Self Fulfilling Prophecies and methyl steroids

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    Hey guys this is my very first post, before you rip me apart I was in GNC the other day (because it is next to my place and I needed my pwo sup bad) and some guy who never lifted before asked the store rep "what can i take to gain the most muscle" and the guy pointed him right to Methyl-1D and advised him to take, I went over and gave both of them a load of crap...people just don't understand what these things are or how to use them

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    Quote Originally Posted by jayts22 View Post
    Hey guys this is my very first post, before you rip me apart I was in GNC the other day (because it is next to my place and I needed my pwo sup bad) and some guy who never lifted before asked the store rep "what can i take to gain the most muscle" and the guy pointed him right to Methyl-1D and advised him to take, I went over and gave both of them a load of crap...people just don't understand what these things are or how to use them
    That's DHEA and forskolin isn't it? Not really hugely dangerous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminis View Post
    When it comes down to it we here at AM are about safety first. If that means we have to lose a few battles to win the war then so be it. A lot of bro's come on dead set on taking this or that and want advice. Do you suggest then that we ignore him and say don't take it your not old enough or experienced enough? Or do we stay in line with our goal (safety) and recognize the fact that this person is going to use it anyway and give him sound advice that will make the cycle as safe as possible.

    We don't suggest those under 21 take anything but they will. We don't suggest nor promote it but in that instance I'd rather give the person a few tips to make it safe then to tell him to buzz off.
    Exactly! I couldn't agree more to this sentiment. I have a younger brother, who has watched my progress through multiple cycles of methylated ph's and real-deal injectables; who has been too eagerly attempting to experiment. It puts me in between a rock and a hard place because part of me wants to tell him to forget about it, hold off, and wait until he is in his mid to late twenties; however, I know that I have responsibility as an older brother to make sure he doesn't cause damage to himself by cycling the improper way. I figured that if he is going to do it, there will be nothing stopping someone with that much motivation. So, he might as well do it the right way under my supervision etc. I even showed him the forum and explained to him how to search different aspects of cycling such as pct, gyno prevention, liver protection etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150
    09-16-2004, 09:59 AM

    I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers. A time when use and mis-use was a very serious concern by many members on the board. A time when statements like; "every kid wanting to get huge will be eating this **** like candy" and was of a serious concern. Our conscienses were very finely tuned to the potential dangers of the use and abuse of these compounds by anyone, and especially young kids just coming into the BB world/sport, with very little to no training and diet experience.

    Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl. Kids who don't know how to eat or train right. Kids who have trained for the first time in their lives now wanting to take steroids.

    What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?

    Please note: I am not anti steroids, nor anti kids (young men), nor anti kids on steroids. I'm sure this may offend a few too many. But surely there are some here who remember "back in the day" when we used conscience and caution when supplying advise.

    I'm sure I'm not alone here.
    Wow! Has it really been 5 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by theface View Post
    Exactly! I couldn't agree more to this sentiment. I have a younger brother, who has watched my progress through multiple cycles of methylated ph's and real-deal injectables; who has been too eagerly attempting to experiment. It puts me in between a rock and a hard place because part of me wants to tell him to forget about it, hold off, and wait until he is in his mid to late twenties; however, I know that I have responsibility as an older brother to make sure he doesn't cause damage to himself by cycling the improper way. I figured that if he is going to do it, there will be nothing stopping someone with that much motivation. So, he might as well do it the right way under my supervision etc. I even showed him the forum and explained to him how to search different aspects of cycling such as pct, gyno prevention, liver protection etc.
    What you and everyone else is failing to recognize is that proper use of poison makes it no less lethal.

    Get back to us in 20 years and let us know if your failing liver or kidneys will forget that you responsibly used poison at 21 or 25.

    Not flaming you but at 21 or 25 there is virtually zero foresight and no insight to the value of your health.
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    does anyone have any advice on deca-diboldazol
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    <rant>

    Just wanted to bump this for some more awareness and/or to stir things up again.

    There has been a slew of "Tomorrow I'm starting 'such and such cycle' and I was wondering............"

    I know that we discussed the virtues of teaching and sharing before. I am still of the school of thought:


    If you are wondering...then the only thing you should be starting is research.

    </rant>

    I think the best thing you can do is advise kids on how to do things saftley. if you have ago at a kid do you really think that will put them off ? No. they will just go and **** them self up another way.

    Teaching is the key, flaming doesn't work.

