Had a heart attack saturday :-(

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn
    There is a new school of thought out there that extremely low cholesterol may be counter productive to cardiac health. Yours is insanely low. There are new standards that suggest that 180-200 is optimum (of course depending upon the ratio) and that less than 160 may undesireable. Fact is they change and no one is certain.

    Here is an interesting article regarding cholesterol as an indicator of heart attack risk:
    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/...%20cholesterol

    Also consider the following:

    Testosterone Synthesis Pathway

    Testosterone, like all steroid hormones, is produced from the precursor molecule cholesterol, a fatty substance derived from the foods you eat, such as red meat, cheese and eggs. In the synthesis of testosterone, cholesterol is turned into testosterone via a complex biosynthetic pathway that includes several intermediate molecules. These intermediates also can be used in your body to perform other functions. For example, the steroid synthesis pathway that produces testosterone also can produce female sex hormones, the stress hormone cortisol and the fluid regulation hormone aldosterone, if the correct enzymes are present.

    What I also find very interesting, or maybe disturbing, is that your cardiologist stated that by simply drinking more grape juice it will bring your HDL up. Seriously? There is an entire supplement and pharmacuetical industry that has been working on developing substances that elevate HDL and all along all we needed to do was drink some more grape juice?
    I thought the grape juice thing was a wildly simple fix to that too but coming from a "reputable" cardiologist I thought id look into it. I think this experience just goes to show how much a slippery slope this lifestyle cam become once other health issues come into play. Get stuck between those with medical background and little or no AAS knowledge and those with experience but no medical background.

    So could my diet is too clean of cholesterol and fatty foods?

    Every "study" or "professional opinion" and so on always has a dozen others that contradict it. After awhile you get so wrapped up in the bullsht that it's hard to put faith or belief in any of it. It's crazy , the other morning driving to work they had people on the radio saying it was good for people to eat shtty food I'm the morning so chow that pizza and Chinese food and fried chicken in the AM and you'll be fine. Wtf?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313

    Every "study" or "professional opinion" and so on always has a dozen others that contradict it. After awhile you get so wrapped up in the bullsht that it's hard to put faith or belief in any of it. It's crazy , the other morning driving to work they had people on the radio saying it was good for people to eat shtty food I'm the morning so chow that pizza and Chinese food and fried chicken in the AM and you'll be fine. Wtf?!
    Haha, yes, I know what you mean... It doesnt mean you shouldnt consider the advice of an "expert" in whatever field, but its almost impossible to be sure about anything. And yes, its like we've come full circle in so many topics. Things that were once good are now bad, and vice versa. People dont care about the contradiction of new news with old news, just as long as theyre continually spoonfed with the latest theory. The result on me is a numbing skepticism of everything. Take things with a grain of salt, and exercise your judgement after youve gathered as much info as you can. I think thats the best any of us can do.
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    Amen to that bro! *^
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    Sorry to hear that man, the great news is that it was mild. My uncle had heart attack symptoms and I took him to the ER. They said it was an anxiety attack even though he did not feel anxious. It could have triggered a heart attack.

    You could drop your test to TRT dose if you don't want to PCT at the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fadi
    Sorry to hear that man, the great news is that it was mild. My uncle had heart attack symptoms and I took him to the ER. They said it was an anxiety attack even though he did not feel anxious. It could have triggered a heart attack.

    You could drop your test to TRT dose if you don't want to PCT at the time.
    Yeah I've decided to just taper it down then pct on schedule
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    There is a new school of thought out there that extremely low cholesterol may be counter productive to cardiac health. Yours is insanely low. There are new standards that suggest that 180-200 is optimum (of course depending upon the ratio) and that less than 160 may undesireable. Fact is they change and no one is certain.

    Here is an interesting article regarding cholesterol as an indicator of heart attack risk:
    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/...ow cholesterol

    Also consider the following:

    Testosterone Synthesis Pathway

    Testosterone, like all steroid hormones, is produced from the precursor molecule cholesterol, a fatty substance derived from the foods you eat, such as red meat, cheese and eggs. In the synthesis of testosterone, cholesterol is turned into testosterone via a complex biosynthetic pathway that includes several intermediate molecules. These intermediates also can be used in your body to perform other functions. For example, the steroid synthesis pathway that produces testosterone also can produce female sex hormones, the stress hormone cortisol and the fluid regulation hormone aldosterone, if the correct enzymes are present.

    What I also find very interesting, or maybe disturbing, is that your cardiologist stated that by simply drinking more grape juice it will bring your HDL up. Seriously? There is an entire supplement and pharmacuetical industry that has been working on developing substances that elevate HDL and all along all we needed to do was drink some more grape juice?
    David,

    The new school believes that LDL size is what matters:
    Big fluffy LDL = Good
    Small LDL = Bad and does damage
    Ultra low LDL is not a good thing in this theory, as you need some to keep hormone levels up to snuff as you said.
    HDL is better to have big size too, but overall higher is better and 25 is very low.

