[dickwootton]

hey odessa are you from the permian basin area?
****

[Odessa14]

Originally Posted by dickwootton

hey odessa are you from the permian basin area?
Dick

No. Sorry Bro

[Odessa14]

Bioman,
What dose would you use for the celery seed? I am thinking 1500mgs/day, too low?

[LunaHotel]

Thanks Neuromancer, good post. I'm already on MSM, Glucosamine and devil's claw root (natural anti-inflammatory). After reading this thread, I'm going to add Chondroitin Sulfate and celery seed extract.

Now, what I would really like, is a steroid designed for cartilage regeneration, or one that has a reputation for making joints better. I hear hGH can do that, is it true?


Also, here's something else I've found, although it's more theory :

Regulation of anabolic and catabolic gene expression in normal and osteoarthritic adult human articular chondrocytes by osteogenic protein-1.

Fan Z, Chubinskaya S, Rueger DC, Bau B, Haag J, Aigner T.

Department of Pathology, University of Erlangen-Nurnberg, Krankenhausstr. 8-10, D-91054 Erlangen, Germany.

OBJECTIVE: Osteoarthritis is characterized by dramatic changes in chondrocyte metabolism including the overexpression of catabolic enzymes, but also a lack of anabolic activity. In this respect, osteogenic protein 1 (OP-1) appears to be one of the most potent anabolic factors of chondrocytes. In this study, we were interested in: (1) whether recombinant human OP-1 exerts its anabolic effects also on osteoarthritic chondrocytes, (2) whether OP-1 modulates the expression of catabolic genes, and (3) whether the BMP effects are related to the expression levels of its intracellular mediators (R- and I-Smads). METHODS: Chondrocytes were isolated from cartilage of either normal (n = 5) or osteoarthritic (n = 8) human knee joints and cultured in short-term high-density monolayer cultures with and without recombinant OP-1. RNA was isolated and analyzed for mRNA expression levels of anabolic (aggrecan, collagen type II), catabolic (MMP-1, -3, -13, ADAMTS-4), and intracellular signaling mediators (Smad 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8) by quantitative online PCR. RESULTS: After OP-1 stimulation, the anabolic genes were significantly up-regulated in osteoarthritic chondrocytes in comparison to normal chondrocytes. Neither in normal nor osteoarthritic chondrocytes were significant changes observed for the matrix degrading enzymes. Smads were also expressed in both normal and osteoarthritic cells at roughly the same level with and without stimulation with OP-1. CONCLUSION: Osteoarthritic chondrocytes are not hypo-responsive to anabolic stimulation by OP-1. Thus, human recombinant OP-1 could be a suitable anabolic activator of osteoarthritic chondrocytes. This might be of particular interest as chondrocytes themselves showed very low levels of OP-1 expression.

PMID: 15005012 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Syr]

Originally Posted by Odessa14

Bioman.....I missed this post and I am sorry that I did. Thanks for the info....its in my next cycle. What dose do you think is a good moderate-to-high dose of MOHN? I was thinking 30-40mgs/day. I am prob going to go the easy route and use Des Tabs.....I also wanted to know what is best to stack it with......man I should have opened a new thread......
Thanks Again
O14

Yes, 32-40mg / day splitted in 3-4 doses.
Still on the safe side a great stack will be 1,4 andro diol @900mg. Good for bulking as both raises appetite

[Neuromancer]

Originally Posted by LunaHotel

Thanks Neuromancer, good post. I'm already on MSM, Glucosamine and devil's claw root (natural anti-inflammatory). After reading this thread, I'm going to add Chondroitin Sulfate and celery seed extract.

Now, what I would really like, is a steroid designed for cartilage regeneration, or one that has a reputation for making joints better. I hear hGH can do that, is it true?

Well deca and eq can be good for the joints. Deca stimulates collagen synthesis, so it would help. Really if you are looking for the holy grail of joint repair...adequan is the way to go...(so I hear anyway).

I just looked back in this thread and everything I posted has already been said...

[Manu20]

Originally Posted by bioman

Use celery seed extract and kill 2 birds with one stone..maybe 3.

CS is great for lowering BP while on and it is also used to alleviate arthritis pain. It's reported to have mild cholesterol lowering effects as well.

Since all of these are issues while on M1t it's now part of my supp regimen for those cycles.

All in all you'll enjoy a m4OHn cycle more than m1T..especially for joints, mood, energy. The gains aren't as "drastic" but they are real for most. It also appears to be safer by far.

Do you know any online places selling celery seed extract....I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[bioman]

Someone sent me a link to seacoastvitamins.com..but I haven't tried them yet. Maybe doctorstrust.com has it?

Like I said I just bought some bulk seed, ground it up and capped it(cost me all of $0.87). Seems to work pretty well but I'd like to try a stonger, standardized CS extract with a higher percentage of 3nB.

[Odessa14]

Originally Posted by bioman

Someone sent me a link to seacoastvitamins.com..but I haven't tried them yet. Maybe doctorstrust.com has it?

Like I said I just bought some bulk seed, ground it up and capped it(cost me all of $0.87). Seems to work pretty well but I'd like to try a stonger, standardized CS extract with a higher percentage of 3nB.

Thats what I am also looking to get....I want a powerful amount during the cycle, I havent been able to find much online either so I think I will resort to shopping around some local or chain vitamin or herbal shops.

[Syr]

Originally Posted by Odessa14

Thats what I am also looking to get....I want a powerful amount during the cycle, I havent been able to find much online either so I think I will resort to shopping around some local or chain vitamin or herbal shops.

vitacost.com has 3 CS products. The liquid extract seems good.

[LunaHotel]

Originally Posted by bioman

Someone sent me a link to seacoastvitamins.com..but I haven't tried them yet. Maybe doctorstrust.com has it?

Like I said I just bought some bulk seed, ground it up and capped it(cost me all of $0.87). Seems to work pretty well but I'd like to try a stonger, standardized CS extract with a higher percentage of 3nB.

Bulk seed what? Celery? Does that contain Chondroitin??

Anyways how do you grind it? In a coffee grinder? How does the coffee taste?

[EDIT : Argh, I get it... CS as in Celery Seed and not Chondroitin Sulfate... Been mixing them up in these posts here... ]