Athletes

[trackstud100m]

Any athletes on the forum who has experience with low dose - high freq cycles? Ex:

Cycle 1: 4 weeks on + 4 weeks pct + 4 weeks off
Cycle 2: 4 weeks on + 2 weeks pct + 4 weeks off
Cycle 3: 4 weeks on + 4 weeks pct + 7-8 months off

My inseason is fairly long and I like to be on cycles for the most important periods.

 

[trackstud100m]

Got the idea from reading old east germany lit.

 

[trackstud100m]

The maximum state-sanctioned dose recorded in the STASI files for a female sprinter was 1650 mg per year, an average of 9.8 mg/day during the administration period or, viewed another way, an average of 4.5 mg/day over the whole year. The maximum dose recorded for a male sprinter was 1850 mg/year, an average of 11 mg/day during the administration period, or an average of 5 mg/day over the whole year. While trivial by bodybuilding standards, it sure got the job done!

 

[darsh89]

your time periods dont add up

Cycle 1: 3 months total
Cycle 2: 2.5 months
cycle 3: 2 months + then 7-8 months off??? total thats a year and 2.5-3.5 months and as far as i know there is no sport that follows that sort of schedule

 

[trackstud100m]

your time periods dont add up

Cycle 1: 3 months total
Cycle 2: 2.5 months
cycle 3: 2 months + then 7-8 months off??? total thats a year and 2.5-3.5 months and as far as i know there is no sport that follows that sort of schedule

Read - it was an example - not the real thing.

 

[heavylifter33]

What exactly are you looking to run? I've done things with cycles that most won't do, and i've come out pretty good and then sometimes pretty bad, so i do have some real world experience with it. Depending on the compound, you can run back to back cycles, but the amount of time i would take off after that would easily be 8-9 months. Your body goes through some serious change and you need to pump the breaks and help everything else catch up to your muscles, plus give your endocrine system a rest (so to speak).

 

[trackstud100m]

low amounts of tbol - similar to the east german athletes.

Currently im doing a 4 wk cycle
4wk cycle indoor season
4 wk cycle during outdoors.

What exactly are you looking to run? I've done things with cycles that most won't do, and i've come out pretty good and then sometimes pretty bad, so i do have some real world experience with it. Depending on the compound, you can run back to back cycles, but the amount of time i would take off after that would easily be 8-9 months. Your body goes through some serious change and you need to pump the breaks and help everything else catch up to your muscles, plus give your endocrine system a rest (so to speak).

 

[heavylifter33]

low amounts of tbol - similar to the east german athletes.

Currently im doing a 4 wk cycle
4wk cycle indoor season
4 wk cycle during outdoors.

What's your experience with anabolics to this point? If you do know what you're doing i think you would be fine with this protocol. Take NAC daily and have a solid PCT regimine and you should come out fine.

 

[trackstud100m]

Exp: Extensive

I have done this before without any issues - wanted to hear from others. I don't use bb amounts - I only use 10-15mgs of tbol. The problem most people have is they take higher amounts.

What's your experience with anabolics to this point? If you do know what you're doing i think you would be fine with this protocol. Take NAC daily and have a solid PCT regimine and you should come out fine.

 

[darsh89]

Exp: Extensive

I have done this before without any issues - wanted to hear from others. I don't use bb amounts - I only use 10-15mgs of tbol. The problem most people have is they take higher amounts.

youd prob be good with that. Do you have any way to get regular blood tests done to make sure your doing ok?

 

[trackstud100m]

Yes. I have done in the past also and all went well. Between these short cycles would you recommend 2 or 4 weeks of pct? What's your thoughts on the low amounts the east germans was using?

youd prob be good with that. Do you have any way to get regular blood tests done to make sure your doing ok?

 

[jbryand101b]

if i ran 10-15mg of tbol for 4 weeks, or even 8 weeks, i wouldn't even bother with pct, i'd just take time off.

8 weeks at 40mg e/d doesn't require more than a herbal test booster or daa for a pct.

 

[trackstud100m]

if i ran 10-15mg of tbol for 4 weeks, or even 8 weeks, i wouldn't even bother with pct, i'd just take time off.

