Heart problems from steroids or?

Profion

Member
hey guys
i have had some panic attacks that i might think have been from anxiety, well i felt like i was faiting and was rushed into the hospital and after some minuts it got away ive got these trips like 6times over 7years, but that was first time i ended up in the hospital!

i got apointed for a heartscan and did that like a month ago, they said that one of the hearts muscles had grown! and i asked if it was dangerous and they dident really answer, they said it could be. They must not have been experct or secure about the condiiton!

well i told them that i had used steroids, so question is.. is it from steroids or from just regular weighttraining but intense over 4-5years!
200kg dead, 170squats ect.

anybody know any body was same condition or ? thanks

im apointed to get a monitor on for 10days that record my heart! but thats in 20days from now
 
Hard to say. Left ventricular hypertrophy can be caused from steroids, weight-training, extreme/competitive exercise and other issues/diseases.


Botton line, get checked out and listen to your DR.
 
could be genetic, could be from working out, could be from stims, could be from steroids, could be a combination of any or all? Nobody can really tell you what caused it, but once you know what it is then it can be monitored and treated. there are many reasons the heart can enlarge. They won't tell you much and will keep you in the dark because that is what doctors do. So its not the entire heart that is enlarged? just part of it?
 
Could be sh*tty placement of the probes when they did the reading, how exact/anal were they in locating them correctly?

ManBeast
 
yeah you need a proper echocardiogram so they can see if its really what it seems, or if its part of the heart enlarged or the entire thing etc...when they do an echo they can look at it and diagnose it. not sure if you got an echo or just an EKG or what....
 
Theres a wide array of cardiac studies from EKG, to echocardiograms (transthoracic,transesophageal), stress tests, stress echos, thalium stress tests, MUGA scans, coronary angiograms...

My guess is that when you say heartscan youre talking about an transthoracic Echo, as the prior responder describes. Even with all the tests in the world it may not be possible to say for sure what exactly caused whatever condition you have. Its possible that genetics, weightlifting and steroids all contributed equally.

You should at least get a copy of whatever report for the test you got. If its an echo, the report should definitely make comment of things that could cause one to pass out, should the abnormality be great enough. An echo will see wall motion abnormalities (hypokinesis, akinesis) suggestive of coronary artery disease or severe arrhythmia. It can see valvular abnormalities, which could hamper the cardiac output leading to decreased perfusion to the brain during times of stress. If there are any vegetations (septic or aseptic) growing in a chamber or on a valve, the echo may spot that. If your heart is significantly enlarged, it can evaluate whether the enlargement is symmetric or confined to the left heart or right heart. Or, it could be isolated/assymetric enlargement of the interventricular septum, which would be concerning. Fianlly, most echos give an estimation of the left heart's EF (or ejection fraction), which is a good general estimation of heart health. The normal EF is around 60% i believe.

Does anyone in your immediate family have a history of heart problems? Arrhythmias, MYocardial infarction (especially at young age). How is your health otherwise, do you have risk factors for coronary artery disease? Hypertension, hypercholesterolemia...

An EKG mustve been done for you, its just too quick, easy and essential for all heart workups to not have been done. Knowing that your EKG is normal would be very helpful in estimating how serious your heart situation is.

Edit: i missed that last line of the OP.. Looks like theyre going to put you on a Holter monitor to look for arrhythmias. This long term monitor is helpful for "catching" the electrical changes in your heart at the moment you pass out. If you dont pass out with the monitor on, it is still a great tool to catch transient arrhythmias.
 
Erhmm.. Well first off they took a test to see how blood pressure was and so on with some kind of electrodes on my upperbody! everything was fine there! then i got some kind of cream on my left chest and they scanned my heart i could hear it on the computer, and i was able to see some pictures..

it was not the intire heart but a part of it, i think it was the left but i am not sure! they said it was kinda bigger then normal but not close enough to be anything dangerous, all though it could evolve into that!

