Self Fulfilling Prophecies and methyl steroids

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    This thread is three years old. I have been a Mod and now an Admin in that time. It is fair to say that I have slightly less enthusiasm on the matter. I can no longer act as the community conscience. It is my hope that the community will reflect its values for those who enter.

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    It seems there has been a heavy influx of the BB.com types over the past year or so. Granted, we were forewarned by Bobo prior to the onslaught but there is only so much to say. I've been attacked for telling people to research and then post their question. At one level I could not care who gets the "***** Tits" or shrinks their balls to raisins and needs to be on HRT as result. Ethically though, I feel responsible to at least warn or encourage those to seek information prior to starting their "cycles"

    I think the whole "their going to do it anyway so we might as well give them the information" mindset is a copout. I think that you should not be able to start a thread unless you have been active on the board for 3-6 mos. Not saying no posting just no thread starting. These "I am doing an 8 week cycle of PP/Epi/superdrol do I need to do a SERM in post cycle therapy" threads are ridiculous.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    how do you provide an answer to someone, who can easily obtain designers and ph's even still after the ban, about obtaining proper pct? (I'm by no means asking to source, I do fine with that) I'm just saying, why give the information for "damage control" if you can't give ALL the information they need? Because you know a lot of them ask right away, 'well how do i get nolva, clomid,etc..?' I think that's where a lot of the inexperienced dabblers go wrong and just decide on using an OTC standalone for PCT...
    thoughts anyone?
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    in regards to post i just made...
    I made that statement to go along with the advice of 'clean diet, proper training, recovery, reaching genetic potential, growth plates...etc" when attacking the problem of youngsters wanting to be jacked without the knowledge of the damage they can cause themselves.
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    All Newbie bish's please follow THIS CYCLE!

    1. Workout hard - There are many different workout regimes, many that work well. Generally: Strength training is in the 6 rep range / Bodybuilding in the 8-10 rep range. - Rep range warmup: 15 ( sets 1 & 2 ) Working: 10, 8, 6 last three sets add drop sets to failure )

    2. Fast Efficient Workouts = 1hr - This is not hard and fast but studies have shown that Cortisol rises after 1hr

    3. Protein shake immediately after workout and then protein meal with carbs etc within 1hr

    4. Creatine - Mono or CEE you decide. Both before and after workout.

    5. Daily meals - 5 - 6 day ( including shakes ) protein = 1g per pound of body weight. Meal 1 ( breakies ) is shake plus oatmeal or whatever else you want ( apple is good fibre / system crap mover ), Meal 6 is post workout shake with creatine etc and then solid food meal. Carbs tapered down from morning to evening and fats tapered up from morning to evening. Protein is a constant.

    6. Sleep 8 - 10 hrs a night ( very imp for all natural BB'ers )

    7. Supps - Do you note the order in which these are and where supps come??? - a) Multivitamin / B complex b) Whey protein c) creatine e) Test boosters / stacks etc

    Most importantly do you see the order of these things?

    Exercises: Compound movements i.e. two arm two leg exercises.

    1. Squats - Biggest muscle and boosts test like crazy, work em hard and see results big time.

    2. Deadlifts / Chins / Bent over Rows / Pulldowns - 1st attempt either an palm up or palm down chin at the beginning of your back workout, if you can do one, try two, if you can do 15, add weight. Most important for back is to make the mind / muscle connection. Concentrate ( start with low weight and excellent form ) on getting a good contraction and not swinging with the weight. Calm controlled up down with good squeeze of lats at bottom of rep. All about the connection / squeeze

    3. Leg press

    4. Flat Bench Dumbell / Barbell - Always swap it up, it takes more muscle etc to do dumbells ( stabilizing muscles etc ) but switch it up - Start with dips to hit lower chest then move to flat bench / incline.

    5. Core work - Abs / lower back - work the weaker harder.

    This should give you a good idea....Best thing for test.....squats ....good form, warm up well, be careful and grow!

    Once you've made some good gainz on that cycle, we'll talk after you have built a solid 5 year hardcore muscle foundation!

    Much Love,

    Neoborn
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunk826 View Post
    in regards to post i just made...
    I made that statement to go along with the advice of 'clean diet, proper training, recovery, reaching genetic potential, growth plates...etc" when attacking the problem of youngsters wanting to be jacked without the knowledge of the damage they can cause themselves.
    Its a similar argument that happens in all sorts of areas. Does having condoms available as part of an anti-aids initiative encourage teenage sex? Does supplying heroin addicts with clean new needles encourage them to shoot up more?