8 weeks at 40mg e/d doesn't require more than a herbal test booster or daa for a pct.

What's your thoughts on what the germans did with 10-15mgs? I understand bb and athletics have different goals.

 

[heavylifter33]

Exp: Extensive

I have done this before without any issues - wanted to hear from others. I don't use bb amounts - I only use 10-15mgs of tbol. The problem most people have is they take higher amounts.

Well since you know what you're doing, i'm ok with it. 4 weeks @ 10mg or so isn't going to kill your liver. I'm not totally sure endogenous test, but i reckon an OTC PCT would be fine, something like DAA + Triazole would be my recommendation. SERM probably is not needed. If blood tests are available i strongly recommend getting one at the end of the first PCT and before you start cycle #2. Good luck m8.

 

[trackstud100m]

Cycle 1 (Currently): 5 weeks on+3 weeks pct+4 weeks off (Methylhydroxynandrolone - 15mgs)
Cycle 2: 4 weeks on+2 weeks pct+4 weeks off (tbol - 20mgs)
Cycle 3: 4 weeks on+2 weeks pct+7 months off (tbol -20mgs)

 

[ripped_one]

I would use testosterone at 150-200mg a week, inject a couple of days before your race days. If you are a sprinter, winstrol at 15-20mg for a couple of weeks leading up to the big day. If you race a 400-1600m, you need to look into epo. Everything is peanuts compared to having a high hematocrit.

 

[trackstud100m]

Winstrol is **** on the joints esp for a sprinter. Seen to friends pull/tear hamstrings while on winny.

I would use testosterone at 150-200mg a week, inject a couple of days before your race days. If you are a sprinter, winstrol at 15-20mg for a couple of weeks leading up to the big day. If you race a 400-1600m, you need to look into epo. Everything is peanuts compared to having a high hematocrit.

 

[trackstud100m]

if i ran 10-15mg of tbol for 4 weeks, or even 8 weeks, i wouldn't even bother with pct, i'd just take time off.

8 weeks at 40mg e/d doesn't require more than a herbal test booster or daa for a pct.

anyone else agree.

 

[alwaysfirst]

Would low dose of dbol work?

 

[trackstud100m]

Would low dose of dbol work?

Yes it could but i have had great exp with tbol.

 

[jbryand101b]

What's your thoughts on what the germans did with 10-15mgs? I understand bb and athletics have different goals.

I remember reading of a study giving female (athletes?) 10mg of tbol for 2 years and they experienced little to no side effects. Can't remember where, or find it now, but in vida tbol has a androgenic rating of 0 for what ever that's worth, in my opinion it is the safest steroid one can use ( well as safe as steroids can be lol).

10-15mg sounds like a therapeutic dose, I think 20-30 would be as low as you would want to go for athletic performance enhancement. With most likely no pct required, even for a 8 week cycle at that dose (20-30mg)

 

[trackstud100m]

I think you are talking about the east german study I posted many times. Why no pct?

 

[alwaysfirst]

How would you put a 8 week cycle together?

 

[jbryand101b]

I think you are talking about the east german study I posted many times. Why no pct?

i dont think so. where is the link you have posted many times? i dont have almost 6k post cause i dont frequent the forum much.

but no pct would be required d/t the minimal supression it would have on the hpta.

tbol has a low androgenic rating because it doesn't bind strongly to the androgen receptor. it binds strongly to shbg which is one of the reasons it has such a long half life.

the stronger the androgen binds to the ar, the more supression it will most likely have as well as it will also have more effects in both positive (anabolism etc) and negative sides.

 

[jbryand101b]

Winstrol is **** on the joints esp for a sprinter. Seen to friends pull/tear hamstrings while on winny.

yea, this explains why so many olympic athletes like sprinters use winstrol.

 

[trackstud100m]

So ill be good with two weeks of nolva at 20mgs?

i dont think so. where is the link you have posted many times? i dont have almost 6k post cause i dont frequent the forum much.

but no pct would be required d/t the minimal supression it would have on the hpta.

tbol has a low androgenic rating because it doesn't bind strongly to the androgen receptor. it binds strongly to shbg which is one of the reasons it has such a long half life.

the stronger the androgen binds to the ar, the more supression it will most likely have as well as it will also have more effects in both positive (anabolism etc) and negative sides.

