stano-drol vs androhard

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    lol @ you living in the past. i dont rep for anyone durr. we were cool then that's why i was offering you that what's your point?

    you really dont get it... you guys are not using the A:A RATIO that's my whole point... it's a ratio... you can't add those two figures for anabolic and androgenic and get any meaningful value for it... do you not understand that?

    PP practically took the A:A ratio, added the factor of estrogenic to make it an A:A:E ratio and then you added all three numbers to get an overall score for Testosterone at 375mg/week. not only that, but you're using that overall score to somehow compare other compounds together. that makes no sense whatsoever... you can't just add up all 3 variables and call something equivalent because it matches the same overall score.

    since when in the history of steroids did people start adding vida's A:A ratios? let alone call compounds equivalent based on the sum of those numbers lmao. do you honestly not see what's wrong with that?
    Our equivalencies are based on bioactivity science. The explanation is probably beyond the scope of this thread, but Ill give some quick clues...

    In bioassay research you will find analysis of total androgenic or estrogenic activity. Since we know the A:A ratio of these hormones from the vida, we consider those values too, hence our A:A:E ratio is a hybrid equivalence claim based off bioassay studies and A:A ratios mainly from the vida.

    In essense, we wanted to give people a general ballpark of effects from andro products. In theory, deriving a testosterone equivalent value from estrogen is possible. This of course on the most extreme end of the spectrum. The effects of DHT and testosterone are closer than the effects of testosterone and estrogen IMO. (probably a 70% overlap between T and DHT, with maybe only 30-40% overlap between T and E)

    The 375mg/week TE claim for AH makes sense in a real world setting. You would have a hard time differentiating a full dose of AH vs. 375mg/week of injectable T enanthate by examining end user results, bloods, physical examination, etc. The differences would become more clear as months went on, but would still be similar.

    Eitherway, bioassays are being used now to calculate the appropriate dose of DHT for TRT by simply measuring the total "androgen" activity. Naturally, the science will evolve, and we will see total estrogen activity measured in the TRT seeking male too. There is more logic in calculating the sum of hormone activity, rather than individual hormones. Its just a matter of correlating total "sum" estrogen or androgen activities with blood levels of individual hormones, creating an economical bioassay test, and implementing this in a clinical setting. Id say in the next 10-15 years we will see docs testing for "androgen activity" rather than T levels. I

    I expanded on this a bit last year on SHR - # 655 - New Methods Of HRT PLUS A1 And A2 Milk.. Do You Know What You Are Drinking? - Super Human Radio - The World's First Broadcast Radio Show Dedicated to Human Performance

    -eric


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Our equivalencies are based on bioactivity science. The explanation is probably beyond the scope of this thread, but Ill give some quick clues...

    In bioassay research you will find analysis of total androgenic or estrogenic activity. Since we know the A:A ratio of these hormones from the vida, we consider those values too, hence our A:A:E ratio is a hybrid equivalence claim based off bioassay studies and A:A ratios mainly from the vida.

    In essense, we wanted to give people a general ballpark of effects from andro products. In theory, deriving a testosterone equivalent value from estrogen is possible. This of course on the most extreme end of the spectrum. The effects of DHT and testosterone are closer than the effects of testosterone and estrogen IMO. (probably a 70% overlap between T and DHT, with maybe only 30-40% overlap between T and E)

    The 375mg/week TE claim for AH makes sense in a real world setting. You would have a hard time differentiating a full dose of AH vs. 375mg/week of injectable T enanthate by examining end user results, bloods, physical examination, etc. The differences would become more clear as months went on, but would still be similar.

    Eitherway, bioassays are being used now to calculate the appropriate dose of DHT for TRT by simply measuring the total "androgen" activity. Naturally, the science will evolve, and we will see total estrogen activity measured in the TRT seeking male too. There is more logic in calculating the sum of hormone activity, rather than individual hormones. Its just a matter of correlating total "sum" estrogen or androgen activities with blood levels of individual hormones, creating an economical bioassay test, and implementing this in a clinical setting. Id say in the next 10-15 years we will see docs testing for "androgen activity" rather than T levels. I

    I expanded on this a bit last year on SHR - # 655 - New Methods Of HRT PLUS A1 And A2 Milk.. Do You Know What You Are Drinking? - Super Human Radio - The World's First Broadcast Radio Show Dedicated to Human Performance

    -eric
    yes i know the estrogen case would be extreme but i was just trying to show why you can't sum the scores and call something equivalent... which is what was being explained. i understand what you're trying to do with T and DHT being more similar than T and E but when T is compared to other steroid hormones (without the outlier of estrogen) DHT becomes the outlier case in your system. something that is either purely anabolic, androgenic, or estrogenic seems too far fetched to throw into this "equivalence" system as it would not accommodate to the other factors enough to compare. DHT is one of those unfortunately, nandrolone as well, and simply estrogen of course. the ratios should stay as ratios as they mirror the differences in compounds. an overall "androgenic activity" skews what the compound is actually doing in the body.