    In my perspective as an older prick, no it really doesn't encourage it in more than a tiny fraction of the people. For the most part, people who have self destructive personalities will find a way to hurt themselves regardless. And people who don't have enough concern for their health will damage their health. Heck, a Hardee's monster thickburger has 43g of saturated fat, and over 100g of total fat! Anyone who has such little concern for themselves really gets what they get. My dad had 2/3 of one lung removed from cancer, I can't blame the cigarette companies for that.... Who ever believed that breathing in smoke wasn't unhealthy?

    Basically I think you may get a handful out of 100 who irresponsibly do a cycle going ahead and doing it because they see novadex xt or aPCT and think that is all they need. The 98 of the irresponsible ones would do it regardless if the label on the bottle of superdrol said "this will make your balls shrink to raisin size, but the extras in 300 used it".

    I'm a believer that the current group of designers shouldnt' be able to be sold solo, without a reasonable PCT with them. But the only way to "force" that would be to get the government involved, and then the real answer is that the designers are unsafe and so they'd get banned.

    Whats really funny tho in an odd sort of way is that it is evolution at work. Someone not smart enough to figure out what they are putting into their body before they take it may end up being unable to breed later. Go Darwin!

    There does seem to be a small light at the end of the tunnel tho. There are a number of promising OTC PCT products out there now based around resveratrol in part that should actually work. I'm doing an epistane / revolt (same as max-lmg or x-mass) cycle in late october/early november, and I've decided to use a non-serm PCT. I'm going with Dermacrine Sustain from Primoridal Performance solo for PCT. I'm doing bloodwork before cycle, and after PCT so we'll all be able to see some real world results. I'll have nolva on hand in case it all goes sour mind you . But i'm pretty confident.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
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    I'm a believer that the current group of designers shouldnt' be able to be sold solo, without a reasonable post cycle therapy with them. But the only way to "force" that would be to get the government involved, and then the real answer is that the designers are unsafe and so they'd get banned.
    This definitely would help address a lot of grief with respect to abuse. But would it actually lead to a more educated and aware user?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xarjun View Post
    This definitely would help address a lot of grief with respect to abuse. But would it actually lead to a more educated and aware user?
    Nope. but if its sold over the counter, it ought to not leave your body parts in a non-usable state afterwards. No other "nutritional" products on the market do that, it wouldn't be tolerated. So doing what we can to at least minimize the permanent or long term damage that gets done would help

    I'm an almost 40 year old professional with a house and family and it was hard for me to convince myself not to do a cycle yet. I have all the materials, was going to do a cycle for my 40th birthday. But I'm not ready yet, it really would be a waste, I can make almost steroidal gains just by taking in 4000cal a day
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
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    It is true...sadly, the overriding care and concern have vanished. I went into the supp store near me a while ago for the first time in a year or so (cause I shop here now ), and the guy working there proudly presented the supp which contains ALL THREE (Halodrol, Superdrol, and Pheraplex) together.
    I've been out of the loop for a while, so I didn't see the ultimate recent (year and a half, say) playing out of the supp game. I was astonished, recalling the logs from 2002-5 which showed the potential HDL/LDL and liver toxicity issues, not to mention potential other shutdown factors or damage for youngsters, from the use of single methylated prosteroids/hormones.
    So now we can stack all of 'em in one convenient, easy-to-swallow pill! Oh, and just take a little milk thistle and your liver will be fine!?...Yikes.....

    Well, it is what it is, I guess. Hopefully a group of knowledgable individuals can help by dropping important facts into these discussions and offering a voice of rasonable authority. I certainly won't preach, but I am very concerned about the health and longevity of those involved in bodybuilding, and especially those here at AM.
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    You have to also remember that P.C.T is a fairly recent idea. In the old days they just gradually went down in dose. The reason for PCT is to get your natural test production started again. Even if you don't use a P.C.T product your test production will return to normal, it will just take a little bit longer. Whether you use PCT or not though there is a chance there will still be some permanent damage to your endocrine system, you will not produce as much testorone naturally as before you ever started using anabolics.....Another thing is the attitude of people not saying "no" to anabolics, but saying wait until you are 21. Why not just direct people not to use steriods at all, instead of telling them it is ok but they have to wait till their 21st birthday. Also why 21?. People can't really make clear decisions for themselves until after 25 years of age, there was a recent study on this. The brains "decision making center" isn't fully developed until 25 years.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/scien...in_10-13.html#