 

[ripped_one]

Winstrol can make ligaments grow and lose elasticity, but only after chronic use. If you use it for 2-3 weeks for strength and speed come race day, then there should be no issues. I have seen track guys use low dose test and tren as well.

 

[jbryand101b]

sure, if thats what you like. i like clomid but w/e.

im sure you'd be fine with daa & low dosed topical formestane.

 

[trackstud100m]

Winstrol can make ligaments grow and lose elasticity, but only after chronic use. If you use it for 2-3 weeks for strength and speed come race day, then there should be no issues. I have seen track guys use low dose test and tren as well.

I felt like a beast when I took test+tren+halo...

 

[ripped_one]

I felt like a beast when I took test+tren+halo...

I imagine so...

 

[trackstud100m]

Posted this before - would like to get more thoughts. Note: The amounts are on the low side.
5 wks mhn (complete)
4 wks pct (2 weeks to go)
1 off
4 wks tbol
4 wks pct
4 wks off
4 wks tbol
4 wks pct
6-7 months off

Thoughts??

 

[ripped_one]

Posted this before - would like to get more thoughts. Note: The amounts are on the low side.
5 wks mhn (complete)
4 wks pct (2 weeks to go)
1 off
4 wks tbol
4 wks pct
4 wks off
4 wks tbol
4 wks pct
6-7 months off

Thoughts??

Yea. The East Germans used Tbol for one reason: IT WAS UNDETECTABLE. If it weren't for that, they would never have used it. There are MUCH better things to use.

Run 150-200mg a week of test, get your crit up to 55% with EPO, and maybe do a LOW dose AI. Run that the entire time you are competing. 12, 16, 20 weeks, whatever. If you want to use tbol, use it sparingly and only for a 10-15 days prior to one of your 'A' events, but ON TOP of the test and epo. It's just to help increase glycogen storage and maximum strength, which is good for short races like 100-200m, but possibly a hindrance if you go past 400m, due to extra weight gain and a small decrease in cardio ability. The test & epo is for recovery and oxygen carrying capacity. The AI is to help keep water weight down. If you use too much of an AI though, you *can* get cramping.

I've doped, helped others dope, and talked with dopers who are PROFESSIONALS in their sport. This is the gold standard in doping for running, swimming, cycling, cross country skiing, etc.

 

[trackstud100m]

Thanks for your advice. I used tbol many times and my body seems to like it. My events are the 60/100m so a little weight gain won't matter much esp after completing this t3 cycle. To be honest at the amounts I'm looking at taking and the amounts the germans took weight gain isn't an issue. Curious to what the benefits are to taking tbol 10-15 days before big events? To be honest tbol is one of the best drugs I have taken besides test prop+tren ace.

Yea. The East Germans used Tbol for one reason: IT WAS UNDETECTABLE. If it weren't for that, they would never have used it. There are MUCH better things to use.

Run 150-200mg a week of test, get your crit up to 55% with EPO, and maybe do a LOW dose AI. Run that the entire time you are competing. 12, 16, 20 weeks, whatever. If you want to use tbol, use it sparingly and only for a 10-15 days prior to one of your 'A' events, but ON TOP of the test and epo. It's just to help increase glycogen storage and maximum strength, which is good for short races like 100-200m, but possibly a hindrance if you go past 400m, due to extra weight gain and a small decrease in cardio ability. The test & epo is for recovery and oxygen carrying capacity. The AI is to help keep water weight down. If you use too much of an AI though, you *can* get cramping.

I've doped, helped others dope, and talked with dopers who are PROFESSIONALS in their sport. This is the gold standard in doping for running, swimming, cycling, cross country skiing, etc.

 

[alwaysfirst]

Yea. The East Germans used Tbol for one reason: IT WAS UNDETECTABLE. If it weren't for that, they would never have used it. There are MUCH better things to use.

Is it really undetectable, still??!

 

[jbryand101b]

No, its easily detectable, with a long half life

 

[ripped_one]

Curious to what the benefits are to taking tbol 10-15 days before big events?

