DIENOLONE GYNO HELP (need clarification)

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    DIENOLONE GYNO HELP (need clarification)


    So there's endless info on gyno, but everything seems so vague. And it seems like a lot of previously reccomended stuff isn't so readily available in 2011. ....ANYWAYS,

    Did a 6 week EPI/X-TREN (prodienolone) run...No gyno. During my PCT i noticed some nipple sensitivity, then around week 3-4 of PCT, a small, pea-sized lump developed. I ignored it for a little, but no more. I want to kill it.

    -Pea sized lump
    -No prior gyno
    -Only on one side
    -No lactation at all
    -Soreness when pressing right on the lump
    -Nipples aren't puffy

    I searched and came up with a huge variance of options:
    -P-5-P
    -Cabergoline (Dostinex)
    -Letrozole
    -Nolva
    -Formestane
    -ATD
    -Aromasin
    -Arimidex

    I have P-5-P on hand, which i started taking. The lump got SLIGHTLY smaller, but not by much. I also have Nolva on hand, but read mixed opinions on it's effectiveness toward 19nor-gyno.

    I can get my hands on Letro and Aromasin, but idk where to get cabergoline. I have health insurance, but idk how to bring up a situation like this.

    I'd like to try an OTC option first. ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED. Thanks
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    No bloodwork yet? I'd get that done. It's only like $150-180 if you pay cash.
    Drug wise:

    Letro: 1mg ED for the first 3-4 days, then you can go to 0.5 mg EOD.
    B6: 300-400mg ED

    I'm sure someone will chime in with DAA or Erase, but I'd only use those as supplements to the above.
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    I wouldn't play around with OTC aromatase inhibitors if gyno is really starting to form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripped_one View Post
    I wouldn't play around with OTC aromatase inhibitors if gyno is really starting to form.
    No bloods

    well I got B6 on hand, and currently have Letro, Aromasin, and Arimidex on the way... Gyno isn't getting worse (only gotten slightly better since taking p5p), so Im not in a panic-frenzy, but it annoys the hell outta me. so if none of these AI's work, im goin to the dr.
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    Try a mix of gh products like animal pm, otc ai, like 6-bromo, anti cortisol like reduce xt, pct assist, and some topical resveratrol like r-spray

    That should cover most if not all of your hormonal basses. Gyno if a result of multiple hormonal imbalances, not just one.
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    Anyone know bout form-x by LG? Pretty good sale on nutra. They compare it to atd and 6-bromo
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    Letro, and to be safe B6, should be all you need. Letro should get rid of it (reduce it, gland will not go away).
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Try a mix of gh products like animal pm, otc ai, like 6-bromo, anti cortisol like reduce xt, pct assist, and some topical resveratrol like r-spray

    That should cover most if not all of your hormonal basses. Gyno if a result of multiple hormonal imbalances, not just one.
    agreed... prolactin gyno can usually only occur when you have high est as well... its almost never just more of one or the other...

    just like estrogen induced gyno doesnt usually occur with high est alone if t levels are equally high... but when there is a high E:t ratio with est being higher then norm and t being lower its a perfect environment for developing some nice tits...

    I would def look into an AI, SERM AND dopamine supp.... p-5-p AND l-dopa together would be my suggestion.... and at moderate doses for all, no reason to go over board and throw things outta whack in the opposite direction... bloods would be very beneficial in this situation and with all the money your talking bout spending on supplements the 50 dollars it takes to do bloods is well spent and will help weed out whats worth buying and whats not.

    Look in the anabolics section, im sure the sticky is still there for the cheap bloodwork loophole.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    agreed... prolactin gyno can usually only occur when you have high est as well... its almost never just more of one or the other...

    just like estrogen induced gyno doesnt usually occur with high est alone if t levels are equally high... but when there is a high E:t ratio with est being higher then norm and t being lower its a perfect environment for developing some nice tits...