    Another thing I hate seeing is post like "Get you diet and training in order first, then consider steroids". If their diet and training is already worked out they should have no need for steroids and should be gaining muscle without them. Steroids are going to make a difference whether or not their diet is in order. They should have a good diet and training program REGARDLESS!. Also with support supplements, the more is better attitude is self-destructive. I really don't think that trying to stop the side effects of one pill with another is helpful. Think about it, the liver processes everything you put in your mouth, all food. It works especially hard at digesting protein and fat, with the high protein intake that people use it just has to work harder. The more protein you eat, the harder it works. Its main function is to convert glucose to glycogen. It has so many other functions though... The more pills you take the harder it works. So if you are taking a methyl steroid, and then taking support supplements its just working that much harder because it has to process that much more. It has so many functions and you only have one so be careful,

    http://www.nbc5i.com/encyclopedia/6859643/detail.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by motiv8er View Post
    I missed this thread the first time around. I am very proud to read it though. Don't laugh, I manage a Hollister Clothing store. I play big, big brother to 75 odd kids. I deal with poor decision making youths all the time. Kids doing what they do, jumping into an unfilled pool.

    It will always be difficult to balance the successful athlete who is driven to research, and the kid who wants quick easy answers. I feel it is our duty to show a better path. Instead of saying DO MORE RESEARCH!!! (Followed by please lay off the caps!) I try to write down the key words. Sometimes we can answer the same question in a sentence, sometimes we can show the right path in a sentence.

    In my youth I would have given anything to have known about a board like AM. We don't provide answers here, we illuminate paths. We show you the door. The answers must come from you in the end.

    This board is full of people who have asked themselves many of the same questions, and searched many of the same questions. And so it is our purpose, to show others- the way it is done.

    The mods do a great, tough job here. Balancing law, ethics, and mass amounts of info. I try to treat everyone here as though I know them. A community that looks out for the most jacked and inspiring, to the hungriest and perspiring. I take pride in using and sharing what I learn here. I'm proud to be a member. End of rant, sob, snot, cough...

    Am I my brother's keeper? Yes I am.
    Great Post! I don't actively participate in boards too much anymore, but when I came back to check this board out I noticed something. I've seen this on other boards as well. It appears to me that a lof the guys are slamming the newbs something serious. Things like, "Do you research!", "Eat to Make Your Gains", "Train 5 Years First!" I don't disagree with the message that is being sent to the Newbs and highschoolers, but the typical method of delivery I've seen is only going to cause these kids to rebel and do it anyway. Especially, when everyone jumps on the bandwagon of name calling and insulting the person.
    I don't like to see newbie posts anymore than anyone else, but cussing the kids out and demanding for their ban isn't sending the right message. Your only telling these people that its ok to be a jerk.
    If you really want to make a difference, then try this instead...
    PM the person or post out in the open and try to develop a relationship with this newb or highschooler. Find out why they want to take steroids in the first place. Is it out of insecurity? Do they want to compete? Do they know all of the rammifications?
    My point is simply maybe its not the message, or the person giving the message, but the delivery of the message that we need to work on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers. A time when use and mis-use was a very serious concern by many members on the board. A time when statements like; "every kid wanting to get huge will be eating this **** like candy" and was of a serious concern. Our conscienses were very finely tuned to the potential dangers of the use and abuse of these compounds by anyone, and especially young kids just coming into the BB world/sport, with very little to no training and diet experience.

    Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl. Kids who don't know how to eat or train right. Kids who have trained for the first time in their lives now wanting to take steroids.

    What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?

    Please note: I am not anti steroids, nor anti kids (young men), nor anti kids on steroids. I'm sure this may offend a few too many. But surely there are some here who remember "back in the day" when we used conscience and caution when supplying advise.