It will give you a decent boost in strength, decrease recovery time, as well as increase glycogen stores leading up to the event. 10-15 days is just a ballpark here. If you run too much for too long, you know as well as I do that it can cause bad pumps from an over abundance of glycogen and water storage. You shouldn't have issues if you keep the dose moderate and length of use to 10-15 days. You might be able to get away with more, but that's all about individual response to the drug.

The test will increase consistency with your training and allow you to train with more volume and intensity than you are use to. Using it in the offseason will allow you to have a HUGE base, which will definitely help when it comes to race season. Then when you are in the race season, using test will help you be more consistent at the meets. Your times will faster than normal, and more consistent week to week.

Since you are only running 100m, using a little tren during the race season isn't a bad idea. I wouldn't really use it in the offseason, because it is not that healthy of a drug, but I think the performance benefits in race season outweighs the risks here. Again, low dose...

 

[ripped_one]

No, its easily detectable, with a long half life

Been detectable since the 70's I believe.

 

[trackstud100m]

5 wks mhn (complete)
4 wks pct (2 weeks to go)
1 off
4 wks tbol
4 wks pct
4 wks off
4 wks tbol
4 wks pct
6-7 months off

With the plan I have above do you see any problems since the cycles are short with low amounts 20-30mg max.

It will give you a decent boost in strength, decrease recovery time, as well as increase glycogen stores leading up to the event. 10-15 days is just a ballpark here. If you run too much for too long, you know as well as I do that it can cause bad pumps from an over abundance of glycogen and water storage. You shouldn't have issues if you keep the dose moderate and length of use to 10-15 days. You might be able to get away with more, but that's all about individual response to the drug.

The test will increase consistency with your training and allow you to train with more volume and intensity than you are use to. Using it in the offseason will allow you to have a HUGE base, which will definitely help when it comes to race season. Then when you are in the race season, using test will help you be more consistent at the meets. Your times will faster than normal, and more consistent week to week.

Since you are only running 100m, using a little tren during the race season isn't a bad idea. I wouldn't really use it in the offseason, because it is not that healthy of a drug, but I think the performance benefits in race season outweighs the risks here. Again, low dose...

 

[ripped_one]

The cycle looks fine, but it all depends on where your races fall, training load / schedule, etc. For instance, you don't want to have a big meet fall at week 3 of your 'off' week between cycles. You also don't want to plan a heavy training load during pct & the off weeks.

Post your race schedule and training schedule.

 

[trackstud100m]

jan 9 start cycle
jan 14-21-28 (on cycle)
feb 4-11-18 (off cycle last 2 weeks 11/18)

Feb 11/18: I'll still be getting some benefits from the drugs.

The cycle looks fine, but it all depends on where your races fall, training load / schedule, etc. For instance, you don't want to have a big meet fall at week 3 of your 'off' week between cycles. You also don't want to plan a heavy training load during pct & the off weeks.

Post your race schedule and training schedule.

 

[groverino]

I've had good experience with dbol 10-15mg daily2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. I'd like to try it with superdrol but I fear it would shut me down.

 

[jbryand101b]

I've had good experience with dbol 10-15mg daily2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. I'd like to try it with superdrol but I fear it would shut me down.

you'd prob have to get the sd in 5mg caps instead of 10mg.

 

[groverino]

you'd prob have to get the sd in 5mg caps instead of 10mg.

Actually I bought a bottle of 5mg caps for just that purpose. I never ran anything for pct with the dbol, butI'm not sure I'd get away with it with the super. I did 2 on 2 off three times and then took a full month. It was very helpful in retaining muscle during a major calorie deficit.

 

[alwaysfirst]

Actually I bought a bottle of 5mg caps for just that purpose. I never ran anything for pct with the dbol, butI'm not sure I'd get away with it with the super. I did 2 on 2 off three times and then took a full month. It was very helpful in retaining muscle during a major calorie deficit.

How was your gains and did you retain any water?

 

[groverino]

Not a whole lot in gains since I was dropping weight at the time. My goal was retaining muscle mass and strength while cutting and I think it was great for that purpose. There was always a few pounds of water that would come off during the down weeks.