Self Fulfilling Prophecies and methyl steroids

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  1. I'll chime in here because, like b5150, I remember the days when most boards on the web had a "conscience" surrounding underaged/underexperienced roid usage. I agree that consciousness surrounding the issue has declined, not by the boards themselves but by society in general. This isn't something just localized to bodybuilding drugs though. As a whole we all tolerate things now that we wouldn't have 5, 10, or 20 years ago.

    It's definitely worth taking somewhat of a stand on but the truth is that with the age of tech where "google" is a verb, kids can and will find anything they need/want. The best we can really do is give them ALL the info they need, good and bad, and hope that they can make a well informed decision.


  2. I sure as hell wished there was a site like this 13 years ago when I did my first cycle of T. Cyp at the tender age of 16 with no PCT. One of my nuts is still the size of a raisin.

    I'm thankfull this site exists now, since I bought a bottle of Halovar thinking it was a bb supplement only to find out it was legal gear. Who the hell knew they were selling roids at the supplement store?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by edwards View Post
    I sure as hell wished there was a site like this 13 years ago when I did my first cycle of T. Cyp at the tender age of 16 with no post cycle therapy. One of my nuts is still the size of a raisin.

    I'm thankfull this site exists now, since I bought a bottle of Halovar thinking it was a bb supplement only to find out it was legal gear. Who the hell knew they were selling roids at the supplement store?
    A valid point. I guess that's one thing we can be more sure of now.....that even the youngest users are pretty well informed about what they are doing. Save, of course, for the few who are just too unreasonable to do any amount of research and instead just track down a source and start in.
  4. Lightbulb I agree 100%!


    Quote Originally Posted by b5150 View Post
    I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers...
    Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl...
    What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?
    ...
    I'm sure I'm not alone here.
    I agree 100%!

    I think old forum members no longer participate like they used to; you are one of the few that I remember from "back in the day."

    I did not read too far beyond your post - I don't think the issue requires much in-depth analysis, all we have to do is act. There is nothing we can do to control marketing of products by companies making false claims and putting kids at risk, the only thing we can do in this forum is inform people of the potential consequences of misuse especially if you are not an adult and/or experienced athlete. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ultimate objective here is to motivate forum members to get their basic meal and workout plan in place and be disciplined enough to follow it and learn from it. If they get this under their belt they will have much better understanding of bodybuilding concepts and how they apply to their unique physiques - we are all different.

    Although I am not a moderator (don't want to be one either) or a board sponsor, I give you my pledge to help steer minors away from these supplements in hopes to get the forum under control again.

    We already have a good practical solution to this problem - direct them to BOBO's FLA programs

    If I completely misunderstood your intention please delete this thread, but also PM me - I want to help.

    Thanks.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Gethuge View Post
    A valid point. I guess that's one thing we can be more sure of now.....that even the youngest users are pretty well informed about what they are doing. Save, of course, for the few who are just too unreasonable to do any amount of research and instead just track down a source and start in.
    I see plenty of those posts "I'm 14 days into my xxx cycle, and my nuts feel weird, should I start taking my restore now"
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  6. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    This thread is three years old. I have been a Mod and now an Admin in that time. It is fair to say that I have slightly less enthusiasm on the matter. I can no longer act as the community conscience. It is my hope that the community will reflect its values for those who enter.

  7. It seems there has been a heavy influx of the BB.com types over the past year or so. Granted, we were forewarned by Bobo prior to the onslaught but there is only so much to say. I've been attacked for telling people to research and then post their question. At one level I could not care who gets the "***** Tits" or shrinks their balls to raisins and needs to be on HRT as result. Ethically though, I feel responsible to at least warn or encourage those to seek information prior to starting their "cycles"

    I think the whole "their going to do it anyway so we might as well give them the information" mindset is a copout. I think that you should not be able to start a thread unless you have been active on the board for 3-6 mos. Not saying no posting just no thread starting. These "I am doing an 8 week cycle of PP/Epi/superdrol do I need to do a SERM in post cycle therapy" threads are ridiculous.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  8. how do you provide an answer to someone, who can easily obtain designers and ph's even still after the ban, about obtaining proper pct? (I'm by no means asking to source, I do fine with that) I'm just saying, why give the information for "damage control" if you can't give ALL the information they need? Because you know a lot of them ask right away, 'well how do i get nolva, clomid,etc..?' I think that's where a lot of the inexperienced dabblers go wrong and just decide on using an OTC standalone for PCT...
    thoughts anyone?