Bigger maybe a wrong word, "thicker" it was!

but doc said i would be fine, all in about 20days i will get that heart monitor on, 10days and the they can read something from that..
otherwise i have always been healthy i am rarely sick and i do alot of sports and active, i dont smoke nor drink! happens that i drink but its not often! I eat healthy and so on

We have no history of heart problems in the familie

Its kinda hard because my head is playing tricks on me alitte, i do have anxiety and sometimes i just begin to produce addrenalin and start making something up in my head, really cant wait untill i get that machine on and they say its all GOOOD! then these stupid problems that i make will stop!
 
when i was 15 i added 25kgs on 1year, and next year added 20kgs ive been zigzagging in cutting bulking from that year of now! i kinda had a eating disorder and found out that bodybuilding was my way out of my hell!

ive done 2cycles. test eq / test primo
thats all
 
Well that is good....at least it didn't get out of hand and do too much real permanent damage before it was diagnosed (this is rare, usually it gets out of hand before you figure it out). So long as you keep an eye on it and take whatever medicine/advice the doctor gives you, you should be fine. Its just something you'll have to keep an eye on for the rest of your life, but we all have to see doctors every so often anyways....you will just have to have your heart checked out more often than most in order to be safe.
 
As stupid as this may sound ive just been healed by my girlfriends mother, she does this healing thingy that i actually dont believe in..
Funny thing is that when you are talking with her you kinda just forget everyday problems and thoughts, i actually managed to chill off so much that i could breathe normaly and dident have addrenalin rushing my vains

So the things that i feel in my everyday time are just comming from my anxiety and thoughts about my heart, causing me to feel things that arent there... Funny how powerfull the mind is?


Yes i am very happy that they have found out about this problem! i would have loved to run more cycles since bodybuilding is such a big part of my life, the person i am today has come out of bodybuilding it simply changed my life.. Im not talking like an adverage joe
when i was 15-16 i weighted 49kg on a 180cm height, as you see i was undernuriched and this gave me alot of social problems due to shyness, now im a ****ing machine at 90kg 10% bf

Allthough my diet is a day to day struggle because i am naturaly only hungry 1-2times a day, i though force 5-6meals down :p

Best thing that could happen was that i could run some kinds of roid again, but im not sure if this is going to happen..
 
Just follow through with the heart thing, it could have just been a false alarm or so mild you won't have to worry about it. There are also non-steroidal alternatives available these days to help you gain.

ManBeast
 
Anabeta, Ostarine (research chemical), need2slin (or similar), natural test boosters.

ManBeast
 
Remind me to duck :D

ManBeast
 
Hey every one! got some news

I took to the hospital my self 5days ago and talked with a night shift doctor wich i told everything, from my scanning at the hospital and that i felt attacks, i also told him i had anxiety of some sort

He was understanding and said that nvm what it was he would make me some papirs so that i could be tested right away, so after half an hour of waiting they checked my pulse and such with some elektodes on my body

for the next test i waited 4hours and they where some kind of elektrodes too, but a whole nother test! doc said it was EKG. He said everything was fine and that my heart was fully normal, i shoudent be afraid since it was kinda minor, he told me that it was a muscle in the left side that had increased in size!

Phewww... I also told him that i was afraid of dieing because i had been reaching about my condition and since the doctors from the very first "heart scan" said it was hypertrofi blabla i would bee sitting home and just reading about everything that could go wrong with "that left chambor"
i read alot about a certain condition, "wich i thought i had" that i just suddenly could die

He said i should stop reading about it since it just worsens my anxeity and i just stop trying to analyze every movement my body does, he said that some times the heart misses a beat and i surely felt that because i was thinking to much wich in return would start my anxiety!

So bros, my anxiety these days has decreased ALOT and i only experience it rarely.. My method of getting it away wich is quite fast, is by thinking that i actually dont have any problem! So thats all cleard up, just need to forget about my previous thoughts!!!




By my knowlagde this muscle in left chambor does grow by resistance training alone, surely androgenes might help to attribute it! It does so to help press blood faster thru the heart helping in aiding us when we lift: Heres something that i found about it:

Musclescience:
Androgens can cause left ventricular hypertrophy. So does heavy resistance training and cardio. The effects of androgen and LVH seem to last up to two years in individuals that both train and take high doses of androgens after the sessation of androgen use. There is a medical bias that LVH is a bad thing.

It is really only significant in athletes that suffer from cardio-megaly. LVH in the medical realm is bad, in the exercise science field it is not of great concern because it is a normal training adaptation within certain bounds.
 
resistance exercise seems to enlarge the heart, but the addition of AAS makes it worse.