    I would def look into an AI, SERM AND dopamine supp.... p-5-p AND l-dopa together would be my suggestion.... and at moderate doses for all, no reason to go over board and throw things outta whack in the opposite direction... bloods would be very beneficial in this situation and with all the money your talking bout spending on supplements the 50 dollars it takes to do bloods is well spent and will help weed out whats worth buying and whats not.

    Look in the anabolics section, im sure the sticky is still there for the cheap bloodwork loophole.
    Thanks for all the input guys. Seems like im headed in the right direction now. Whats beneficial about l-dopa
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    Dopamine has many functions in the brain, including important roles in behavior and cognition, voluntary movement, motivation, punishment and reward, inhibition of prolactin production (involved in lactation and sexual gratification), sleep, mood, attention, working memory, and learning.

    l-dopa is a precursor to dopamine.

    vitamin b-6 (p5p specifically) will only aid in the conversion to dopamine.

    it may be benificial to use both if you want to give that a try. still suggest you hit it from all sides, that is what i do, and i never get gyno symptoms on or post cycle any more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Dopamine has many functions in the brain, including important roles in behavior and cognition, voluntary movement, motivation, punishment and reward, inhibition of prolactin production (involved in lactation and sexual gratification), sleep, mood, attention, working memory, and learning.

    l-dopa is a precursor to dopamine.

    vitamin b-6 will only aid in the conversion to dopamine.

    it may be benificial to use both if you want to give that a try. still suggest you hit it from all sides, that is what i do, and i never get gyno symptoms on or post cycle any more.
    word
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Dopamine has many functions in the brain, including important roles in behavior and cognition, voluntary movement, motivation, punishment and reward, inhibition of prolactin production (involved in lactation and sexual gratification), sleep, mood, attention, working memory, and learning.

    l-dopa is a precursor to dopamine.

    vitamin b-6 will only aid in the conversion to dopamine.

    it may be benificial to use both if you want to give that a try. still suggest you hit it from all sides, that is what i do, and i never get gyno symptoms on or post cycle any more.
    seriously good info. i wish i realized how ****ty gyno was prior, but for some reason i thought i was superman. anyways i'll look right into dopamine, being that everything else mentioned I already have, or is on the way.

    any reccomendations?
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    anything with high level extracts of mucuna pruriens would be your best bet... NOW has a produt for cheap but its only a 15% extract... Id look for better.... theres tons to choose from... throw it in the nutra search http://www.nutraplanet.com/search?query=mucuna+pruriens

    Also the one on there that I personally like the most is Powerful which contains 1-carboxy... IGF-2 gets tons of praise too but ive personally never tried it.
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    I would start with 2mg of letro and taper down .5mg every 5 days. Also use B6 + L dopa while on the letro the whole time. Once you get to .5mg of letro switch to aromasin or a very low dose of adex for another 2wks. Slowly taper down and off again, the same way as with letro. You will also prolly need a DA like caber while on the letro if you want to have any libido.

    you cant use stop taking such powerful and potent dosed AI's, so switching from letro to another AI is part of this process.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymrat827 View Post
    I would start with 2mg of letro and taper down .5mg every 5 days. Also use B6 + L dopa while on the letro the whole time. Once you get to .5mg of letro switch to aromasin or a very low dose of adex for another 2wks. Slowly taper down and off again, the same way as with letro. You will also prolly need a DA like caber while on the letro if you want to have any libido.

    you cant use stop taking such powerful and potent dosed AI's, so switching from letro to another AI is part of this process.
    thanks bro, that really helps. any idea what the dosages would be like for the aromasin or adex? maybe I can do a 2 week cycle of each.

    I have BPS' Combustion (natty test booster) that I was going to start up sometime soon. Would it help or hinder the gyno at all?
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    forgot to mention, p5p, the active form of b6 is specifically what will aid in the conversion of l-dopa to dopamine.

    "P5P (Pyridoxal-phosphate (PLP, pyridoxal-5'-phosphate, P5P) ) plays a role in the conversion of dopa into dopamine, allows the conversion of the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate to the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA, and allows SAM to be decarboxylated to form propylamine, which is a precursor to polyamines "
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    forgot to mention, p5p, the active form of b6 is specifically what will aid in the conversion of l-dopa to dopamine.

