The IBE Epistane/ RPN Havoc PCT/ SERm

[muscleshreder]

Just seeing what your opinions on what the best PCT for there products?

At first Tamox Citrate was seen as the best serm then came more research on what is Torem and alot of good reviews and less sides there, then (as always) the IMO Calvary came in speaking their mind on that they are both worthless or Torem>Tamox , Tamox>Torem, Tamox= Torem, WTF> Torem & Tamox.

For those that are uncertain on a few things:

Tamox is Tamoxifen Citrate or Nolva
Torem is Toremifene citrate

THESE TOPICS ARE ONLY TALKED ABOUT FOR RESEARCH AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES.

PCT inclusion:
Lean Extreme (Favorite Fat Burner)
Basic supps like BCAA,Whey, BA, CM and Creatine
Cycle support
(Other mineral/vitamins/supps you want)

-MShreder
Dont karate slap my post plz

 

[jherman08]

My opinion, throw all serms into a hat. Close eyes and pick 1 or 2 :thumbsup:

Or let the price of them make the decisions for me

 

[JudoJosh]

Clomid hands down

 

[tnubs]

yup, clomid makes my balls inflate like a balloon. my fav by far

 

[muscleshreder]

My opinion, throw all serms into a hat. Close eyes and pick 1 or 2 :thumbsup:

Or let the price of them make the decisions for me

I agree with you on that. But its the small things that go can go unnotice have different purposes that they satisfy.
Its like throwing a green apple, red apple, and yellow apple into a hat and choose one although if you bite into them all you will know they are apples, yet bitting into the green one is Sour, red more Sweet, yellow more Bleh. if you know what or mean or see what im trying to get at here. not the best at comparisons. "_"

-MShreder
Dont Monkie Slap my post plz

 

[smt1]

What do you define as "best"? HPTA recovery? Yeah, I'll have to go with Clomid for that, especially for a very suppressive cycle.

 

[mattrag]

I heard nolva is really bad on the liver. I'm not sure of clomi but that could be a reason to go with clomi

 

[heavylifter33]

Pretty sure nolvadex still holds top spot for clinically proven.

 

[JudoJosh]

I agree with you on that. But its the small things that go can go unnotice have different purposes that they satisfy.
Its like throwing a green apple, red apple, and yellow apple into a hat and choose one although if you bite into them all you will know they are apples, yet bitting into the green one is Sour, red more Sweet, yellow more Bleh. if you know what or mean or see what im trying to get at here. not the best at comparisons. "_"

-MShreder
Dont Monkie Slap my post plz

I guess, if one of your apples is toxic, the other apple expensive with minimal evidence of effectiveness and the third apple being the most cost effective and safest, then yea sure its like choosing apples out of a hat.

I heard nolva is really bad on the liver. I'm not sure of clomi but that could be a reason to go with clomi

Yes, Nolva has a couple toxicity issues around it which is why clomid is a better option over nolva. As for clomid va torem, clomid has more evidence for its effectiveness in PCT and is cheaper over torem, again making clomid the clear better choice.

Hence, clomid hands down

Pretty sure nolvadex still holds top spot for clinically proven.

However studies on tamoxifen do appear to result in fatty liver and most likely a direct hepatoxicity effect ( or possibly estrogen mediated, im not sure) Also nolva strongly inhibits IGF-1 formation in the liver as an anti-androgenic effect.

IMO, raloxifene is a far better anti-gyno choice and clomid is the beat choice with regard to restarting the HPTA.

 

[muscleshreder]

Nolva(Tamox) vs Torem

Torem is proven as well just know as "widespreadly known" as Nolva(Tamox) which has been used over years and both recieved postive and negative feed back after looks at many many many articeles and responses and reviews on these two. From my pov it seems like :

Both are the same, but Tamox seems to have a higher toxicity then torem, however alot of people say tamox works better and will withstand the sides for that reason. So like i seen on another board you choose what appeal to your eye

 

[kaikara]

I've used both Tamox and Torem after H-drol cycles and couldn't tell a difference in either. They both seemed to work equally well without any sides. I'll be trying Clomid after my P-mag cycle.

 

[smt1]

Pretty sure nolvadex still holds top spot for clinically proven.

For what? HPTA recovery? No, that'd be Clomid. It's also the only SERM that endos will likely prescribe to men for this purpose.

 

[smt1]

Torem is just a chlorinated analogue of Tamoxifen, and was was developed primarily to address the possible toxicity issues with Tamoxifen. If you like Tamoxifen and can get Torem at the same price, it'd be stupid not to use the latter.