Epistane / 11 oxo possible first time cycle. Advice needed.

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    Epistane / 11 oxo possible first time cycle. Advice needed.


    Hey all, Iím a first time poster but I have been viewing this forum for some time now. I think I am finally ready to try something. This will be my first PH so if someone who knows a lot and is willing to give me some extra advice through pms it would be very much appreciated.

    Background: I am 23 years old, 5í11 and about 210 lbs. My body fat is probably around 15%. I have been eating well and lifting serious for the past 3 years. I have cut before using diet and cardio but I always lose too much muscle.

    Goal: I have hit a wall with my gains and hoping a PH can push me through it. I am looking to cut/recomp. I donít want to lose a ton of weight, maybe like 10-15 lbs and I obviously want to keep my muscle.
    Plan: I probably have more research to do but I have been researching for the last year on and off. I plan on running havoc along with 11 oxo.I plan on running both for 5 or 6 weeks ( need advice) and nolvadex for 5 weeks.
    2 weeks Pre-cycle: CEL cycle assist (through entire cycle / PCT)
    Cycle: RPN Havoc, Ergopharm 11 oxo
    PCT: Nolvadex, Erase
    Do I need a test booster as well or does erase have a good enough test booster and cortisol blocker.
    Also Iíve heard mixed feelings about an AI on epi but from what im reading it doesnít seem necessary.

    Concerns: My main concern is hair loss and gyno. I read the hair loss sticky and I am leaning towards finasteride but I havenít see a lot of people using this in there logs or anything like that. Can anyone recommend something for hair loss prevention. I donít have any signs or thinning but I donít want to start seeing that.

    If anyone has a very good understanding of this stack and/or sees something I am missing plz speak up. I would really appreciate it if someone was willing to talk to me in an instant message type thing as well. I just want to make sure I really understand this as best I can.
    I know you are not supposed to recommend sites and places to get these supplements but can someone recommend me a different forum that does allow discussion about where to get these.

    Thanks

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    I'm kinda noob so plz correct me whoever, but I have done 2 cycles, last one was SD->Epi, and I'm planning on doing another this winter.

    The pattern baldness, from what I hear, only occurs in those already genetically predisposed, if it occurs at all. I am not, but I was paranoid about this so I started my last cycle with finasteride preloaded and continued taking. The reason I stopped was because I got a minor gyno flare-up and, after checking a physicians PDR, saw that indeed one of the side effects of finasteride/dutasteride is gynecomastia! I believe it goes something like this: if you block 5a-reductase, you are effectively eliminating one of the places that that your androgens (which acutely have been increased by PHs) can go. This can then "force" more androgens into estrogenic conversion. I am not sure how much this applies to PH use, especially since SD supposedly doesn't aromatize, and as for Epi -- some people say it even treats gyno.

    Not to hijack but for my next cycle I was looking into a transdermal or forma stanzol for E/P control during cycle (and perhaps extend into PCT). I'm hoping this will minimize any possibility of gyno from multiple mechanisms. Other than that, I'm planning on DAA/Erase/Clomid for PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDiocre View Post
    I'm kinda noob so plz correct me whoever, but I have done 2 cycles, last one was SD->Epi, and I'm planning on doing another this winter.

    The pattern baldness, from what I hear, only occurs in those already genetically predisposed, if it occurs at all. I am not, but I was paranoid about this so I started my last cycle with finasteride preloaded and continued taking. The reason I stopped was because I got a minor gyno flare-up and, after checking a physicians PDR, saw that indeed one of the side effects of finasteride/dutasteride is gynecomastia! I believe it goes something like this: if you block 5a-reductase, you are effectively eliminating one of the places that that your androgens (which acutely have been increased by PHs) can go. This can then "force" more androgens into estrogenic conversion. I am not sure how much this applies to PH use, especially since SD supposedly doesn't aromatize, and as for Epi -- some people say it even treats gyno.