    How many kids do you think are on gear thease days ? I'd say millions. How many deaths do you hear ?


    I'm not justifying kids ****ing them selfs up. I back the kids that do it safetly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Wow! Has it really been 5 years.What you and everyone else is failing to recognize is that proper use of poison makes it no less lethal.

    Get back to us in 20 years and let us know if your failing liver or kidneys will forget that you responsibly used poison at 21 or 25.

    Not flaming you but at 21 or 25 there is virtually zero foresight and no insight to the value of your health.


    90% of kids in the uk binge drink and get wasted every week end and do drugs. they will be in the same postion as the Anabolic users in there 50's. Not justifying it. Just saying if kids aren't ****ing them selfs up this way. they sure as hell would find another way too.
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    Interesting thread
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Wow! Has it really been 5 years.What you and everyone else is failing to recognize is that proper use of poison makes it no less lethal.

    Get back to us in 20 years and let us know if your failing liver or kidneys will forget that you responsibly used poison at 21 or 25.

    Not flaming you but at 21 or 25 there is virtually zero foresight and no insight to the value of your health.
    It astounds me how society today has become obsessed with their image. My opinion is 85-90% of the guys in this forum using PH, AAS, and such products are not going to step foot on a bodybuilding stage, or compete in strength athletics. You can grow muscle naturally without synthetic help. Everyday athletes dont need that edge, or the risk associated with it. I admit I used the original 4 andro at 24 years old at a low dose for a few weeks. Then at 29 years old I used M1T. I believe that to be old enough to use it, and I used it safely. I dont advocate it. Only for a few as a last resort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooky32 View Post
    It astounds me how society today has become obsessed with their image. My opinion is 85-90% of the guys in this forum using PH, AAS, and such products are not going to step foot on a bodybuilding stage, or compete in strength athletics.
    What's scarier is that most have never worked out until they bought OTC steroids.
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    True. I was for a few years prior. I took powerlifting in High school.
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    lol
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    WHATS so Funny?
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    bumping this great discussion here
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    OK, I am getting really pissed off that now superdrol, epistane, and Halodrol are also being discontinued. I about cried when they took TREN. I am finding what is left is getting more expensive, and its almost cheaper to go the real AAS ROUTE. Wow, back in the day I could go get 1AD, 4AD, and 19 NOR, and it was all good. I also had real ECA stacks for fat burning. I am sick of the FDA and pharmaceutical companies, and politicians.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooky32 View Post
    OK, I am getting really pissed off that now superdrol, epistane, and Halodrol are also being discontinued. I about cried when they took TREN. I am finding what is left is getting more expensive, and its almost cheaper to go the real AAS ROUTE. Wow, back in the day I could go get 1AD, 4AD, and 19 NOR, and it was all good. I also had real ECA stacks for fat burning. I am sick of the FDA and pharmaceutical companies, and politicians.
    WHAT

    they didnt ban halo, epi and superdrol....I seriously hope your talking about the CEL range or something wtf im scurred halp.

    no but seriously?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heat Miser View Post
    I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers. A time when use and mis-use was a very serious concern by many members on the board. A time when statements like; "every kid wanting to get huge will be eating this **** like candy" and was of a serious concern. Our conscienses were very finely tuned to the potential dangers of the use and abuse of these compounds by anyone, and especially young kids just coming into the BB world/sport, with very little to no training and diet experience.

    Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl. Kids who don't know how to eat or train right. Kids who have trained for the first time in their lives now wanting to take steroids.

    What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?

    Please note: I am not anti steroids, nor anti kids (young men), nor anti kids on steroids. I'm sure this may offend a few too many. But surely there are some here who remember "back in the day" when we used conscience and caution when supplying advise.

    I'm sure I'm not alone here.

    I've read many "older" threads about the dangers and warning given out about methylated drugs, but I've also read some threads that were quite the opposite. I have been reading through the discussion postings over the past several months educating myself, going back to as far as 2005, and I was actually shocked at some the advice given out. There was one thread about someone running Superdrol, a 5-6 week cycle, using only OTC PCT, and the member was talking about going directly back on Superdrol 2-3 later, after PCT, other form members were in complete agreement with this....I was really surprised. I guess it also proves how far this community, and anabolic knowledge has progressed in the past several years...

