Epi cycle. New to all of this please help with questions!
- 01-23-2012, 04:27 PM
Epi cycle. New to all of this please help with questions!
Ok, so I have been working out for some time now and I was hoping to get started on my first cycle to kick my muscle building into gear. My first supplement I bought to take (my cousin has done 3 cycles with great gains) was Trimethyl extreme. Now, after researching that I kind of wanted to steer clear of it for a first cycle. It is on a shelf collecting dust for now. I then did research and found that epistane was a good ph, good gains-mild to no sides, etc. So I bought EPG Phenlyvar. Now my question is mainly I hear thistle is bad to take during a cycle because it hinders gains, and that prunella vulgaris was a better choice. I cant find prunella, unless anyone knows where I can find some. so will thistle do for this cycle. I am going to be dosing at 30mg epi a day for 4weeks, taking 500mg thistle cap with each epi cap. Now I also have done research and have heard epi can cause severe headaches, I was wondering if anyone has had any other sides?. Is there anything in particular anyone has found that causes these headaches? IE improper dosing, etc.
Thanks and I really appreciate any and all input. Good and bad, I am just new to all this and looking for some advice.
- 01-23-2012, 05:44 PM
I haven't ran epi, so I can't comment on sides/dosing, but there are a bunch of logs around if you look.
How old are you? What is your training like? Is your diet in check? What do you have planned for PCT?
ManBeast-Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
-Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
*I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
01-23-2012, 05:57 PM
I love epi for cutting but if u are worried about milk thistle hindering gains, take milk thistle a few hours before or after your epi. I notice epi works better longer then a 4 week cycle. I would grab 2 bottles of epi and dose them at
Epi week 1-6. 30/30/30/30/45/45
I would stick with 30 till/unless gains starts to stall then bump it to 45. Expect dry joints at 45mg
"for me" I dose epi at 30/30/40/40/50/50.
01-23-2012, 06:04 PM
I'm 23, i do isolation weight training and some cardio. Diet is somewhat in check. Protien all day and carbs before workouts for energy. Pct i may run novladex, the store i buy from is cutting edge nutrition in castleton indiana. Bob the owner suggested phenylar, and he has a pct lined up for me. He only carries epg products because their legit he says. He is an x bodybuilder. He says it should be a good first cycle but i just wanted extra input before i start on epi, and liver.supportsOriginally Posted by ManBeast
01-23-2012, 06:08 PM
What kind of gains did you see during your first cycle dan? Are there any sides I should look out for? I have been told headaches by some if you don't dose properly. What did you use for a pct? I am looking to cut and pack on muscle have you cut down a whole lot while on epi bf wiseOriginally Posted by dannyn2007
01-23-2012, 06:09 PM
You should probably focus more on compound movements and see how u gain before cycling epi. Not saying isolations are bad but focus more on bench, presses, dips, squats, deadlifts, rows, pullups, etc... Then do some isolations here and there.
01-23-2012, 06:14 PM
I will get all that with what I am doing now though. Back day ill get in rows and deadlifts. Bench ill get in on chest day. I just heard isolation was best for gaining muscle because it. Allows more time for recovery. Usuallu I do back one day. Chest one. Bicep tricep same day. Shoulders one day. Legs one. EtcOriginally Posted by dannyn2007
01-23-2012, 06:22 PM
I gain around 6 pounds on epi while reducing 1-2% of bf. Diet was about 500 calories above maintenance. Diet will determine your gains. Epi for me was mild, no headaches. Just dried me out pretty well and gave me dry joints. My strenght went up but noting crazy like superdrol. If I remember correctly my epi cycle was
Erase 2 weeks after beginning of clomid
Cycle support etc...
I tried nolva for pct before but I like clomid better for personal reasons.
01-23-2012, 06:25 PM
Sounds like a good routine. How's your diet? Forgot to mention, I'm very prone to getting acne so I start seeing acne around week 3. My cousins who cycle epi had zero acne. So sides for me was acne and dry joints.
01-23-2012, 06:34 PM
What kind of cycle support did u take? And what's your definition of dry joints like popping aching?Originally Posted by dannyn2007
01-23-2012, 06:36 PM
I'm kind of prone to acne as well on shoulders. My diet needs better control but I do get a lot of protein and carbs. I steer clear of sugar caffeine etc junk food basicallyOriginally Posted by dannyn2007
01-23-2012, 07:14 PM
Cycle supports stuff like liver care, hawthorne berry, fish oil, etc... Dry joints for me means when I'm doing squats, I can feel my joint rubbing together and it hurts. Even tho you think u are eating lots of carbs and protein, keep track of them! Make sure you get enough protein and carbs I'n. I eat around 300g protein, 350g of carbs, 80-100g of fat but that works best for me.
01-23-2012, 09:46 PM
Epi definitely can cause the dry joints... That's one of the major sides associated with it... You need your fish oil and your joint support... You can run N2Guard for your supports and you will be all good... That will cover you all the way around... I would highly recommend eating 2 grams of protein per pound you weigh... everyone has their opinions on SERMS... to be honest I prefer Torem over them all... you will be fine with any of them but torem has the least amount of sides...