    Not to hijack but for my next cycle I was looking into a transdermal or forma stanzol for E/P control during cycle (and perhaps extend into PCT). I'm hoping this will minimize any possibility of gyno from multiple mechanisms. Other than that, I'm planning on DAA/Erase/Clomid for PCT.
    Thats good to know, thanks for the reply. Definitely don't want to take something else to possibly give gyno lol. Anyone else able to confirm this info?

    Curious though, Did you use an AI on epi? once the gyno flared up what did you do?
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    what doses are you planning on running the epi and 11oxo at?
    VO2 Max = 58.75mL/kg/min
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    Quote Originally Posted by heebs10 View Post
    what doses are you planning on running the epi and 11oxo at?
    X2, list the doses, cycle supports and PCT. Than we can tweak things for you. Epi & 11 oxo will make a great cutting/recomp cycle.
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    I did an 11oxo/Epi for my first cycle... leaned me out nice... no AI needed, added a tbooster to your pct and dont start the erase till the end of week 2 of PCT.

    I ran
    0/30/30/30/30 epi
    300/450/450/450/450 11oxo

    was a nice first cycle
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    I would personally bump it up to 40....it's the sweet spot for epi!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhikart

    Thats good to know, thanks for the reply. Definitely don't want to take something else to possibly give gyno lol. Anyone else able to confirm this info?

    Curious though, Did you use an AI on epi? once the gyno flared up what did you do?
    Yeah, on cycle I spot treated with Letro, a powerful AI. 2.5mg and tapered to 1.25. Letros one of the best options once the gyno actually occurs, but prophylactic use is overkill - you do need SOME estro for muscle growth, and other things.
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    These are not set in stone, so plz give advice. If i have chosen a brand that blows, please please tell me, i dont care about price i care about quality in this case...

    Cel cycle assist: 2 weeks prior till done with pct - 8 capsules/day

    RPN Havoc: 30/30/40/40/50?/0/0/0/0/0
    E-Pharm 11-oxo: 300/300/450/450/450/0/0/0/0/0

    PCT
    Nolvadex generic: 0/0/0/0/0/40/20/20/10/10
    Athletix Titanium: 0/0/0/0/0/4/4/4/4/4
    PES Erase: 0/0/0/0/0/1/1/3/3/3

    I see so much mixed information on my research, so Ill see what y'all say directly to me.
    1. AI, I see alot of mixed info, is it safer to just get the thing?
    2. I will take a multi vit/fish oil everyday like usuall.
    3. Anyone who has alot of experience willing to instant message chat with me on skype or something, not a phone call. *cough gymrat827* u seem to know alot lol.

    Anything im missing plz let me know, Thanks again!
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    most are gonna tell u that u are too young to do a cycle. u could probably break ur plateau by changing ur routine or diet or both. but, finasteride wont have any effect on epistane or any other hormone that doesn't aromatise via 5-a reductase. u wont go bald unless u are genetically susceptible to it. look at the pros who have all their hair. i've never lost any hair. some complain about the new havoc. ive been on ep-stane for 2 weeks today @45mg and i'm up 10lbs. i'm not using any other supps, so i'd say this brand is legit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelhead View Post
    most are gonna tell u that u are too young to do a cycle. u could probably break ur plateau by changing ur routine or diet or both. but, finasteride wont have any effect on epistane or any other hormone that doesn't aromatise via 5-a reductase. u wont go bald unless u are genetically susceptible to it. look at the pros who have all their hair. i've never lost any hair. some complain about the new havoc. ive been on ep-stane for 2 weeks today @45mg and i'm up 10lbs. i'm not using any other supps, so i'd say this brand is legit.
    I know I could break my plateau through other ways but from what I have read, 23 doesn't sound to young. I don't know if I am genetically susceptible to baldness, I really don't want to find out lol. I know the pros are not bald for the most part but who knows what they are taking. What have you heard about the new havoc? I might look into that brand.