  9. in regards to post i just made...
    I made that statement to go along with the advice of 'clean diet, proper training, recovery, reaching genetic potential, growth plates...etc" when attacking the problem of youngsters wanting to be jacked without the knowledge of the damage they can cause themselves.

  10. All Newbie bish's please follow THIS CYCLE!

    1. Workout hard - There are many different workout regimes, many that work well. Generally: Strength training is in the 6 rep range / Bodybuilding in the 8-10 rep range. - Rep range warmup: 15 ( sets 1 & 2 ) Working: 10, 8, 6 last three sets add drop sets to failure )

    2. Fast Efficient Workouts = 1hr - This is not hard and fast but studies have shown that Cortisol rises after 1hr

    3. Protein shake immediately after workout and then protein meal with carbs etc within 1hr

    4. Creatine - Mono or CEE you decide. Both before and after workout.

    5. Daily meals - 5 - 6 day ( including shakes ) protein = 1g per pound of body weight. Meal 1 ( breakies ) is shake plus oatmeal or whatever else you want ( apple is good fibre / system crap mover ), Meal 6 is post workout shake with creatine etc and then solid food meal. Carbs tapered down from morning to evening and fats tapered up from morning to evening. Protein is a constant.

    6. Sleep 8 - 10 hrs a night ( very imp for all natural BB'ers )

    7. Supps - Do you note the order in which these are and where supps come??? - a) Multivitamin / B complex b) Whey protein c) creatine e) Test boosters / stacks etc

    Most importantly do you see the order of these things?

    Exercises: Compound movements i.e. two arm two leg exercises.

    1. Squats - Biggest muscle and boosts test like crazy, work em hard and see results big time.

    2. Deadlifts / Chins / Bent over Rows / Pulldowns - 1st attempt either an palm up or palm down chin at the beginning of your back workout, if you can do one, try two, if you can do 15, add weight. Most important for back is to make the mind / muscle connection. Concentrate ( start with low weight and excellent form ) on getting a good contraction and not swinging with the weight. Calm controlled up down with good squeeze of lats at bottom of rep. All about the connection / squeeze

    3. Leg press

    4. Flat Bench Dumbell / Barbell - Always swap it up, it takes more muscle etc to do dumbells ( stabilizing muscles etc ) but switch it up - Start with dips to hit lower chest then move to flat bench / incline.

    5. Core work - Abs / lower back - work the weaker harder.

    This should give you a good idea....Best thing for test.....squats ....good form, warm up well, be careful and grow!

    Once you've made some good gainz on that cycle, we'll talk after you have built a solid 5 year hardcore muscle foundation!

    Much Love,

    Neoborn

  11. Quote Originally Posted by dunk826 View Post
    in regards to post i just made...
    I made that statement to go along with the advice of 'clean diet, proper training, recovery, reaching genetic potential, growth plates...etc" when attacking the problem of youngsters wanting to be jacked without the knowledge of the damage they can cause themselves.
    Its a similar argument that happens in all sorts of areas. Does having condoms available as part of an anti-aids initiative encourage teenage sex? Does supplying heroin addicts with clean new needles encourage them to shoot up more?

    In my perspective as an older prick, no it really doesn't encourage it in more than a tiny fraction of the people. For the most part, people who have self destructive personalities will find a way to hurt themselves regardless. And people who don't have enough concern for their health will damage their health. Heck, a Hardee's monster thickburger has 43g of saturated fat, and over 100g of total fat! Anyone who has such little concern for themselves really gets what they get. My dad had 2/3 of one lung removed from cancer, I can't blame the cigarette companies for that.... Who ever believed that breathing in smoke wasn't unhealthy?