    "P5P (Pyridoxal-phosphate (PLP, pyridoxal-5'-phosphate, P5P) ) plays a role in the conversion of dopa into dopamine, allows the conversion of the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate to the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA, and allows SAM to be decarboxylated to form propylamine, which is a precursor to polyamines "
    thus my initial suggestion

    OP...

    A natty test booster will only help aid in libido at this point, I wouldnt worry about it effecting gyno with all these strong chems your taking blocking estrogen...

    also gymrat.... why caber AND ldopa/p-5-p??? doesnt make sense to me...
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    p5p and a good l-dopa source for OTC

    Dose Letro at 2.0- 2.5 for a couple weeks then lower is .5 every few days them start an OTC AI like Form when you add .5mg per day letro.

    Caber works but i have never used it so just read above.
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    I got rid of mine with L-Dopa, P-5-P and Androhard version one. This was after trying to kill it with nolva and formastanozol.
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    winstrol/nolva/letro for 8 weeks

    and a serious caloric defecit
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
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    I read on another forum that B6 reduce L-dopa's effectiveness however I don't have studies to back it up. Anyone knows anything about that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fadi View Post
    I read on another forum that B6 reduce L-dopa's effectiveness however I don't have studies to back it up. Anyone knows anything about that?
    so many people dose them together.

    i hear l-dopa is just a bitch to begin with when absorbing. just do both.

    some use vitex, i hear vitex takes awhile to kick in as well. Just use Letro, Prami is hit or miss with people. Caber harder to get but works best i hear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 808rebel View Post
    So there's endless info on gyno, but everything seems so vague. And it seems like a lot of previously reccomended stuff isn't so readily available in 2011. ....ANYWAYS,

    Did a 6 week EPI/X-TREN (prodienolone) run...No gyno. During my PCT i noticed some nipple sensitivity, then around week 3-4 of PCT, a small, pea-sized lump developed. I ignored it for a little, but no more. I want to kill it.

    -Pea sized lump
    -No prior gyno
    -Only on one side
    -No lactation at all
    -Soreness when pressing right on the lump
    -Nipples aren't puffy

    I searched and came up with a huge variance of options:
    -P-5-P
    -Cabergoline (Dostinex)
    -Letrozole
    -Nolva
    -Formestane
    -ATD
    -Aromasin
    -Arimidex
    I have the exact same problem. I've have had it for years. I don't mind this knot as it reminds me if things are going awry. I use Formesatne to reduce swelling, inflamation and tenderness. It works everytime I have a flare-up. I just had a flare-up from DAA usage. Formestane took care of the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I have the exact same problem. I've have had it for years. I don't mind this knot as it reminds me if things are going awry. I use Formesatne to reduce swelling, inflamation and tenderness. It works everytime I have a flare-up. I just had a flare-up from DAA usage. Formestane took care of the problem.
    good to know bro. I read that some had success with formestane. I'll probably go that route if i dont see results with letro/p5p/l-dopa combo.

    BTW im starting my letro today. Won't be logging it, but i'll come back in here and do minor updates for whom ever may stumble across this thread in the future... i've already started p5p, just waiting on the l-dopa to come in
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    dude do both, use the letro and when you taper down your letro work in the Form to ease off the hard stuff like letro. it works well to prevent rebound as well as fight gyno.
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    thats solid advice... I def prefer the strength of the Pharm grade AI's but the OTC suicide AI's make it impossible to have a sudden rebound of unbound estrogen... Form it up as you come of letro
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    Other things may work fine. I never tried anything except Formestane.
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    i got rebound from Erase....just sayin.

    Did not get rebound from ATD, 6 oxo and of course my lovely Form.

    When it came to performance Erase however did give me best strength, libido , and leaness but didnt do to estro what i needed it to. Many and I mean many people have used Erase with excellent success but Form has years of research.
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    some GREAT advice throughout...thanks to everyone..