01-23-2012, 10:49 PM
Ok theres the serm word again I have seen it all over is that along the same line as a pct or is a serm not something you can get over the counter? I know newbie question but my cousin who is in the ph world and is on his fourth cycle only takes a pct. He had never heard the word serm till I asked him about it and he didn't know what it wasOriginally Posted by dylangemelli
01-23-2012, 11:04 PM
01-24-2012, 12:03 AM
i ran epi for 6 weeks at 30/40/40/50/50/50 and during my pct just ran nolva 20/20/10/10 with daa and erase and i had veryyyyyy low sides almost nothing
01-24-2012, 12:21 AM
To your question about headaches...
Headaches are usually from either dehydration or raised blood pressure. Drinking lots and lots of water will help with both. Good support supps like celery seed extract, hawthorn berry etc or an all in one cycle support like AI Sports will help with that also. Try not to take pain killers etc while on cycle cause they can be hepatoxic and you'll already be taxing the liver.
If you have milk thistle take it and protect your liver. Sure some believe it can hinder gains but things like epi are strong enough and you won't see any noticeable hindrance. Liver is more important.
ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
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01-24-2012, 01:34 AM
01-24-2012, 11:57 AM
Dylan and I had a talk apparently I just had the pcts and serms mixed up. My cousin who has done four cycles of tri methyl had no idea what a serm is. He just takes a pct. Earlier on in this post I said I was leaning towards nolvadex I think I called it a pct but it is a serm. And I have been researching for months. Just sometimes questions are left unanswered and information is overlooked.. and wth is wrong with my training??? You train how you want ill train how I want. Everyone reacts different to routines just like phs I found a routine I like that gives me results I want and I'm sticking to it.Originally Posted by Roniboney
01-24-2012, 12:09 PM
Oh just one more thing what exactly am I supposed to research? Obviously my research steered me clear of tri methyl and turned me onto epi. Not to mention I found the_at thistle can hinder gains. I am finding out about side effects as I mentioned headaches earlier. I have a serm picked and found how to dose it I have my epi and thistle and cycle supports like hawthorn berry and fish oil etc. I workout hard.. so what else do I need to research bub? Because there areOriginally Posted by Roniboney
15 year olds out there that take this **** with zero research of effects or knowledge of serms pcts or anything and we all know it. Kids can get their hands on anything. So I would say I am better off than most. Not tryin to be a d bag just sayin I bought it to take it not to wait six more months of staring in a computer screen to then take it. And I posted in this forum to gain knowledge and learn. Someone telling me to put down the prohormones! Doesn teach me a thing. So thanks for NOT helping me.
01-24-2012, 12:17 PM
Idk a whole bunch about prohormones but if its really mild yu should be able to get away with otc pct.. Its def not recommend..if the stuff is gnna shut you down you definitely wanna get a real serm to get yur nuts bac online. 23 is still a little bit young for prohormones also..google steroid affects on underdeveloped endocrine system
01-24-2012, 03:39 PM
Woah if your this hormonal off hormones then I shudder to think what your like on them.
Bro your posts were a babble of nonsense before you replied in thesus form, to me so is that my fault that you mixed your phrases up?No.So why am I taking the flak.Your previous posts painted the picture that you were uneducated on the subject of taking hormones and a proper PCT protocol ect....I was not hating I was try to help and I have as you have now clearly stated that you have reasearched your cycle and are ready.
The training post I made was wrong.I'll admit that.Each to his own.
I will point out that you will need a solid diet on this cycle not just kinda in check as you stated.
I will end on this note.Its a forum on the internet,people cannot automatically understand what you think you mean so take my post with a grain of salt and calm down.
Good luck in your cycle
01-24-2012, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by Roniboney
Yea my bad man, i just woke up andsaw that post and i do appreciate the info, but it seems a lot of people that ask questions dont get.answers other than put them down, or.they are bad for you i waslooking for real solid advice. Thats why i turned to the forum. I didnt mean to get all pissy just.woke up on wrong side of the bed. I do.need.to work on my diet a little i try to eat lots of chicken and rice and protien, along with veggies.but like you stated bro its hard.to enterperate what people are.getting at sometimes on the net and text. But my cousin who i seeked guidance through because he has done four cycles obviously doesnt know what he is.doing. Im glad that there are places out there like am.com to help.the newbies. Cuz ill admit it.im new to all this, just.looking to pack on some muscle
01-25-2012, 01:29 AM
No bother man.
I will suggest a way to get kcal in.Use Milk and lots of it.Or make your own gainer shake.
This is my standard gainer shake
2.5 scoops whey
1 cup oatmeal
2 cups no fat milk
PB/Almond Butter 3 TBSP
Honey 2 TBSP
When I need to add kcal to my diet I start adding more oats to the shake.It works and its very cost effective and fairly tasty
Apart from that if you have troubleeating lots of kcal then higher fat foods will be your friend but as a rule of thumb only around 25%-35% of your intake should contain saturated fats.Ground beef,hamburger patties ect....will help get the kcal in there,
01-25-2012, 11:43 AM
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