"Retrospectively, 43% of the drug-free bodybuilders and 100% of the steroid users had left ventricular wall thickness beyond the normal range of 11 mm. In addition, 1 drug-free subject and 3 steroid users were beyond the critical mark of 13 mm. No subjects demonstrated diastolic dysfunction. In contrast to previous reports, we have demonstrated that left ventricular wall thicknesses >/=13 mm can be found routinely in elite resistance-trained athletes. The use of anabolic steroids concomitant with intensive resistance exercise does appear to augment left ventricular size without dysfunction. Anabolic steroids may accelerate left ventricular wall thickening indirectly by increasing strength, thus augmenting the pressor response."

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Androgenic anabolic steroids and arterial structure and function in male bodybuilders .

Sader MA, Griffiths KA, McCredie RJ, Handelsman DJ, Celermajer DS.

Department of Cardiology, Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, Sydney, Australia.

OBJECTIVES: The study examined arterial and cardiac structure and function in bodybuilders using androgenic anabolic steroids (AAS), compared to non-steroid -using bodybuilder controls. BACKGROUND: Adverse cardiovascular events have been reported in bodybuilders taking anabolic steroids . The cardiovascular effects of AAS, however, have not been investigated in detail. METHODS: We recruited 20 male bodybuilders (aged 35 +/- 3 years), 10 actively using AAS and 10 who denied ever using steroids . Serum lipid and hormone levels, carotid intima-media thickness (IMT), arterial reactivity, and left ventricular (LV) dimensions were measured. Vessel diameter was measured by ultrasound at rest, during reactive hyperemia (an endothelium-dependent response, leading to flow-mediated dilation, FMD), and after sublingual nitroglycerin (GTN, an endothelium-independent dilator). Arterial reactivity was also measured in 10 age-matched non-bodybuilding sedentary controls. RESULTS: Use of AAS was associated with significant decreases in high density lipoprotein cholesterol, sex hormone binding globulin, testosterone and gonadotrophin levels, and significant increases in LV mass and self-reported physical strength (p < 0.05). Carotid IMT (0.60 +/- 0.04 mm vs. 0.63 +/- 0.07 mm), arterial FMD (4.7 +/- 1.4% vs. 4.1 +/- 0.7%) and GTN responses (11.0 +/- 1.9% vs. 14.4 +/- 1.7%) were similar in both bodybuilding groups (p > 0.2). The GTN responses were significantly lower and carotid IMT significantly higher in both bodybuilding groups, however, compared with the non-bodybuilding sedentary controls (p = 0.01). CONCLUSIONS: Although high-level bodybuilding is associated with impaired vascular reactivity and increased arterial thickening, the use of AAS per se is not associated with significant abnormalities of arterial structure or function.


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1: Circulation 1998 Jul 21;98(3):256-61 Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Androgen receptors mediate hypertrophy in cardiac myocytes.

Marsh JD, Lehmann MH, Ritchie RH, Gwathmey JK, Green GE, Schiebinger RJ.

Department of Medicine, Harper Hospital, Detroit, Mich, USA. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: The role of androgens in producing cardiac hypertrophy by direct action on cardiac myocytes is uncertain. Accordingly, we tested the hypothesis that cardiac myocytes in adult men and women express an androgen receptor gene and that myocytes respond to androgens by a hypertrophic response. METHODS AND RESULTS: We used reverse transcription-polymerase chain reaction methods to demonstrate androgen receptor transcripts in multiple tissues and [3H]phenylalanine incorporation and atrial natriuretic peptide secretion as markers of hypertrophy in cultured rat myocytes. Messenger RNA encoding androgen receptors was detected in myocytes of male and female adult rats, neonatal rat myocytes, rat heart, dog heart, and infant and adult human heart. Both testosterone and dihydrotestosterone produced a robust receptor-specific hypertrophic response in myocytes, determined by indices of protein synthesis and atrial natriuretic peptide secretion. CONCLUSIONS: Androgen receptors are present in cardiac myocytes from multiple species, including normal men and women, in a context that permits androgens to modulate the cardiac phenotype and produce hypertrophy by direct, receptor-specific mechanisms. There are clinical implications for therapeutic or illicit use of androgens in humans.
 
good information....most of these guys are scared to talk about this, since its pretty much going to affect the majority of guys who workout....and even a greater majority who use PH/AAS.....their scared of the subject I think. But it should be addressed more often, instead of protecting/worrying about your balls or liver instead.....
 
So what can be done to be safe against this? proper rest? mild cycles?

ManBeast
 
I think your 100% right about that statement, we all know that the heart is under pressure when we do train and the heavier we go the more force is required by the heart!

