ThisOriginally Posted by soontobbeast
Trenbolones active metabolite (17beta-trenbolone) has a binding affinity to the progesterone receptor that is actually greater than progesterone itself.
Nolavadex makes potentiates/ makes the progesterone receptors sensitive
= no 19nors (trenbolone/Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - /etc) w/nolavadex
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 May;95(1-5):83-9.
Aromatase inhibitors: cellular and molecular effects.
Miller WR, Anderson TJ, White S, Larionov A, Murray J, Evans D, Krause A, Dixon JM.
Breast Unit, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.
Marked cellular and molecular changes may occur in breast cancers following treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer patients with aromatase inhibitors. Neoadjuvant protocols, in which treatment is given with the primary tumour still within the breast, are particularly illuminating. In Edinburgh, we have shown that 3 months treatment with either anastrozole, exemestane or letrozole produces pathological responses in the majority of oestrogen receptor (ER)-rich tumours (39/59) as manifested by reduced cellularity/increased fibrosis. Changes in histological grading may also take place, most notably a reduction in mitotic figures. This probably reflects an influence on proliferation as most tumours (82%) show a marked decrease in the proliferation marker, Ki67. These effects are generally more dramatic than seen with tamoxifen given in the same setting. Differences between aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen are also apparent in changes in steroid hormone expression. Thus, immuno-staining for progesterone receptor (PgR) is reduced in almost all cases by aromatase inhibitors, becoming undetectable in many. This contrasts with effects of tamoxifen in which the most common change on PgR is to increase expression. Changes in proliferation occur rapidly following the onset of exposure to aromatase inhibitors. Thus, neoadjuvant studies with letrozole in which tumour was sampled before and after 14 days and 3 months treatment show that decreased expression of Ki67 occur at 14 days and, in many cases, the effect is greater at 14 days than 3 months. These early changes precede evidence of clinical response but do not predict for it. However, this study design has allowed RNA analysis of sequential biopsies taken during the neoadjuvant therapy. Based on clustering techniques, it has been possible to subdivide tumours into groups showing distinct patterns of molecular changes. These changes in tumour gene expression may allow definition of tumour cohorts with differing sensitivity to aromatase inhibitors and permit early recognition of response and resistance....
when you are on PCT the 19 nors are still active in your body as remember that half lives mean half, then half, then half, so you will still have some receptor upregulation long after PCT is over
"there's 2 phases, on cycle vs PCT.
when on a cycle which includes nandrolones, use of nolva is contraindicated for gyno symtoms because nolva (also clomid) upregulate progesterone receptors. iow, you increase the liklihood of progesterone sides and sequalae (gyno and hyperprolactinemia)
when in PCT, as long as most of the active nandrolones have cleared your system (2-3 weeks), use of SERMs nolva/clomid is fine. the p-receptor upregulation is transient and wont affect a subsequent cycle. "
Dorland's Medical Dictionary for Health Consumers. © 2007 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved
outta one of my books....
I think that what it comes down to is what works for your body... One study says one thing and one says another.... I have searched for the ast 2 days and when i try to find more info, the next thread says use it...
Good luck... Tamoxifen and prolactin dont mix at all....
ThisOriginally Posted by soontobbeast
He really is what he says, I know him personally and we train together. I don't see why so many ppl r hating on him, its totally uncalled for.Originally Posted by soontobbeast
so should i return my nolva and get something else? hahah
No u don't have to.Originally Posted by JoeySon
Make sure it's all **** products bro.Originally Posted by JoeySon
Im sure he's a good enough dude but I know English must've been part of the gen ed requirements of any college degree.
Lot of info that doesn't match up. He posts a pct article that takes a translator to read basically just trying to get people to buy **** products and then boasts about his pct that he used after his last cycle for quick recovery which did indeed have a serm.
And then he's a molecular biologist...then an RN...and probably an underwater basket weaver next.
To many inconsistencies. From what I could understand. Which wasn't much.
Lots of unwarranted hostility too when people just point out flaws in his arguments. And like a two year old he makes up fictional BS about someones character to try to tear someone down instead of addressing the inconsistencies. Like hell more than likely do after reading this post.
Whatever though, just my .02
i was half joking, im not too concerned with it as I am running a pmag cycle and feel the nolva will be fine..
most of that other stuff is far over my head and i dont think ill ever venture down that road of the more harsher stuff so i dont need to concern myself with the nitty gritty details (not to mention his ridiculous stack lol)
im sure hes not stupid but like somebody said earlier this stuff will always be debated until scientists conduct a study on thousands of juicers and record all the info..from what i read pretty much all the SERM debate is based around breast cancer...
It is mostly all based around breast cancer.Originally Posted by JoeySon
Take his opinion or not.... No need to argue over it.
The strongest thing clomid has going for it is that actual endocrinologists use it in re-start protocols in their practices. However there are also studies showing the other SERMs to raise LH and FSH as well.
The plain truth of the matter is that there just hasn't been enough proper science performed in studying these compounds for our uses in a controlled environment.
-Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
-Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
*I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
Thank you! His main concern and we talk about this all the time is that nolva doesn't agree with 19nors and there r better SERMs out there, that r less harsh. I f*ck with clomid all day, I believe its superior IMO, and I'll try torem too. Raloxifene has me intrigued too.Originally Posted by thyrod
This is a discussion board. Discuss the information you present in a skillful and respectful manner. Respect will be given back.
Know what's weird? Day by day, nothing seems to change. But pretty soon, everything's different. -Bill Watterson
I agree. He's just fed up with bad information that's all.Originally Posted by AForney
Subbed for future arguments lol.
So here's a question for the party: would it be best to use an AI with nolva if nolva is used solo after a cycle? I am gyno sensitive so I am a fan of nolva so far no problems with it...though I have only done orals.
I don't care whether you're a janitor or a brain surgeon, I still wanna see legitimate medical studies that contraindicate nolva when using deca. Nobody can drop information that isn't proven without getting questioned. Just post up some links to medical studies that back up your pct claims and what your profession or educational background is will be a moot point.
Edit: links to studies, not copy and pasted.