Too Much AI = Ouch!

[supersoldier]

I've been using Letro, about 1mg/day (even though I tell people not to use that much all the time :frustrate ) for the last 6 days or so. This was to counteract my ridiculously high estradiol level associated with use of 2100mg/week 4AD-cyp.

On the bright side of things, I'm a lot leaner than I thought. It gets to a point where you can only tell yourself "Oh, it's only bloat" for so long, and you start thinking your getting fat. It's amazing how much water an aromatizable steroid can and will make you hold water.

Bad sides: Acne is getting worse. I've heard that estrogen is good for the skin. Training is painful. Almost to the point where I feel that the muscles I'm training that day are injured. It actually feels like somethings gonna rip in there quite often. Strength isn't down, but didn't go up considerably like it did the past few weeks.

The moral of the story: Only take enough AI to lower estrogen to a normal level, don't take enough to where you have no estrogen at all. I've never used Arimidex, but with Letro do not go above 1mg EOD. For fear of injury, bad skin, and shitty workouts.

Still learning the hard way...

SS

 

[Skye]

Unless your your just bloated out of all perportion letro is too strong. I learned that the hard way on my second cycle. dried me out something terriable. I like proviron now for that reason, not nearly as strong as letro or even ldex 50 mg a day will still keep me from holding water on dbol. Ldex is not as bad as letro but still stronger then I like. (I don't need much though). good luck bro

 

[supersoldier]

Unless your your just bloated out of all perportion letro is too strong. I learned that the hard way on my second cycle. dried me out something terriable. I like proviron now for that reason, not nearly as strong as letro or even ldex 50 mg a day will still keep me from holding water on dbol. Ldex is not as bad as letro but still stronger then I like. (I don't need much though). good luck bro

Yeah, too bad research sites don't sell proviron! I am a big fan of M5AA to hold off water. The strength and aggression aren't too bad of "sides" as well. Only reason I started using the Letro is that I had it laying around, and M5AA gives me killer acne. But I guess if the Letro is making my skin worse, I may as well bust out the M5AA. Time to be angry again !!!

 

[Skye]

I would try ldex instead then. .25mg ed is a lot easier on you then the letro is. Still I'm not sure that letro has a minimum dose. maybe try just a very small amount of the letro? .25mg is a tenth of the standerd dosage.

 

[supersoldier]

I would try ldex instead then. .25mg ed is a lot easier on you then the letro is. Still I'm not sure that letro has a minimum dose. maybe try just a very small amount of the letro? .25mg is a tenth of the standerd dosage.

I got the letro for free awhile back from Lion, for doing all my PCT labs with his Nolva. I'm gonna cut back to .5mg/day on the letro and see how it goes, for now. Or just add the M5AA (or Proviron ) and drop the AI all together.

 

[bioman]

SS- your pituatary gland is going to fall off if you start M5AA. lol

How the recovery going? I'm back up to speed, mostly, after the sledge test/M1T-athon. Libido is still kinda low though. I'm thinking low LH as I feel like I'm recovering well from WOs.

 

[jweave23]

I have used as low as .5mg EOD of letro on previous cycles and it worked fine. I agree, there is no reason to eliminate estradiol, just reduce it I don't use AI's anymore, I haven't found the need to. I will ask this because I've seen your diet posts SS :hammer: :rofl:

1. is your diet really in check?
2. are you doing cardio?

Maybe I'm crazy, but with those two things I have successfully eliminated any major "bloat" I used to get. Other than that I'd say lower the letro bigtime or get arimidex.

 

[jweave23]

EDIT: are you on or off cycle?

 

[Greenguy]

I've been using Letro, about 1mg/day (even though I tell people not to use that much all the time :frustrate ) for the last 6 days or so. This was to counteract my ridiculously high estradiol level associated with use of 2100mg/week 4AD-cyp.

On the bright side of things, I'm a lot leaner than I thought. It gets to a point where you can only tell yourself "Oh, it's only bloat" for so long, and you start thinking your getting fat. It's amazing how much water an aromatizable steroid can and will make you hold water.