    As for the boards conscience its demographic has changed, anabolics, particularly the OTC variety have become more prevalent and its widespread usage has brought on a new a and younger vanguard to the forms limelight. I have noticed that the general consensus, thank god, is to discourage those under 21 from using any type of hormone or hormone activating substance....

    The nature of our society has become enamored with and immersed in the idea that anything can be fixed by simply "popping a pill," or perhaps its a product of our collectively dwindling attention spans? Why train hard and eat correctly when you have pills being pimped out that promise you results with the smallest amount of effort, particularly steroids and steroid precursors. Animals will do the least amount of work possible to achieve a particular goal, what makes us any different? I am not pro or anti supplement companies, hell I use a ton of stuff myself, coupled with proper training and clean eating of course, my pet peeve is more with the general stupification of people; similar questions that have been answered again and again on this form are brought up repeatedly, many of these questions could have been solved by a simple Google search with anabolicminds.com in the inquiry or an AM search. I understand that people ask questions because they need answers, and those dealing with roid use, usually are associated with nasty side effects that to be honest can be terrifying, but this is just another example of how people are looking for a quick fix; I would say that theme of an "easy fix" is endemic to our society, and thus rears its ugly head in all societal constructs, including this board.

    I should note that I myself posted a large thread about gyno from Hdrol some time back, but I have some very specific questions regarding Nolva dose timings, etc. that I couldn't locate any where on here; I also used the thread to network with other who had suffered similar side effects from a non-aromatizing PH. I also found out with previous, and then more current blood work, that my high estrogen levels during this cycle were caused by a previously unknown hormonal imbalance brought on about from god knows what....

    Just my thoughts.....
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    To be honest, I'm only 23 years old and the first time i ever ran a PH I had only been lifting religiously for a year. I was 19 and recovering from an ACL surgery and desperately wanted to get back into shape. A friend told me about IDS Mass Tabs -____- yes i know boys. Mass tabs was my first PH. Anyway the point of all this is that there is nothing we can really do on the boards. It's sort of a catch 22. Some kids are blissfully ignorant of this stuff and just lifts naturally, they are the lucky ones. Others come onto these boards read about how amazing ph's are and walk into their supp stores and purchase them (the fault of the boards). The most dangerous is when an ignorant kid walks into the supplement store like I did, picks up a box of mass tabs and takes them having no idea what PCT is and thinking that it is "all natural" like it says on the box (supplement industry's fault) there is nothing anyone can really do. kinda sucks. just gotta make sure that even if we can't stop these kids from taking them, the best we can do is answer the questions asked because we shouldn't kid ourselves. these boys are gna take them regardless. might as well give them the best shot possible to recover.
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    Its something I have said in the past, and not many wanted to agree with me, but guys are going to do them regardless. Its just life nowadays. I will say I am 35 and I didnt touch anything till 24, or 25 years old. I mostly now only do anything pre contest, and maybe a bulking cycle after deployments.
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    I think attitudes need to change in regards to teens using prohormones from older board members. And I don't mean "accept that any teenager will use them and let them be", but, I mean instead of flaming and insulting a young trainer about their stupidity of using steroids at their age/levels, how about nurture them - and not in a motherly way, but as a teacher/guide.

    A lot of younger kids look up to the bigger guys (regardless of their professionality or not), and will listen to what they have to say as long as they're being told in a way that is still positive and helpful.

    We all know that flaming a kid on here is not going to stop him from using them if he is so set on doing it, especially if his 5 other mates are doing them to, however, they are taking an extra step by registering on a forum like this and seeking to ask questions (no matter how stupid they may be to some people) and that says a lot more than the ones who are out to abuse the substances. So, I think the older members/more experienced members (and this isn't a put down to anyone) should think about what they say, because they are highly influential to the younger generation in this sport/recreation who want to look better and feel better about themselves.

    Educate, help and inform more so than insult, flame and push onto them the most damaging examples these products cause. It will cause more harm than good.

    My 2c.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oze View Post
    I think attitudes need to change in regards to teens using prohormones from older board members. And I don't mean "accept that any teenager will use them and let them be", but, I mean instead of flaming and insulting a young trainer about their stupidity of using steroids at their age/levels, how about nurture them - and not in a motherly way, but as a teacher/guide.

    A lot of younger kids look up to the bigger guys (regardless of their professionality or not), and will listen to what they have to say as long as they're being told in a way that is still positive and helpful.