    I'm sure I'm not alone here.
    OK!!!!
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    I'm new to this website but not to working out or dieting. I posted about SustEvol earlier today asking about it...well not about it but the side effects. I thought I did enough research on it but when i did my research the product had just come out so of course it was the "Greatest" thing ever. Needless to say now everyone says to dump it, get rid of it, trash it. Well of course I'm gonna be taken back by this so I decided no to take it today and wont' until I go to the doctors & get a Full Physical. Of course I asked close sources of mine about the product and they praised but also spoke ill of it, but ONLY if it is not taken properly. If you do not follow guidelines when taking foreign supplements such as the pro-hormones or Gear then there will be consiquences. If every precaution is taken then anyone who is taking a strong MT or steroid should be safer than someone who does not know how to take it at the begining and how to end it. So much goes into supplements. Someone might benifit from taking deca and test but someone else's body might not take that cycle as well. Basically after typing all of this what I'm trying to say is ALWAYS DO RESEARCH! Ask questions, make sure you know your body. Make Sure you've reached your "limits" naturally before trying to rush them. Your body will be more ready to take in the foreign supps as oppose to just taking them on your 1st visit to the gym. (Broken record but..) Make sure you have at least 3 years in the gym, at least a few years of dieting as well. Make sure your sources are legit and not your body who knows just as much as you or maybe less. Alright I'm done here because I definitely wrote way too much...BEST OF LUCK TO ALL!!!
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    This is the whole reason as did a friend of mine(sweetlou32937) after I did due in fact to the ill advice given and the quick temper that override any good done in the forums. For instance if a question is aked about any they feel is unreasonale(on that given day) they might shun you or try and put you down for how wrong you were for thinking this or that. It didnt happen to me but I was witness to this reoccuring problem way to many time! Anyways thanks to all at AM!!
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    Best way too look at when someone can make a comment or ask a question that some may feel is a waist of time to even answer or get aggrevated is...WE WERE ALL IN THERE SHOES AT 1 POINT IN OUR LIVES. The difference is, is that instead of giving them the Heisman, just point them in the right direction, because either we can help or know someone that can help. So far all I've seen in this whole website is positive feedback for everyone. Some are harsh but with good intentions. Great Site!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexxx View Post
    Some are harsh but with good intentions. Great Site!
    Indeed and even those are hard to come by here at AM.com, not turn into bb.com and I think there may be a different story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers. A time when use and mis-use was a very serious concern by many members on the board. A time when statements like; "every kid wanting to get huge will be eating this **** like candy" and was of a serious concern. Our conscienses were very finely tuned to the potential dangers of the use and abuse of these compounds by anyone, and especially young kids just coming into the BB world/sport, with very little to no training and diet experience.

    Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl. Kids who don't know how to eat or train right. Kids who have trained for the first time in their lives now wanting to take steroids.

    What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?

    Please note: I am not anti steroids, nor anti kids (young men), nor anti kids on steroids. I'm sure this may offend a few too many. But surely there are some here who remember "back in the day" when we used conscience and caution when supplying advise.

    I'm sure I'm not alone here.

    All we can do is just try to educate. If we just hate new kids on the block we will do more harm than good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumbras View Post
    All we can do is just try to educate. If we just hate new kids on the block we will do more harm than good.
    This is the difference between bb.com and am.com
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    I was reckless (not even that reckless highest I went was 20mg/d) with M1T and I'm pretty sure I'd have a better hairline if I didn't abuse it. I have always been on the safe side regarding gear and pct protocal, but I have had my side effects from different things I have done. You can never be too careful with this stuff.
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    I would like to say that I was one of the stupid kids who grabbed the m1t and popped it like candy. funny thing is that once I discovered the forums and sah all the adverse dangers of it I actually stopped. So these sites talking about the pro's and con's arenlt terrible, if anything they forced me to stop, lean how unbelievably important nutrition and training actually is. An old fart at my gym back in canada who sold the stuff said he wouldnlt sell anymore unless people could prove to him that they could make gains without it
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    Too bad most of the side effects are most likely not going to show up until years down the road. If you think you are safe because you took something years ago, and you seemed to be fine for years, you may be in for a surprise. I just had to go to the doctor 2 days after finishing an H-Drol cycle. I'm not going into details but it's serious. Do I think it caused my problem directly, probably not possible. Do I think it exacerbated something I already had but did not know, yes, I think there is a strong chance of that. Needless to say, maybe this was a wakeup call, I will never touch another PH as long as a live. In fact, I'm not touching anything else once I finish my very light PCT. Good luck to you, if I could go back, I'd never have touched this stuff. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way. Keep thinking it won't happen to you.........like I did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoidGracie View Post
    Too bad most of the side effects are most likely not going to show up until years down the road. If you think you are safe because you took something years ago, and you seemed to be fine for years, you may be in for a surprise. I just had to go to the doctor 2 days after finishing an H-Drol cycle. I'm not going into details but it's serious. Do I think it caused my problem directly, probably not possible. Do I think it exacerbated something I already had but did not know, yes, I think there is a strong chance of that. Needless to say, maybe this was a wakeup call, I will never touch another PH as long as a live. In fact, I'm not touching anything else once I finish my very light PCT. Good luck to you, if I could go back, I'd never have touched this stuff. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way. Keep thinking it won't happen to you.........like I did.
    Great point!
    A) You will not have any idea what long-term effects of these things may have until much later in life.

