guys think?

My diet is emulate when it needs to be. I was thinking of running a 500cal deficit through the first three weeks, recomp the next 2, and 500 surplus while the SD is in full effect.

Would really appreciate some of you high rep guys sharing your thoughts here so I can pull the trigger on this cycle. Thanks in advance.

 

[TomGreen]

wouldnt it be better to start taking sd and fura at the same time and then finishing only on 1 compound (fura).

 

[tschmitt82]

Well, that idea did come to my mind. I guess I was thinking that 4 weeks of SD was going to shut my natural test down hard and wanted to jump on the PCT asap afterwards. I'm open to advice from anyone who has experience with this, though.

 

[ManBeast]

fura will shut you down just as hard. its much easier to start pct on one compound than 2 imho.

 

[Tansui]

4 weeks of SD is pretty unconventional, I would maybe do
20/20/20/0/0/0/0/0
0/250/250/300/300/300/300/300

I know you want to cut than bulk lean but that's a little counter intuitive, and very hard to do on orals and w/o hcg. I would bulk those 3 SD weeks then spend the next solidifing and shredding fat with cardio.

 

[tschmitt82]

First off, I appreciate the feedback, guys.

Part of my issue here is that I've spend the last 70 days or so on a standard EC cut and it's slowing down significantly. Like I said in my OP, I'm at around 15% and I'd like to drop below 10% where I can really see my abs.

I'm just afraid that if I were to run the SD first, my bf% would bounce back and the last two months would have been a waste. Also, I wouldn't be completely opposed to dropping the SD from the cycle, it's just that I've been dying to run it and if at all possible, I'd rather not have to wait another 12 weeks after this next 12 (cycle+pct).

What if it was something like this?

Fura: 250/250/300/300/300/350/350
SD: 0/0/0/20/20/20/0/0

Also, I'll run T-force and DAA the last two weeks of the cycle and first two of the PCT.

 

[Tansui]

A clean diet(watch carbs closley) and 1 hard cardio day per week should keep bf in check. You gotta do the work to make it work.

 

[tschmitt82]

Oh yeah, I have no issue putting in the work. I'm running 5 resistance and 4 cardio (2 doubles) per week atm and 2000-2200cals/day. My body just doesn't like dropping below 13-15% bf and bounces back pretty quick if I'm not careful.

As for the carbs, I'm currently running 40/40/20 though on my diet and figured that I'd keep that the whole way through. When you say drop the carbs, should I be below 2700*40% = 1080cal/day from carbs?

 

[Tansui]

Sounds like you might be much more carb sensitive than I am. Maybe try 50/30/20*80% cals on non cardio days, and 45/35/20*100% cals on cardio days. Make adjustments in macros to manage lethargy and potential bloat on SD. When selecting carbs try long release foods like whole grain wheat pastas and sweet potatoes. I would run a recomp or a strict cut based on what you've said. AH and Fura with a 4 week epi kick start.

 

[tschmitt82]

AH = AndroHard? Would I run that the whole time with the Fura, or bridge into it after the epi? Ex:

Fura: 0/250/250/300/300/300/350/350
Epi: 30/30/40/40/0/0/0/0
AH: ?

 

[Tansui]

Use androhard like a traditional test base
AH 2/3/4/4/4/4/3/2
Epi as a kick
30/30/40/40/0/0/0/0
and Fura to end with fat burning momentum
0/0/0/250/300/300/350/350

This is a long cycle so shut down may be significant. It's mostly non-methyl so the liver should do better than on an SD bridge. Make sure you have your SERM based PCT on hand before you start.

 

[ManBeast]

SD won't make your bodyfat bounce back... that's all in your diet.

 

[tschmitt82]

So if my diet is perfect and over the course of this 8 wk cycle I drop down to 8% bf, would the epi/ah/fura stack or the sd/fura stack put on the most muscle without sacrificing cals to keep the fat off... if that makes sense.

 

[tschmitt82]

ManBeast, I just read this little gem:

On a recomp, I tend to suggest about 200-250 calories over maintenence on a build (lifting) day, and 300-500 under maintenance on a burn (cardio/off) day. If you are constantly in a caloric surplus it is much harder to burn fat.

and think I'll run that the whole cycle. That just makes a whole lot of sense. How would you split your routine up? When I'm cutting I like to run something like this:

Legs (Heavy)
Back (H)
Chest (H)
HIIT
Back (L)
Chest (L)
Rest/Light cardio

And often will run in the morning. Recomping on PH/PS', would it be better to drop that to 4 days resistance and 3 days of cardio with the diet outline like you said?



or something like that?

 

[ManBeast]

i like more cardio on a recomp, but I add muscle easier than burn fat.
monday - back/bis/15-20 HIIT cardio
tuesday - LIS cardio 30-45 minutes
wed - chest/tris/obliques/15-20 HIIT cardio
thursday - LIS cardio 30-45 minutes
friady - legs/abs/side delts
saturday - shoulders/arms/rotators/15-20 HIIT cardio.

but if you are more of a fat shedder than muscle builder, you should adjust.

 

[Tansui]

I wouldn't do back and chest in consecutive days because your compound moves (pull downs, bent over rows, military's) will involve both muscle sets i'll either do all upper body in 1 day then all lower body on the next with cardio on the 3rd day when im bulking. On a recomp (what im doing now) I'll break up my back and chest with legs or cardio like whats below.

Back and triceps
Legs
Chest shoulders and biceps ,
cardio

 

[tschmitt82]

Awesome. You two have really been a ton of help. I think I've settled on this:

Day 1: PM; Quads/Hams/Calves (2900cal)
Day 2: AM; LISS 45min, PM; Chest/Bis/Abs (2900)
Day 3: PM; HIIT 60min (2200)
Day 4: PM; Back/Tris/Calves (2900)
Day 5: AM; LISS 45min, PM; Shoulders/Abs (2900)
Day 6: PM; HIIT 60min, (2200)
Repeat

And I'm gonna stick with the SD since I already have a nice stock of it.

Fura: 200/250/300/300/350/350/350/350
SD: 20/20/20/0/0/0/0/0

PCT: Last two weeks of the cycle I'll start T-Force and DAA and a Nolva based PCT. Is this enough? Should I have any Clomid or HCG on hand?

Oh, one last question, do you have guys have any idea what the shelf life of the liquid Nolva from Chem1 is? I still have an opened bottle that I think is like 5 months old and was planning on using that.

 

[ManBeast]

don't start pct until the day after your last fura dose. nolva should be fine.

 

[tschmitt82]

Hmm, I wasn't very clear on my PCT statement. I figured I'd start the t-force and daa the last two weeks, then after the last dose of fura i'll start the nolva, suppress-c, etc...

 

[ManBeast]

eh, the daa *might* do something then, but the t-force will probably be mostly wasted honestly.