    We all know that flaming a kid on here is not going to stop him from using them if he is so set on doing it, especially if his 5 other mates are doing them to, however, they are taking an extra step by registering on a forum like this and seeking to ask questions (no matter how stupid they may be to some people) and that says a lot more than the ones who are out to abuse the substances. So, I think the older members/more experienced members (and this isn't a put down to anyone) should think about what they say, because they are highly influential to the younger generation in this sport/recreation who want to look better and feel better about themselves.

    Educate, help and inform more so than insult, flame and push onto them the most damaging examples these products cause. It will cause more harm than good.

    My 2c.
    the piece you are leaving out is the potential legal liability for giving any advice other than "don't do it", particularly with someone under 18.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    the piece you are leaving out is the potential legal liability for giving any advice other than "don't do it", particularly with someone under 18.
    But he's not saying "don't tell them no, don't do it". He's just saying to go about it in a more mature manner. I know when I was young and got on svtperformance and got blasted for street racing in traffic I shyed away from the board. We need these kids to stick around and get educated, whether it's about PH's or training advice. Knowledge is power, lets share some with the youngins.

    Sent from my Android device
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    I couldnt agree More. I apologize if I have blasted anyone. I will lead just like I lead those on the ship. Thanks for the reminder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Eagle View Post
    But he's not saying "don't tell them no, don't do it". He's just saying to go about it in a more mature manner. I know when I was young and got on svtperformance and got blasted for street racing in traffic I shyed away from the board. We need these kids to stick around and get educated, whether it's about PH's or training advice. Knowledge is power, lets share some with the youngins.

    Sent from my Android device
    And you know what? the 17 year old still won't listen, still will do it, yet will get other people who try and "help them run the cycle as safely as they can" and thats where liability issues start
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Eagle View Post
    We need these kids to stick around and get educated, whether it's about PH's or training advice. Knowledge is power, lets share some with the youngins.
    Say's who?!

    Most of the education and knowledge they get are from the same ignorant now 21 yo's who now know everything because they are 21.

    I am not my brothers keeper I am his brother. You tell him what he needs to hear not what he wants to hear. Sorry your feelings got hurt
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    And you know what? the 17 year old still won't listen, still will do it, yet will get other people who try and "help them run the cycle as safely as they can" and thats where liability issues start
    The point is, there are ways to go about explaining and educating why they shouldn't do a PH, rather than trying to make them feel like idiots for thinking about taking some. Don't forget that 10 years from now, that 17 year old will be 27 and he isn't rejected from the minute he joins a board that could be 10 years of education to pass on to a 17 year old that was in the same position he was at that age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Eagle View Post
    The point is, there are ways to go about explaining and educating why they shouldn't do a PH, rather than trying to make them feel like idiots for thinking about taking some. Don't forget that 10 years from now, that 17 year old will be 27 and he isn't rejected from the minute he joins a board that could be 10 years of education to pass on to a 17 year old that was in the same position he was at that age.

    Sent from my Android device
    no, far more likely they end up like monsterbox here

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/searc...archid=5325195

    who started cycling at 19 because he wouldn't listen, and is on TRT at 21 and he's "sure" it had nothing to do with the cycling, that he had low test to start with. thats how he was a 10% bf at 5'7 + 185lbs, low test.....

    And if they are smart enough to listen at all, then they'll listen whether the messasge is sugar coated or not. Like with many online forums, people don't come for information, they really come to have someone validate what they already decided on their own.
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    You obviously aren't understanding what I'm trying to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Eagle View Post
    You obviously aren't understanding what I'm trying to say.

    Sent from my Android device
    I'm hearing what you say, but telling you it doesn't work that way in reality. The kids who won't respond to "its dumb and pointless for you to take at 17" also don't respond to anything nicer because they've already decided to take it, probably because the guys on their football team who are bigger than them have already taken it. And anabolic minds as a forum can't afford the risk of someone suggesting things to a minor to reduce their risk on cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I'm hearing what you say, but telling you it doesn't work that way in reality. The kids who won't respond to "its dumb and pointless for you to take at 17" also don't respond to anything nicer because they've already decided to take it, probably because the guys on their football team who are bigger than them have already taken it. And anabolic minds as a forum can't afford the risk of someone suggesting things to a minor to reduce their risk on cycle.
    I don't think anyone here is arguing that someone should make suggestions to them, and I think it's a pretty weak **** rationalization that you justify talking down to someone just because you THINK it doesn't matter. Just take a deep breath, remember that you were young and dumb once, and flaming someone doesn't help any situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Eagle View Post
    I don't think anyone here is arguing that someone should make suggestions to them, and I think it's a pretty weak **** rationalization that you justify talking down to someone just because you THINK it doesn't matter. Just take a deep breath, remember that you were young and dumb once, and flaming someone doesn't help any situation.