    don't take offense but i personally don't believe an amount of DHT would produce the anabolic effects of 375mg/test having used 400mg/TE/week. Androgenic effects yes and beyond. But DHT has a tough time staying within the muscle alone without being converted to a weaker metabolite as it's normal allocation in the body is not in the muscle. too many factors against it playing an anabolic role in muscle tissue (molecular structure including) when compared to testosterone.

    however, the only reason i even cycle testosterone with other compounds like nandrolone or superdrol is for the DHT. the ol "add a test base" has long been mistaken, and should have been dubbed add a DHT base. so i will grab a bottle when funds allow and i am very much in favor of the product----less on the marketing and equivalence science. but ya can't win em all...

    this thread has been drawn out long enough. thanks for the explanation.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Our equivalencies are based on bioactivity science. The explanation is probably beyond the scope of this thread, but Ill give some quick clues...

    In bioassay research you will find analysis of total androgenic or estrogenic activity. Since we know the A:A ratio of these hormones from the vida, we consider those values too, hence our A:A:E ratio is a hybrid equivalence claim based off bioassay studies and A:A ratios mainly from the vida.

    In essense, we wanted to give people a general ballpark of effects from andro products. In theory, deriving a testosterone equivalent value from estrogen is possible. This of course on the most extreme end of the spectrum. The effects of DHT and testosterone are closer than the effects of testosterone and estrogen IMO. (probably a 70% overlap between T and DHT, with maybe only 30-40% overlap between T and E)

    The 375mg/week TE claim for AH makes sense in a real world setting. You would have a hard time differentiating a full dose of AH vs. 375mg/week of injectable T enanthate by examining end user results, bloods, physical examination, etc. The differences would become more clear as months went on, but would still be similar.

    Eitherway, bioassays are being used now to calculate the appropriate dose of DHT for TRT by simply measuring the total "androgen" activity. Naturally, the science will evolve, and we will see total estrogen activity measured in the TRT seeking male too. There is more logic in calculating the sum of hormone activity, rather than individual hormones. Its just a matter of correlating total "sum" estrogen or androgen activities with blood levels of individual hormones, creating an economical bioassay test, and implementing this in a clinical setting. Id say in the next 10-15 years we will see docs testing for "androgen activity" rather than T levels. I

    I expanded on this a bit last year on SHR - # 655 - New Methods Of HRT PLUS A1 And A2 Milk.. Do You Know What You Are Drinking? - Super Human Radio - The World's First Broadcast Radio Show Dedicated to Human Performance

    -eric
    Thanks for the explanation, this makes sense. The real question is how does it work for YOU? I loved AH V1, it worked very well and I would recommend it to anyone. I did not take V2 and will be trying V3 eventually after it gets to some of the online retailers. By the way, when is it getting to places like NP and Orbit guys?
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
    •   
       


  4. Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Thanks for the explanation, this makes sense. The real question is how does it work for YOU? I loved AH V1, it worked very well and I would recommend it to anyone. I did not take V2 and will be trying V3 eventually after it gets to some of the online retailers. By the way, when is it getting to places like NP and Orbit guys?
    ~3 weeks or so I believe


  5. Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Thanks for the explanation, this makes sense. The real question is how does it work for YOU? I loved AH V1, it worked very well and I would recommend it to anyone. I did not take V2 and will be trying V3 eventually after it gets to some of the online retailers. By the way, when is it getting to places like NP and Orbit guys?
    If I am not mistaken, Orbit should be getting it first. In fact he may be getting the 3 products (hard, drive and mass) by end of this week

    Matt
    Body Problem Mechanic
    National Level Competitor.

    www.mpasupps.com

  6. Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    If I am not mistaken, Orbit should be getting it first. In fact he may be getting the 3 products (hard, drive and mass) by end of this week

    Matt
    Nice... time to make some plans for it. I am really curious about AndroDrive as well.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).

  7. androhard v3 looks interesting, i think i'll give it a go after i get back from vacation. glad you guys take paypal

  8. Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    androhard v3 looks interesting, i think i'll give it a go after i get back from vacation. glad you guys take paypal
    Got me a bottle of AHv3 coming my way and cant wait to try it out. I got some of primodials old 1-T tren that I am gonna stack with it. Should be good times
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  9. Glad to see you guys will be enjoying it
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy

  10. Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Nice... time to make some plans for it. I am really curious about AndroDrive as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    androhard v3 looks interesting, i think i'll give it a go after i get back from vacation. glad you guys take paypal
    Keep checking Facebook... http://www.facebook.com/PrimordialPerformanceFans

    You know... just in case
    BODY PERFORMANCE SOLUTIONS REP
    Sustain Alpha is back!