    B) When you are young (when I was young) I could not see beyond the moment-- I want to do what I want to do and the negative stuff "won't happen to me."

    The key is to educate yourself, dialogue, study others' experiences and approach with caution. Thankfully M1T is pretty much a thing of the past. Well, at least in terms of what's currently available and much better. I do still see M1T around available from some places, so somebody still must be using it!
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    M1T is very much still alive in canada. We don't have all the pro-hormone products and m1t is still pushed my the smaller supp company on kids who want somehting and don;t want to inject.
  24. RoidGracie
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    I don't think M1T and Superdrol are all that people should be concerned with. I don't really think any of these compounds are safe, and not just the PH/PS's.
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    Don't worry guys the .Gov is going to ban everything to save the children. You can all stop this whiney thread now

    Take action, don't whine.
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    I'm anti kids on steroids.
    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers. A time when use and mis-use was a very serious concern by many members on the board. A time when statements like; "every kid wanting to get huge will be eating this **** like candy" and was of a serious concern. Our conscienses were very finely tuned to the potential dangers of the use and abuse of these compounds by anyone, and especially young kids just coming into the BB world/sport, with very little to no training and diet experience.

    Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl. Kids who don't know how to eat or train right. Kids who have trained for the first time in their lives now wanting to take steroids.

    What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?

    Please note: I am not anti steroids, nor anti kids (young men), nor anti kids on steroids. I'm sure this may offend a few too many. But surely there are some here who remember "back in the day" when we used conscience and caution when supplying advise.

    I'm sure I'm not alone here.
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    im 20 haha and yeh i have taken M1T ages ago tho, i thought it gave me gynecomastia but i have seen 4 maybe 5 different doc's and they all tell me its in my head. i have even had blood work done checking my hormones and there all in range. only thing that was **** bout M1T was the stretch marks it gave me!! i advise all my friends to stay away from it. personally i prefer stacking rebound xt with creatine. i gained bout a stone on that ! rebound xt at 3 caps a day just under 2 months and CEE trust me that does the trick! peace.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoidGracie View Post
    Too bad most of the side effects are most likely not going to show up until years down the road. If you think you are safe because you took something years ago, and you seemed to be fine for years, you may be in for a surprise. I just had to go to the doctor 2 days after finishing an H-Drol cycle. I'm not going into details but it's serious. Do I think it caused my problem directly, probably not possible. Do I think it exacerbated something I already had but did not know, yes, I think there is a strong chance of that. Needless to say, maybe this was a wakeup call, I will never touch another PH as long as a live. In fact, I'm not touching anything else once I finish my very light PCT. Good luck to you, if I could go back, I'd never have touched this stuff. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way. Keep thinking it won't happen to you.........like I did.

    Do you have any research, scientific studies that can back that claim up? How do you know problems wont arise until years down the road? It seems like just a guess to me. I did andro when it first came out in the late 90's, and haven't had any problems. That was 10 years ago.

    Whatever problem your doc discovered was probably due to genetics, or something else. I doubt PH's had anything to do with it. What did your doctor say about it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heat Miser View Post
    I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers. A time when use and mis-use was a very serious concern by many members on the board. A time when statements like; "every kid wanting to get huge will be eating this **** like candy" and was of a serious concern. Our conscienses were very finely tuned to the potential dangers of the use and abuse of these compounds by anyone, and especially young kids just coming into the BB world/sport, with very little to no training and diet experience.

    Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl. Kids who don't know how to eat or train right. Kids who have trained for the first time in their lives now wanting to take steroids.

    What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?

    Please note: I am not anti steroids, nor anti kids (young men), nor anti kids on steroids. I'm sure this may offend a few too many. But surely there are some here who remember "back in the day" when we used conscience and caution when supplying advise.