    Just a small update. Still haven't recieved my l-dopa, but after 2 days on letro, and a couple weeks on P5P, i've already noticed a significant decrease in the lump size. The pain has lessened as well.
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    honestly you know what helped remove the pain more then anything for me??? DHT based compounds... i ran some transdermal 3aa this summer and it did wonders for reducing the size and pain...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    honestly you know what helped remove the pain more then anything for me??? DHT based compounds... i ran some transdermal 3aa this summer and it did wonders for reducing the size and pain...
    Androhard V II does this amazing I hear.
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    808rebel
    How are you dosing the letro and p5p?
    I'm currently running epi/11sterone going into my 3rd week got some sensitivity to the nipples and a hard lump....this sucks
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbie96 View Post
    808rebel
    How are you dosing the letro and p5p?
    I'm currently running epi/11sterone going into my 3rd week got some sensitivity to the nipples and a hard lump....this sucks
    what the! cant believe you got gyno from those. they supress estro. Thats odd, get blood work. but dose letro like this

    day 1 1.0mg
    day 2 1.5mg
    day3. 2.0
    and if stay at 2.0 or bump and stay at 2.5 and stay at that for a week after it goes away or gets tiny.

    BUT if you take letro on cycle you will want to use a much lower dose. 1, 1.25. usually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwhiteguy29

    what the! cant believe you got gyno from those. they supress estro. Thats odd, get blood work. but dose letro like this

    day 1 1.0mg
    day 2 1.5mg
    day3. 2.0
    and if stay at 2.0 or bump and stay at 2.5 and stay at that for a week after it goes away or gets tiny.

    BUT if you take letro on cycle you will want to use a much lower dose. 1, 1.25. usually.
    I know....didn't see that coming. I felt some sensitivity about 4 days ago. I had read that sensitivity/puffy nipples is normal on epi so I didn't think anything of it. Then last night I felt the lump.

    I'm waiting for letro to arrive, I've got liquid tamoxifen on hand. Should I start dosing the tamox now? What dosage?

    Thanks, again.
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    i've got NOW P5P and Im taking 2 caps AM, 2 caps PM. I Was taking 4AM and 4 PM, but decided to tone it down and be more conventional, vs. going overkill.

    For the Letro, I didn't realize I shouldve tapered up. I started at 2mg and have stayed at that.
    -It's not about what you're doing, it's about how you're doing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbie96 View Post
    I know....didn't see that coming. I felt some sensitivity about 4 days ago. I had read that sensitivity/puffy nipples is normal on epi so I didn't think anything of it. Then last night I felt the lump.

    I'm waiting for letro to arrive, I've got liquid tamoxifen on hand. Should I start dosing the tamox now? What dosage?

    Thanks, again.
    what brand of epi was this???
    iForceHemavol=He-man?-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/187487-hemavol-heman-doughs.htmlCompound 20 Beta log-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/185396-molding-dough-compound.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough

    what brand of epi was this???
    IBE. I'm wondering if the 11 sterone may have antagonized the issue, I've been dosing it at 900 mg. from what I've read, at that dosage it turns into testosterone so maybe the higher I flux of test brought on some higher estrogen too. Dunno. I need to do some blood work.
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    i would consider that more likely then anything else... I actually took IBE Epi standalone and saw a small reduction in my gyno... so its surprising to me to see otherwise...
    I didnt know 11-oxo had any conversion to test! Is there any articles or threads on this?
    iForceHemavol=He-man?-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/187487-hemavol-heman-doughs.htmlCompound 20 Beta log-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/185396-molding-dough-compound.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough
    i would consider that more likely then anything else... I actually took IBE Epi standalone and saw a small reduction in my gyno... so its surprising to me to see otherwise...
    I didnt know 11-oxo had any conversion to test! Is there any articles or threads on this?
    I'm sorry, I mean it converts to 11keto-testosterone. I'll see if I can find some articles.
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    ok... that I know... can 11-keto test aromatize?
    iForceHemavol=He-man?-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/187487-hemavol-heman-doughs.htmlCompound 20 Beta log-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/185396-molding-dough-compound.html
  

  
 

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