  11. I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and buy a couple androhard v3. I hear phf and some other company are formulating a stanodrol clone so when one of these are released ill run it as well and compare the two.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Mafesto31 View Post
    I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and buy a couple androhard v3. I hear phf and some other company are formulating a stanodrol clone so when one of these are released ill run it as well and compare the two.
    Let us know what you think!
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy

  13. ROUND FUQIN 2!!!! LETS GO!!! LMFAO

  14. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Bump
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  15. I think the new stano deal is coming out or just came out.....so now this is a viable topic again.....

  16. I ran the androhard but haven't heard of this new one.

  17. I believe stano is mmv2 also. It's primary for aggression, focus, energy, but it's not as much of a hardener like AH. I've found pstanz and katanadrol to be more like AH, hardness and some lean gains.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    I think the new stano deal is coming out or just came out.....so now this is a viable topic again.....
    Is it? LGI right...


  19. Correct.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy

  20. Here to Study or Here to start ****?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by zendog View Post
    Here to Study or Here to start ****?
    both?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by zendog View Post
    Here to Study or Here to start ****?
    Didn't you post some **** spam in our other thread...

    *edit, seems I can't even mention that company anymore...4 letters starts with an N ends with an M...


  23. Quote Originally Posted by ryansm View Post
    Didn't you post some **** spam in our other thread...

    *edit, seems I can't even mention that company anymore...4 letters starts with an N ends with an M...
    yeah thats a no-no to post anymore...sort of like G N C...

  24. Quote Originally Posted by zendog View Post
    Here to Study or Here to start ****?
    this made me laugh. good job
    For me, the action IS the juice.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    this made me laugh. good job
    lol wow i just laughed again reading this.
    For me, the action IS the juice.

  26. AndroHard Power Rating

    1 Pill = ↑ 375ng/dL Testosterone Equivalent
    Research shows that androgen levels (e.g. testosterone) must increase by ~1300ng/dl to drop total body fat by 10%, and to increase lean body mass by 10%. (without training or diet intervention) (39-41)

    In-house research, in addition to outside studies, show that a daily dose of 6 AndroHard softgels increases androgens enough to match the overall bio-activity of a 2250ng/dL testosterone level. (42-51)

    Therefore, if your testosterone level is currently 950ng/dL, then 6 softgels of AndroHard will provide enough “testosterone-activity” to surpass the threshold and drop total body fat by 10%, and increase lean body mass by 10% -- if you change no factors at all.

    Results from our in-house subjects shows that additional lean mass and/or fat loss can be obtained by following an appropriate diet and training program.

    You primordial guys crack me up... They must give you a ****load of free product for you to stand behind this ****...

  27. Butthurt Need 2 fans. At least the company I stand behind is willing to test hormone powders they release to the public and recommend people ingest. Really happy you guys stuck around. Tell big Nate I am interested in some contest prep. I heard he really knows how to dial in.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy

  28. Some of the most ignorant people live on this board, in this thread even. ****.

    Nothing any of the PP reps explained was hard to understand, everything from the white paper analysis to the ball analogy. Now we have people who have nothing better to do than smash a company in between masturbation sessions because they don't understand the science behind the products.

    What wonderful times we live in.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Izzetmaster View Post
    Some of the most ignorant people live on this board, in this thread even. ****.

    Nothing any of the PP reps explained was hard to understand, everything from the white paper analysis to the ball analogy. Now we have people who have nothing better to do than smash a company in between masturbation sessions because they don't understand the science behind the products.

    What wonderful times we live in.
    Not that I am involved in this whole dispute at all. But you made an account just to say this?

  30. For some reason Izzetmaster sounds familiar. He could be a member from another board, not sure.

    As for the n e e d 2 fans, im not sure why they come in here and do what they do. There are other pressing matters for them to attend to im sure of, rather than trying to do what they do best.
    Primordial Performance
    ( at heart )

  31. Why in the hell did the 2 beta testers that used AndroHard both stay pretty much the SAME BODY WEIGHT, but lost 3-4% BF and got stronger. Oh I know .....they used REAL TESTED PURE hormones and trained, and ate appropriately for a nice recomp change.

    I would also like contest prep services and consultation !

    -Matt
    Body Problem Mechanic
    National Level Competitor.

    www.mpasupps.com

  32. I haven't had any experience with AndroHard. I have done a cycle of stanodrol which worked out excellent for me.
    Oh well in the end I can't really decide between both of them cause I haven't tried AndroHard.
    I will probably do a cycle soon and keep you updated in here!

  33. Quote Originally Posted by Starve View Post
    I haven't had any experience with AndroHard. I have done a cycle of stanodrol which worked out excellent for me.
    Oh well in the end I can't really decide between both of them cause I haven't tried AndroHard.
    I will probably do a cycle soon and keep you updated in here!

    What dose did you run the stano at? And how long?
  

  
 

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