When i think about something in the human body i always adress back in human history; Humans have always been psysical and active, lifting objects and running. But never in historie as the days we are living in, have humans been able to lift weights on a daily basis! lifting up towards 20,000kgs on an intire workout! This will in some way mutante the heart so that it is able to assist us in our willings

Also a subject like steroids is attractive, they do help us to achieve more mass and strength! So if our training naturally causes LVH then steroids surely must help the heart into more LVH.. Again i would think that people using roids lift heavier then others

Can´t really ignore it, just happy that i dont have the other disease! and that this is quite normal and "good" I think that people should get their blood drawn and hearts chekked more often if they have the choice to do so! By doing it, it determents that we have fully healthy and can keep on doing what we love!

If not so, a problem can be caught in the right time for change before it has done any damage! and medical treatment can be done.
 
Well studies show that LVH induced by steroids return back to normal after 2years of stopping using if i have understood correctly?

I also think the use of blood thinnin medications like propinalol have been showed to help, since the blood will flow easier. <-- but i am not sure ive got it correctly
 
interesting, there might be some baby asprin showing up on my next wal*mart run...

ManBeast
 
So what can be done to be safe against this? proper rest? mild cycles?

ManBeast

I'm not so sure there really is anything that can be done about it....either you lift weights and take supps/Cycles or you don't. Some people might be susceptible to certain stims or AAS or PH's which might set their heart off in the wrong direction....some can just lift for decades and maybe that alone results in problems. The only real answer is to get your heart checked every year or so....and I mean properly, EKG/echo whatever you can get done. This way? you can "nip it in the bud" and maybe figure out what you did that previous 365 that may not have agreed with you. But if its gonna happen? its gonna happen...probably a lot to do with genetics and a predisposition for heart related issues. how we train and what we take just exacerbates it. the key is to catch it early and then you can be aware of it, and manage it (with meds or keeping your training within guidelines). You have to be more careful than the average bear....always keeping an eye on heart rate, BP, lipids etc. which turns out to be a good thing....you are forced to monitor all these things. Contrary to popular belief, just because you have some sort of heart condition it does not mean you need to lay in fuqin bed the rest of your life :D
 
Well studies show that LVH induced by steroids return back to normal after 2years of stopping using if i have understood correctly?

I also think the use of blood thinnin medications like propinalol have been showed to help, since the blood will flow easier. <-- but i am not sure ive got it correctly

at first they put you on coumadin if necessary, a Rx blood thinner....then its suggested you take an aspirin a day the rest of your life. also, any necessary meds to keep your BP in check (lower than average is suggested) would be prescribed....and if your heart is actually damaged/enlarged maybe a beta-blocker to keep heart rate in check (it will slow your heart rate). But as for things returning to normal, that varies person to person....some may return almost to normal, some may see NO improvement....or maybe some improvement. depends. I got back to about 3/4 or so of where I was previously.....but I let my problem get WAY out of hand since I did not want to go to the doctor. so that is a HUGE improvement from say 6 years ago where I was probably 1/4 and under of max capacity......
 
Tell me more about your condition, u got the same mate?
How and when did u find out, what have you run, what did you do to make it return ect.?
 
Tell me more about your condition, u got the same mate?
How and when did u find out, what have you run, what did you do to make it return ect.?

my heart was enlarged, and I would get out of breath easy, but I didn't want to go to the doctor.....then it went downhill really fast, like not being able to breath at all sometimes...so I HAD to go to the doctor....took them forever but they diagnosed it. I was 32 when it happened, so I had been working out since i was 15 and taking supps/stims etc all that time. Only took steriods from say 30 1/2 till 32 though. who knows WTF it was, probably a culmination of everything over the years. never did anything extreme though, other than for maybe that year or two where I tried just about everything AAS at least once, ....did a lot of ECA and ECA-Y and a bit of clen in my 20's though....also the andro's and 1AD/4AD etc from the later 90's.....there is never really a way to know "what" did "it"....unless you were a meth or coke user or something....
 
Bvits are pumped into alot of preworkout and energy drinks so i think i do get plenty of these!


Its all good to hear
The reason why i also posted this thread was so that people with some of the Ph/steroid related heart questions could get answers, if people experienced some stuff and searched on the board

also so people with anxeity could follow alittle! its all good and nice to see the thread getting some valuable information about it!
 
I am going to make my self a Anxiety stack, starting by using one ingridience to notice the effects and then stacking more!
Ive heard phenibut should be good and L-leutine ?
 
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