    Basically I think you may get a handful out of 100 who irresponsibly do a cycle going ahead and doing it because they see novadex xt or aPCT and think that is all they need. The 98 of the irresponsible ones would do it regardless if the label on the bottle of superdrol said "this will make your balls shrink to raisin size, but the extras in 300 used it".

    I'm a believer that the current group of designers shouldnt' be able to be sold solo, without a reasonable PCT with them. But the only way to "force" that would be to get the government involved, and then the real answer is that the designers are unsafe and so they'd get banned.

    Whats really funny tho in an odd sort of way is that it is evolution at work. Someone not smart enough to figure out what they are putting into their body before they take it may end up being unable to breed later. Go Darwin!

    There does seem to be a small light at the end of the tunnel tho. There are a number of promising OTC PCT products out there now based around resveratrol in part that should actually work. I'm doing an epistane / revolt (same as max-lmg or x-mass) cycle in late october/early november, and I've decided to use a non-serm PCT. I'm going with Dermacrine Sustain from Primoridal Performance solo for PCT. I'm doing bloodwork before cycle, and after PCT so we'll all be able to see some real world results. I'll have nolva on hand in case it all goes sour mind you . But i'm pretty confident.

  12. I'm a believer that the current group of designers shouldnt' be able to be sold solo, without a reasonable post cycle therapy with them. But the only way to "force" that would be to get the government involved, and then the real answer is that the designers are unsafe and so they'd get banned.
    This definitely would help address a lot of grief with respect to abuse. But would it actually lead to a more educated and aware user?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by xarjun View Post
    This definitely would help address a lot of grief with respect to abuse. But would it actually lead to a more educated and aware user?
    Nope. but if its sold over the counter, it ought to not leave your body parts in a non-usable state afterwards. No other "nutritional" products on the market do that, it wouldn't be tolerated. So doing what we can to at least minimize the permanent or long term damage that gets done would help

    I'm an almost 40 year old professional with a house and family and it was hard for me to convince myself not to do a cycle yet. I have all the materials, was going to do a cycle for my 40th birthday. But I'm not ready yet, it really would be a waste, I can make almost steroidal gains just by taking in 4000cal a day

  14. It is true...sadly, the overriding care and concern have vanished. I went into the supp store near me a while ago for the first time in a year or so (cause I shop here now ), and the guy working there proudly presented the supp which contains ALL THREE (Halodrol, Superdrol, and Pheraplex) together.
    I've been out of the loop for a while, so I didn't see the ultimate recent (year and a half, say) playing out of the supp game. I was astonished, recalling the logs from 2002-5 which showed the potential HDL/LDL and liver toxicity issues, not to mention potential other shutdown factors or damage for youngsters, from the use of single methylated prosteroids/hormones.
    So now we can stack all of 'em in one convenient, easy-to-swallow pill! Oh, and just take a little milk thistle and your liver will be fine!?...Yikes.....

    Well, it is what it is, I guess. Hopefully a group of knowledgable individuals can help by dropping important facts into these discussions and offering a voice of rasonable authority. I certainly won't preach, but I am very concerned about the health and longevity of those involved in bodybuilding, and especially those here at AM.

  15. You have to also remember that P.C.T is a fairly recent idea. In the old days they just gradually went down in dose. The reason for PCT is to get your natural test production started again. Even if you don't use a P.C.T product your test production will return to normal, it will just take a little bit longer. Whether you use PCT or not though there is a chance there will still be some permanent damage to your endocrine system, you will not produce as much testorone naturally as before you ever started using anabolics.....Another thing is the attitude of people not saying "no" to anabolics, but saying wait until you are 21. Why not just direct people not to use steriods at all, instead of telling them it is ok but they have to wait till their 21st birthday. Also why 21?. People can't really make clear decisions for themselves until after 25 years of age, there was a recent study on this. The brains "decision making center" isn't fully developed until 25 years.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/scien...in_10-13.html#