Bad sides: Acne is getting worse. I've heard that estrogen is good for the skin. Training is painful. Almost to the point where I feel that the muscles I'm training that day are injured. It actually feels like somethings gonna rip in there quite often. Strength isn't down, but didn't go up considerably like it did the past few weeks.

The moral of the story: Only take enough AI to lower estrogen to a normal level, don't take enough to where you have no estrogen at all. I've never used Arimidex, but with Letro do not go above 1mg EOD. For fear of injury, bad skin, and shitty workouts.

Still learning the hard way...

SS

I'm PCTing on Nolva and Transdermal 6-oxo, 7-oxo-dhea and my joints are killing me.

I prefer not to inhibit estrogen on cycle since I have no gyno problems and no fear of bloat. It's only water which will disappear post-cycle. I think I have a natural genetic lack of estrogen for whatever reason. I seem to produce more DHT that estrogen (ectomorph, hairy, male pattern baldness...). The estrogenic hormones give me the best bulking results.

 

[cr4ytonic]

EDIT: are you on or off cycle?

Is SuperSoldier EVER off?

 

[BryanM]

you can elliminate this by using 10mg of nolva during cycle also which is also advised to help with your lipid profile.

Now I have gyno and havent cycled since I got it last cycle ive been advised to use 1.25mg ed and 10-20mg of nolva

Do you think I should push it back to 1.25mg eod to stop the excess dryness or will the nolva take care of it?

 

[bioman]

Nolva is not an AI, it won't further reduce estrogens. It's role is to block the effects of estrogens on specific tissues..most notably on breast tissue/nipples. Nolva can actually raise estrone levels.

 

[BryanM]

exactly my point as to have weak synthetic estro in there that will block real estro from breast site will maintaining joint lubrication and keeping lipid profile in check

Ive seen guys still get gyno with letro because the remaining estro floating is still able to bind to receptors this is unusually rare but I already have gyno soooooo...

 

[supersoldier]

I1. is your diet really in check?
2. are you doing cardio?

1. Diet is and has been in check since you and Bobo made fun of me, you mean, mean mods :hammer: ! Except for the 2 weeks vacation/partying/binge drinking/cheese steak eating I did back in the end of July-beginning of August :frustrate .

I have been eating a lot of cottage cheese lately, and other high sodium foods. So that could have a big role. But since starting the letro, I really haven't altered my diet and the abs have reappeared! Before starting the letro, I seriously looked like I had a big roll of fat hiding my abs, to the point where I really thought I gained all that fat in a little bit of time, despite being on 4AD-cyp and a lot of M1T. :think:

2. I rarely do cardio. If and when I do cardio, it's the first couple days to 2 weeks into a clen or Triac cycle, then I give up.

As for your other question, cr4ytonic answered it for you! Soon enough though, soon enough...

 

[bioman]

exactly my point as to have weak synthetic estro in there that will block real estro from breast site will maintaining joint lubrication and keeping lipid profile in check

Ive seen guys still get gyno with letro because the remaining estro floating is still able to bind to receptors this is unusually rare but I already have gyno soooooo...

Ok, I get you now. Just misunderstood your post. yeah the combo is good insurance I think.

I was running 1.0 mg of letro eod and 10 mg of Nolva ed on my last sledge test/M1T cycle to fight back the bloat and keep nip puffines in check. Didn't have any joint issues at those dosages. I wish I could have checked my lipid values, the M1T and an letro is probably a scarey combination. Cardio-wise i did not feel so great..shortness of breath et cetera.

 

[bigpetefox]

Letorzole is potent because it can deactivate aromatase in the adipose tissues as well, arimidex can't.. You should use letro on an EOD schedule, ED will show joint pain (dryness), erectile dysfunction, yadda-yadda..

I've used letro @ 2.5mg EOD for 2 weeks straight with no problems, then again I'm not normal..

 

[DR.D]

I use 0.1mg/d. That's all it takes. If you can read the original clinicals or even have a current PDR, look it up and you'll see why. I can tell you that 100 micrograms works though.