    I'm sure I'm not alone here.
    I disagree. I still see tons of posts where the first 37 answers to a new kid's question are, "research", and "take your time and learn before you jump in".
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironlunch View Post
    Do you have any research, scientific studies that can back that claim up? How do you know problems wont arise until years down the road? It seems like just a guess to me. I did andro when it first came out in the late 90's, and haven't had any problems. That was 10 years ago.

    Whatever problem your doc discovered was probably due to genetics, or something else. I doubt PH's had anything to do with it. What did your doctor say about it?
    Yep. When I was 19 and there were no boards like AM, I actually used andro to taper off a 6 week sustanon cycle. Imagine my surprise when I gained almost as much coming off as I did while on.

    I consider my self lucky, now knowing what I know. But the fact remains, I'm fine.
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    I am thinking of trying cellucor p6 black for my very 1st prohoromone cycle. Anyone know anything about this stuff. Steroids would be cheaper I have no doubt. I am bumping 30 and feel a good cycle of such product will induce growth I wan. 20 lbs of mass for now.
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    ya......................
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I am not in disagreement with any of these replies.

    But in regard to them I would like to add this. It is always good to give sound advise when it is asked for. But in some cases it is showing someone how to do the wrong thing the right way. But I will not go into what is right or wrong and level of experience for PH/PS use. But there should be some sort of prerequisite of knowledge or level of understanding demonstrated by the inquirer before such advise is delivered.

    I will say that I think encouraging someone to search for themselves is the better way to go. For instance; "Hey bro, search around some on the board using the "search function". Use the key words "PCT, NOLVA, 6-OXO". Read up a bunch on this stuff". I'm not going to ramble on using examples.

    "We can feed them fish, or teach them to be fishermen"
    i do like to take it one step further sometimes and actually pull up a couple threads to have them read, just the ones i found the most useful information on to get them started. replies that always annoy me to read are "use search", with no extra help. the poster may actually be very lazy, or they may just not know exactly what to search for- and amongst all the golden threads around here its good to help them avoid those that are not so good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheUsual View Post
    More in line with this discussion, has anyone else noticed the vast difference between post and thread counts of the PH and Anabolics Forum Sections vs. the Diet & Nutrition and Training sections? That right there sums up the problem I think. I am starting to follow the school of thought of "maybe it's a good thing the gov't is outlawing PH's".
    lol, outlaw PH and only outlaws will have PHs
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    where's the icon where i bang my face into a wall for helping revive an *OLD* post
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuecker View Post
    lol, outlaw PH and only outlaws will have PHs
    I think 80% of the threads in Anabolics are people with 1-20 post count. Only like 5-8 of em I have seen like that in the last 12 months were from intelligent people who knew their crap, but wanted to openly discuss something or expand their knowledge.
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    Yeah it is crazy. A co-worker of mine, her 14 year old brother got his hand on some havoc, figuring it was legal and all that. I explained to him that it was a STEROID and that he would get gyno if he took it and fcuk up his endocrine system for life. I bought the bottle off him, told him I could unload it at my gym, just to make sure he didn't take any. Can you belive it... 14 yrs. old.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    Yeah it is crazy. A co-worker of mine, her 14 year old brother got his hand on some havoc, figuring it was legal and all that. I explained to him that it was a STEROID and that he would get gyno if he took it and fcuk up his endocrine system for life. I bought the bottle off him, told him I could unload it at my gym, just to make sure he didn't take any. Can you belive it... 14 yrs. old.
    Why the heck does someone 14 need ANY supplement other than some beef n chicken! Heck... I wieghtlifted on curly fries, mozzarella sticks, and cheeseburgers back then. And it worked lol!

    EDIT: DAAAANNNNGGGG man now I am super craving some mozzarella sticks >.< oh the yummyness!
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    Personally i think if your under 25 you shouldnt even look at PH. The Risk reward ratio isnt worth it. 18-24 I could work out after work 9pm till midnight go out party! get up at 6am work an eat a crap diet an still makes gains an be ripped! (youth) today If i have one Drinkng night my workouts suck for a day or 2! If your under 25 exhaust all your other resources first, Perfect diet, Rest, solid workouts, Then if meeded change up gears! new workout new diet etc. etc. If u hit a wall then consider PH. This Body modification is a marathon not a sprint! Long term health outways short term gains.\
    My 2cents
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    I wish I knew more about them when first started taking them 2000
  

  
 

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