    You need special blood work to show size of LDL and HDL and top cardio docs will get these tests.

    This theory is being followed by some of the top cardio docs, but not totally accepted yet.

    There is a huge difference between the typical cardio docs and the ones that stay up with the state of the art and really care about their patients. The good ones can find answers to causes that the typical cardio docs don't even look into.

    Read the article you posted, and this is the theory I'm talking about -- considered very important besides the size of LDL and HDL is Triglycerides and LP(a) as major markers for problems as stated at the end of the article. There are many cardio docs who still disagree with this, but I think it's going to supplant the old testing.
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    sorry to hear mike. praying for health and recovery. gl and keep sane, I know and understand those near death experiences can make you really think sometimes to much.
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    this is some scary stuff at such a young age. at least you know that it wasn't steroid related,meaning that you didn't to it to yourself.
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    Sorry to hear about that man...
    Shows no1 is safe.

    What type of work r u doing now?
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    Just a thought, you could get a second opinion from someone with aas experience AND medical background by seeing a doctor at a trt/hrt office...that's what I would do. Glad to gear you're ok though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuberman View Post
    David,

    The new school believes that LDL size is what matters:
    Big fluffy LDL = Good
    Small LDL = Bad and does damage
    Ultra low LDL is not a good thing in this theory, as you need some to keep hormone levels up to snuff as you said.
    HDL is better to have big size too, but overall higher is better and 25 is very low.

    You need special blood work to show size of LDL and HDL and top cardio docs will get these tests.
    His HDL of 25 is low because his LDL is low. When your LDL is really low, your body just doesn't need as much HDL as it would otherwise, so your liver won't produce a lot of HDL. It will be very hard for him to raise his HDL significantly while keeping his LDL low; they tend to move in lockstep.

    The cholesterol test you're talking about is called the VAP test, and you don't need a "top cardio doc" to order it. Any doc can order it if he thinks it's necessary. You can even order it from privatemdlabs or anylabtestnow and pay out of pocket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifthardheavy

    His HDL of 25 is low because his LDL is low. When your LDL is really low, your body just doesn't need as much HDL as it would otherwise, so your liver won't produce a lot of HDL. It will be very hard for him to raise his HDL significantly while keeping his LDL low; they tend to move in lockstep.

    The cholesterol test you're talking about is called the VAP test, and you don't need a "top cardio doc" to order it. Any doc can order it if he thinks it's necessary. You can even order it from privatemdlabs or anylabtestnow and pay out of pocket.
    So is it ideal to have higher of both? Could a diet be too clean resulting in numbers that low you think? I get a crap load of omega 3s, olive oil with everything , avacados daily (10 for $10 at Kroger btw!). Not suprised my LDL is that low though considering I only eat red meat once a week if that, no fried foods ever except the occasional BW3 run maybe once every couple months. Almost never eat out at resteraunts and can't stand greasy salty food cus it makes me feel like crap always has. Thinking maybe I should make the occasional white castle run now! Only greasy burgers I love and they have sweet potato fries now! ;-)
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    damn bro im sorry that happened to you,\i wish you the best of luck in recovering bro
    OEF '11-'12

    Don't be upset with the results you didn't get from the work you didn't put in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masciaman
    damn bro im sorry that happened to you,\i wish you the best of luck in recovering bro
    Thanx bro appreciate it, I'm already taking the steps I need to overcome this bump in the road. Should be back in full force before I know it ;-)
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    Take care yourself bro n i hope the drugs ur shooting up are legit; i bartend during the summer and i love it! A whole lot of fun, but not healthy for me; i actually teach during the year so that helps keep me straight n fit. Good luck w all this!
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    So today was first day back in the gym and I'm here to say fuk a heart attack! Was a bit uneasy goin to the gym but felt good. Started with alil 15 minute elipitical warmup to get my heart rate up and see how I felt. All good there so I decided to do chest. Went alil lighter on the weights but I got through it, just took longer (2-3 minutes) breaks between sets. And entire workout went over 2 hours opposed to 1- 1 1/2 .Started with bench the went to DBs for some light sets and then machines.