    Another thing I hate seeing is post like "Get you diet and training in order first, then consider steroids". If their diet and training is already worked out they should have no need for steroids and should be gaining muscle without them. Steroids are going to make a difference whether or not their diet is in order. They should have a good diet and training program REGARDLESS!. Also with support supplements, the more is better attitude is self-destructive. I really don't think that trying to stop the side effects of one pill with another is helpful. Think about it, the liver processes everything you put in your mouth, all food. It works especially hard at digesting protein and fat, with the high protein intake that people use it just has to work harder. The more protein you eat, the harder it works. Its main function is to convert glucose to glycogen. It has so many other functions though... The more pills you take the harder it works. So if you are taking a methyl steroid, and then taking support supplements its just working that much harder because it has to process that much more. It has so many functions and you only have one so be careful,

    http://www.nbc5i.com/encyclopedia/6859643/detail.html

  16. Quote Originally Posted by motiv8er View Post
    I missed this thread the first time around. I am very proud to read it though. Don't laugh, I manage a Hollister Clothing store. I play big, big brother to 75 odd kids. I deal with poor decision making youths all the time. Kids doing what they do, jumping into an unfilled pool.

    It will always be difficult to balance the successful athlete who is driven to research, and the kid who wants quick easy answers. I feel it is our duty to show a better path. Instead of saying DO MORE RESEARCH!!! (Followed by please lay off the caps!) I try to write down the key words. Sometimes we can answer the same question in a sentence, sometimes we can show the right path in a sentence.

    In my youth I would have given anything to have known about a board like AM. We don't provide answers here, we illuminate paths. We show you the door. The answers must come from you in the end.

    This board is full of people who have asked themselves many of the same questions, and searched many of the same questions. And so it is our purpose, to show others- the way it is done.

    The mods do a great, tough job here. Balancing law, ethics, and mass amounts of info. I try to treat everyone here as though I know them. A community that looks out for the most jacked and inspiring, to the hungriest and perspiring. I take pride in using and sharing what I learn here. I'm proud to be a member. End of rant, sob, snot, cough...

    Am I my brother's keeper? Yes I am.
    Great Post! I don't actively participate in boards too much anymore, but when I came back to check this board out I noticed something. I've seen this on other boards as well. It appears to me that a lof the guys are slamming the newbs something serious. Things like, "Do you research!", "Eat to Make Your Gains", "Train 5 Years First!" I don't disagree with the message that is being sent to the Newbs and highschoolers, but the typical method of delivery I've seen is only going to cause these kids to rebel and do it anyway. Especially, when everyone jumps on the bandwagon of name calling and insulting the person.
    I don't like to see newbie posts anymore than anyone else, but cussing the kids out and demanding for their ban isn't sending the right message. Your only telling these people that its ok to be a jerk.
    If you really want to make a difference, then try this instead...
    PM the person or post out in the open and try to develop a relationship with this newb or highschooler. Find out why they want to take steroids in the first place. Is it out of insecurity? Do they want to compete? Do they know all of the rammifications?
    My point is simply maybe its not the message, or the person giving the message, but the delivery of the message that we need to work on.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers. A time when use and mis-use was a very serious concern by many members on the board. A time when statements like; "every kid wanting to get huge will be eating this **** like candy" and was of a serious concern. Our conscienses were very finely tuned to the potential dangers of the use and abuse of these compounds by anyone, and especially young kids just coming into the BB world/sport, with very little to no training and diet experience.

    Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl. Kids who don't know how to eat or train right. Kids who have trained for the first time in their lives now wanting to take steroids.

    What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?

    Please note: I am not anti steroids, nor anti kids (young men), nor anti kids on steroids. I'm sure this may offend a few too many. But surely there are some here who remember "back in the day" when we used conscience and caution when supplying advise.

    I'm sure I'm not alone here.
    OK!!!!