    Thanks for the response.
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    if you can bump up the 11-0x0 dose... it would be expensive but I know next time I run it, I am going to go to 900
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhikart View Post
    . *cough gymrat827* u seem to know alot lol.

    PM me your final layout for the cycle, supports, pct. We will make proper adjustments.
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    bah, need more posts to send pms
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    If anyone wants to chat later today on skype or something, my name is zhikart1. Not a phone call just IM. Thanks (yes posting back to back cause i want 7 posts).
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    keep posting away, lots of sections on this site.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhikart View Post
    I know I could break my plateau through other ways but from what I have read, 23 doesn't sound to young. I don't know if I am genetically susceptible to baldness, I really don't want to find out lol. I know the pros are not bald for the most part but who knows what they are taking. What have you heard about the new havoc? I might look into that brand.

    Thanks for the response.
    i've just read that some people are claiming the havoc is underdosed. i haven't tried it. I am not sayin you are too young. i tend to take high doses of the strongest sh1t i can get my hands on. of course i am probably a bad influence. LOL seriously though, i havent done any steroids in 5 years. i've tried all the old school PH's and i can say epistane is the real deal. i'm not havin any bad sides and i'm blowin up man. only change in diet i have made is drinking extra milk. i worked triceps last night and i thought the back of my arm was gonna pop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelhead View Post
    i've just read that some people are claiming the havoc is underdosed. i haven't tried it. I am not sayin you are too young. i tend to take high doses of the strongest sh1t i can get my hands on. of course i am probably a bad influence. LOL seriously though, i havent done any steroids in 5 years. i've tried all the old school PH's and i can say epistane is the real deal. i'm not havin any bad sides and i'm blowin up man. only change in diet i have made is drinking extra milk. i worked triceps last night and i thought the back of my arm was gonna pop.
    Nice, I can't wait to start. I might try e-stane in that case. Changed my dosing plan let me know what yall think.

    Pre 2 weeks
    cel cycle assist 8pills/day through pct.

    Epi
    30/40/40/40/40/50
    11oxo
    00/00/375/450/450/525/525

    nolva
    40/30/20/10
    Forma stanzol
    00/00/10/10/8/8/6/4/4---total pumps a day, half am/half pm. take a shower before applying it
    HCGenerate
    5/5/5/5-caps a day
    Vit C
    3000mg---1000mg 3x a day for 40 days

    Let me know what you think, Will be on skype in like 2 hrs for the rest of the night hopefully, looking for different peoples opinions.
    Thanks
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    So I have ordered

    2 bottles Epi-strong
    2 Cel cycle assist
    1 HCGenerate
    1 forma stanzol
    80 10mg Nolvadex tablets
    1 Orange Triad multi Vit
    Jack3d (for PCT)
    2 (120 Caps) primaforce cissus (joint support)
    Haven't Ordered 11 oxo cause I still am sketchy about it. Would need 3 bottles and its kinda pricey, Would it be worth it?

    Does this stuff look legit and am I forgetting anything. I was thinking of gettting letro just to have on the side but I dunno.

    Thanks again
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhikart View Post
    So I have ordered

    2 bottles Epi-strong
    2 Cel cycle assist
    1 HCGenerate
    1 forma stanzol
    80 10mg Nolvadex tablets
    1 Orange Triad multi Vit
    Jack3d (for PCT)
    2 (120 Caps) primaforce cissus (joint support)
    Haven't Ordered 11 oxo cause I still am sketchy about it. Would need 3 bottles and its kinda pricey, Would it be worth it?

    Does this stuff look legit and am I forgetting anything. I was thinking of gettting letro just to have on the side but I dunno.

