My first cycle ever, asking for expertise
02-10-2003 05:09 PM
You dont need HCG! You can achieve full recovery from Clomid alone, not because its an anti-estrogen, but because of the LH stimulation which occurs from the Clomid! This stimulation does originate in the Testes, and may be a less surge or stimulation if the testes are atrophied, but it WILL still occur!
The general population uses Clomid. As it is SUPERIOR than HCG. You can recover alone of Clomid, but not off HCG. Simple fact right there.
Those that use HCG only really need it on a heavy cycle, or on one that is long. Why? Cause your testes are much further atrophied than your typical 10wk study.
02-10-2003 09:18 PM
I would change the deca to EQ. Deca can be very suppressive for some individuals and in turn takes months to recover rather than weeks. For this reason alone i never use deca.
Whether or not you choose to use HCG is up to you. HCG will definitely help with recovery but if used incorrectly it can cause problems. For this reason many choose not to use HCG even though it will definitely aid in recovery and the ability to hold onto gains. If not using HCG then a combo of nolvadex and clomid is preferred for post cycle.
02-11-2003 07:22 AM
1) So I gather from what everyone is saying, 10 weeks isn't enough to fear for my health without HCG, despite it's value?
2) A lot of ppl seem to prefer EQ...but I chose Deca for its size building...this is still legit right?*
3) I've read that clomid and nova more or less do the samething...and you can choose just one for recovery. SIZE: What sort of clomid/nova COMBO cycle do you recommend post cycle? Is it better to take both? I've seen ppl do clomid a-dex and nova all during a cycle...is this the same idea?
*What everyone is saying about Deca worries me, can someone defend it? When I was 18, I took an andro stack straight outta highschool. Remember Paradeca? Anyway, may because I was too young, I lost everyone ouce of libido I had post 6 week cycle for 2 months. I seem to be particularly sensitive in this area...I don't particularly care about retaining size post cycle this time (because I know I can't keep it all and I can't lose it all,) but I am truly concerned about the quality and length my recovery!! How long 3 weeks after my last test inj. do u think I can resume a normal sex life???? thanks for your input.
02-11-2003 06:38 PM
EQ is just a better drug in my opinion especially since you do not know how you will react to deca.
HCG should be used and is prefered but many choose not to use it. IF you choose not to then you will still keep gains with correct post cycle treatment but not to the fullest extent.
Without HCG do this:
Week 1: 100mg clomid, 50mg nolvadex ed
Week 2: 50mg clomid, 40mg nolvadex ed
Week 3: 25mg clomid, 30mg nolvadex ed
Week 4: 20mg nolvadex ed
This should allow you to recover properly and maintain gains. however, Raybravo is correct about his usage of HCG.
02-11-2003 06:41 PM
I disagree. Thats why there is a long standing debate whether to use HCG or not. But to each his own.
02-11-2003 06:42 PM
Very true. I will add that i do not use HCG. Originally posted by YellowJacket I disagree. Thats why there is a long standing debate whether to use HCG or not. But to each his own.
02-11-2003 11:13 PM
Altnernative 1st cylcle?
Hey guys, I've already ordered all the gear, and pretty much committed to this bulking cycle. Now, I got curious with everyone talking about EQ, and decided to do some more research. Suddenly, I'm not so sure if I'm taking the right route! I read that primo and winny are both great for the beginner, wihch bring him to closer to a natural potential with more permanent and lasting gains (hardening muscle and increasing strength) and with minimal sides. Other than being light and safe, this supposedly paves the way better for a future bulking cycle? Now, I know this would typically be a cutting cycle, especially if I throw in EQ and a test, used afer bulking. But my question is, should I defy the usual get-big-first-then-cut-down logic in favor of maximizing my body's potential and more efficiently using AAS for both cycles? Meaning, use a light cutting cycle just to prepare my body for the hard stuff later. Or should I stay with what I planned and go the whole nine yards with the test-deca-dbol? I understand the first cycle is a precious one to make gains...what do you guys think???? safe conservativism or bold aggressiveness?
P.S. Size: thanks for the postcycle, I'll do both instead of clomid alone.
As for HCG, I'll spare myself the touch decision and attribute not taking it to money!
02-12-2003 07:25 AM
02-12-2003 08:22 PM
Primo is a wonderful drug but finding the real stuff is very difficult. I would estimate that 80%+ of primo in the market is fake and this is from people in the know.
02-12-2003 10:41 PM
Size: Does that mean people who go on cutting cycles don't use Primo? I guess I don't need it, can you tell me if it's a good idea for my first cylcle to *not* do what I have now, and instead do EQ and winstrol? Which one do you think will maximize future results? I ask this because I heard gains off EQ and winny were more permanent, and maybe good for beginners.
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