    Bench suprised me considering what I just been through but I got this down
    Flat
    135 warmup x 15
    185x12
    225x10
    275x8
    245x8
    225x10

    Incline
    185x12
    205x10
    225x8
    185x8

    Decline
    185x12
    225x10
    225x8
    185x8 and a drop set of 135x8

    I was expecting much worse numbers. Was a good feeling
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    I had a heart attack in 2010. Right artery 99% blocked=new stint= all better now. Basically genetic, not a bad diet or extended AAS use. My cholesterol profile was very bad, however, so the doc put me on a statin. After reading all the negative press on statins, and all the positive press on Niacin therapy, I said goodbye to the statin, and only take 2,000mg a day of Niacin. My docotor isnt happy, but nobody is getting a kickback from me buying Niacin at the grocery store. In a few months, I will get a HDL/LDL test to see where I stand.Worst part of the post heart attack? PLAVIX!!! You can bleed out if you cut yourself shaving....................... ...........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presa
    I had a heart attack in 2010. Right artery 99% blocked=new stint= all better now. Basically genetic, not a bad diet or extended AAS use. My cholesterol profile was very bad, however, so the doc put me on a statin. After reading all the negative press on statins, and all the positive press on Niacin therapy, I said goodbye to the statin, and only take 2,000mg a day of Niacin. My docotor isnt happy, but nobody is getting a kickback from me buying Niacin at the grocery store. In a few months, I will get a HDL/LDL test to see where I stand.Worst part of the post heart attack? PLAVIX!!! You can bleed out if you cut yourself shaving....................... ...........
    Yeah that's what the doc gave me to take . Pravastatin. Said it was cholesterol med. when I asked why it was necessary cus my cholesterol was crazy low he told me to use as a blood thinner. I've been taking it at night for a week now. I'm gonna look up the bad sides bit what have you found on it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313

    Yeah that's what the doc gave me to take . Pravastatin. Said it was cholesterol med. when I asked why it was necessary cus my cholesterol was crazy low he told me to use as a blood thinner. I've been taking it at night for a week now. I'm gonna look up the bad sides bit what have you found on it?
    Pravastatin as a blood thinner? I dont think so, unless they are being weird an thinking of decreased platelet production secondary to liver suppression, but that is inappropriate, why not baby aspirin daily or plavix? Sounds fishy man.
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    This thread is freaking me out! I swear i just took some aspirin cuz I've been feeling pains on my right side!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sae2110

    Pravastatin as a blood thinner? I dont think so, unless they are being weird an thinking of decreased platelet production secondary to liver suppression, but that is inappropriate, why not baby aspirin daily or plavix? Sounds fishy man.
    My wife just told me I misunderstood what the doc said. Not as a blood thinner it's to help the blood pump through my heart faster. They said that although my cholesterol was lower then anyone theyve ever seen my blood was moving through my body as someones with high cholesterol would. He also prescribed baby asparin to take once a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pigpen75
    This thread is freaking me out! I swear i just took some aspirin cuz I've been feeling pains on my right side!
    Oh chill out., it wouldn't be your right side either. Your imagination must be on your right side lol. Your heart is in the center/left but you'd feel pain through your left side or up through your kneck as well as upper abdomin like I did along with a weighted burning feeling I the center of your chest like the worst heartburn you've ever had with a elbow pinning in you down mid chest.
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    Holy sh** mate, glad to hear we didnt lose another BBer at such a young age.


    Hope your recoverin ok!


    i'd reevaluate every last choice including spending time with those you need to spend time with.
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    Common bro why would u take d Bol just take plain steroids if ur gonna do it since first place
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313

    My wife just told me I misunderstood what the doc said. Not as a blood thinner it's to help the blood pump through my heart faster. They said that although my cholesterol was lower then anyone theyve ever seen my blood was moving through my body as someones with high cholesterol would. He also prescribed baby asparin to take once a day.
    Good to hear, that makes more sense, though I have heard that statins can give you bad muscle aches (which indicate a need to stop taking them) I dont know if this is exacerbated by heavy lifting though, something to mention to the docs
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    Good to hear you are okay. I do think much of what happens to us is a cause of mental anguish and outside stresses. What's funny is I bartender for 7 years and I feel your pain!!!! I leave the job I have now every day like why the **** am
    I here--I don't need This Incan make this in 2 solid nights at THe bar. Gross over 50k in straight cash untaxed if you can. I'm looking for a new job or I'm afraid by 27 I'll have a heart attack! Be safe and god bless
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb2005
    Good to hear you are okay. I do think much of what happens to us is a cause of mental anguish and outside stresses. What's funny is I bartender for 7 years and I feel your pain!!!! I leave the job I have now every day like why the **** am
    I here--I don't need This Incan make this in 2 solid nights at THe bar. Gross over 50k in straight cash untaxed if you can. I'm looking for a new job or I'm afraid by 27 I'll have a heart attack! Be safe and god bless
    We're on the same page bro.
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    Bar tended last night --first night back In a while-made more than half what I get in a week at my other job! FmL lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb2005
    Bar tended last night --first night back In a while-made more than half what I get in a week at my other job! FmL lol
    Yeah I'm gonna be looking staring this week. Don't wanna return to my miserable job after my recovery.
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