  18. I'm new to this website but not to working out or dieting. I posted about SustEvol earlier today asking about it...well not about it but the side effects. I thought I did enough research on it but when i did my research the product had just come out so of course it was the "Greatest" thing ever. Needless to say now everyone says to dump it, get rid of it, trash it. Well of course I'm gonna be taken back by this so I decided no to take it today and wont' until I go to the doctors & get a Full Physical. Of course I asked close sources of mine about the product and they praised but also spoke ill of it, but ONLY if it is not taken properly. If you do not follow guidelines when taking foreign supplements such as the pro-hormones or Gear then there will be consiquences. If every precaution is taken then anyone who is taking a strong MT or steroid should be safer than someone who does not know how to take it at the begining and how to end it. So much goes into supplements. Someone might benifit from taking deca and test but someone else's body might not take that cycle as well. Basically after typing all of this what I'm trying to say is ALWAYS DO RESEARCH! Ask questions, make sure you know your body. Make Sure you've reached your "limits" naturally before trying to rush them. Your body will be more ready to take in the foreign supps as oppose to just taking them on your 1st visit to the gym. (Broken record but..) Make sure you have at least 3 years in the gym, at least a few years of dieting as well. Make sure your sources are legit and not your body who knows just as much as you or maybe less. Alright I'm done here because I definitely wrote way too much...BEST OF LUCK TO ALL!!!

  19. This is the whole reason as did a friend of mine(sweetlou32937) after I did due in fact to the ill advice given and the quick temper that override any good done in the forums. For instance if a question is aked about any they feel is unreasonale(on that given day) they might shun you or try and put you down for how wrong you were for thinking this or that. It didnt happen to me but I was witness to this reoccuring problem way to many time! Anyways thanks to all at AM!!

  20. Best way too look at when someone can make a comment or ask a question that some may feel is a waist of time to even answer or get aggrevated is...WE WERE ALL IN THERE SHOES AT 1 POINT IN OUR LIVES. The difference is, is that instead of giving them the Heisman, just point them in the right direction, because either we can help or know someone that can help. So far all I've seen in this whole website is positive feedback for everyone. Some are harsh but with good intentions. Great Site!

  21. Quote Originally Posted by lexxx View Post
    Some are harsh but with good intentions. Great Site!
    Indeed and even those are hard to come by here at AM.com, not turn into bb.com and I think there may be a different story.
  22. Thumbs up


    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers. A time when use and mis-use was a very serious concern by many members on the board. A time when statements like; "every kid wanting to get huge will be eating this **** like candy" and was of a serious concern. Our conscienses were very finely tuned to the potential dangers of the use and abuse of these compounds by anyone, and especially young kids just coming into the BB world/sport, with very little to no training and diet experience.

    Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl. Kids who don't know how to eat or train right. Kids who have trained for the first time in their lives now wanting to take steroids.

    What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?

    Please note: I am not anti steroids, nor anti kids (young men), nor anti kids on steroids. I'm sure this may offend a few too many. But surely there are some here who remember "back in the day" when we used conscience and caution when supplying advise.

    I'm sure I'm not alone here.

    All we can do is just try to educate. If we just hate new kids on the block we will do more harm than good.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by stumbras View Post
    All we can do is just try to educate. If we just hate new kids on the block we will do more harm than good.
    This is the difference between bb.com and am.com

  24. I was reckless (not even that reckless highest I went was 20mg/d) with M1T and I'm pretty sure I'd have a better hairline if I didn't abuse it. I have always been on the safe side regarding gear and pct protocal, but I have had my side effects from different things I have done. You can never be too careful with this stuff.

  25. I would like to say that I was one of the stupid kids who grabbed the m1t and popped it like candy. funny thing is that once I discovered the forums and sah all the adverse dangers of it I actually stopped. So these sites talking about the pro's and con's arenlt terrible, if anything they forced me to stop, lean how unbelievably important nutrition and training actually is. An old fart at my gym back in canada who sold the stuff said he wouldnlt sell anymore unless people could prove to him that they could make gains without it
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