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    and playing with someone with kid gloves doesn't help the situation either. If they are that thin skinned then they'll have enough problems dealing with the rest of their life that I don't really give a damn what happens to them. If they aren't tough enough to handle some negativity over the internet, they surely shouldn't be taking steroids.
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    Its about mentorship, and being a big brother to those young guys out there doing this because their friend who is "swole, or jacked" telling him it will get him big without telling him any cycling advice or how to protect himself from potential sides. I am sure we have all seen the big kid walking around with acne all over and big muscles. There are going to be a few who listen and a few who dont. I will continue to try to prevent by being that servant leader who listens and responds to their questions.
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    Several issues to consider:

    1. Underage discussion is against forum rules. Regardless of the sincerity of anyone's motives it is unacceptable. It has not been beyond the realm of possibility that those of age who counsel underage poster will also suffer the consequences of said under-aged poster rule violations.

    2. There is much research out there that show piphysial (growth) plates may not fuse/close until into very late teens to early twenties. The manipulation of hormones, estrogen in particularly, may and can prematurely fuse/close the plates resulting in stunted growth.

    3. Most kids don't have health insurance nor do they have any reason to have had an extensive enough comprehensive health tests done in advance to know their health status. Most would have no idea what their lipids, liver, kidney or any other organ health may be before undertaking such drug use. This would also apply for their post use as well.

    4. Most have little idea whether or not they have an hereditary disposition for things like hypertension, diabetes, dyslipidemia, heart disease, liver disease and or other organ health issues.

    There are a host of issues that they set them selves up for by undertaking the use of steroids and the advice of some well meaning "mentor" type does not preclude these issues from being a serious liability for the user, the "mentor" and not one this board allows either of you to assume by engaging in discussion of under-aged use.
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    aaaaaand its a wrap!
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    Well, when we say mentor, we don't mean it in a way that helps them with their cycle. However, educating them on the points you mentioned and more, in a way that shows the consequences of their potential actions in helpful, rational ways.

    All I'm trying to say is, kids look up to the bigger guys, and the bigger guys could do more to help than insulting them by issuing a bit of education of what can happen, the things they're gambling with etc. The list goes on. I'm not talking about sugar-coating things, or mothering them, but, being more of a role model more than anything.
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    Me too, but I would never discuss anything with anyone under 18. I recommend nicely they stop taking it, PCT and carry on naturally until years later. I never did anything for test until 24 years old.
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    The way I look at it is if someone wants to try something dangerous to them and they obviously don't have the knowledge or still have lots of natural potential, or don't train or eat right, the first thing I do is try and drive it into their brains that they could still get good gains naturally, and advise them on their diet/training/supplementation.

    If they still refuse to listen I'm gonna give them a little advice on how to cycle or at least point them in the right direction. Because if they're gonna do it, they're gonna do it, and I can't sleep at night knowing I could have helped someone not ruin their body.
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    True. Society today is one of quick fixes, and enhancement in any way possible. I wish I could afford Hany Rambod and a full cycle for my next contest. I would do it. I am nearly 36, but still. I will not, however, do steroids just to look better for no reason. I do not recommend anyone under 25 to do them.
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    I started taking methyls when i was 20 years old after 4.5 years of natural lifting. I had no pct, got up to 208 and was huge. I WAS AN IDIOT. Know i do not take anything beccause i have been reading this board for 2 years and i started to listen to what people who i knew that they knew what they were taalking about. I am the teenager you speak of didnt even know what aromataze was or clomid nolva or that 6-bromo had an alpha and a beta lol. Know through research i know all this so before you throw kids away, enlighten them, sure some will not listen but some, like me, will gain from it and will comprehend the damage and rewards of intelligent AAS use, proper pct and im not talking about milk thistle, and how to train better, EAT BETTER!!, and be a better mentor to others. It wil probably be today when some kid asks about a product with estra, 13 ethyl, 2a 17 dimethly AKA 2 trens and one SD and thinks that it is perfectly safe. You educated me and know i am 22 and responsible and know not to touch AAS till at least 25 preferably 28. GO help others and you helped me.
  

  
 

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