    Thanks again
    Makings for a sick cycle + easy PCT IMO. If you run the Epi as recommended above, I don't know how necessary the 11-oxo is, esp for first cycle. Good luck, have fun!
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    11-oxo is never necessary but I liked it on my first run (which was als epi).
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    possibly going to try CEL furuza instead of 11-oxo. Any opinions as to what makes a better cutting stack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhikart View Post
    possibly going to try CEL furuza instead of 11-oxo. Any opinions as to what makes a better cutting stack
    if you wanna shell out the money to run the furaza properly (minimum 300 mg a day) then the furaza should be pretty fun. One negative about the 11 oxo and epi together is you will be really really dry and it may bother your joints
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    Quote Originally Posted by darsh89

    if you wanna shell out the money to run the furaza properly (minimum 300 mg a day) then the furaza should be pretty fun. One negative about the 11 oxo and epi together is you will be really really dry and it may bother your joints
    I agree, ran them both and I had very bad joint pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by darsh89 View Post
    if you wanna shell out the money to run the furaza properly (minimum 300 mg a day) then the furaza should be pretty fun. One negative about the 11 oxo and epi together is you will be really really dry and it may bother your joints
    I think I'm going to order the furaza by CEL. I keep seeing different dosings in logs usually around 200mg and starting the third week. How would you dose it with an epi cycle of 30/40/40/40/40/50.
    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhikart View Post
    I think I'm going to order the furaza by CEL. I keep seeing different dosings in logs usually around 200mg and starting the third week. How would you dose it with an epi cycle of 30/40/40/40/40/50.
    Thanks.
    Run it the entire 6 weeks starting at a minimum of 300 mg and dont be surprised if you need to work up to 400 mg. Its a great compound when ran correctly, but at 200 I honestly feel its a complete waste. I also feel running it only 4 weeks is also a waste.

    I would also start your epi at 40 as well.
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    K I have ordered katanadrol v2.0 1 bottle, ill run it at 300.
    I just got an order declined from my RPN havoc order though, thats the 2nd company that has declined me a day later.

    So what I have coming in the mail:
    1 Katanadrol V2.0
    1 Forma Stanzol
    1 HCGenerate
    8 Nolvadex
    2 Primaforce Cissus
    1 Orange Triad
    2 Cel Cycle Assist
    2 Vitamin C

    Things I need because they get declined!:
    Tried 2 Epi-strongs - declined for unknown reasons
    Tried 2 RPN Havoc - Declined for unknown reasons

    Any ideas, gonna suck if I get all this cycle stuff with no cycle!
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    contact said company, find out why the decline..
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhikart View Post
    K I have ordered katanadrol v2.0 1 bottle, ill run it at 300.
    I just got an order declined from my RPN havoc order though, thats the 2nd company that has declined me a day later.

    So what I have coming in the mail:
    1 Katanadrol V2.0
    1 Forma Stanzol
    1 HCGenerate
    8 Nolvadex
    2 Primaforce Cissus
    1 Orange Triad
    2 Cel Cycle Assist
    2 Vitamin C

    Things I need because they get declined!:
    Tried 2 Epi-strongs - declined for unknown reasons
    Tried 2 RPN Havoc - Declined for unknown reasons

    Any ideas, gonna suck if I get all this cycle stuff with no cycle!
    Why are they getting declined? Do you live in the US?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    Why are they getting declined? Do you live in the US?
    yeah, i am know the company that has it in stock, everyone else has ordered a ton of epi strong and got their package. If they cant sell you epi strong they should have a dam good reason not to.

    Give them a call
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    I got it to work, but the estimated shipping is nov, 1st . I live in northern Alaska
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhikart View Post
    I got it to work, but the estimated shipping is nov, 1st . I live in northern Alaska
    That explains things a bit.
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    Bah another order problem lol. Forma stanzol by mr supps is out of stock. Should I go with erase now? and if i do go with erase can I ditch the Vitamin C? Id rather go with a Formastane product, whats good?

    EDIT: Think I'm just going to order erase and start it the third week of PCT. Big question I have is I know you need the AI to stop estrogen after the SERM is finished, but after the AI is finished what is stopping estrogen? After the AI is the idea that your hormones are back in balance?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhikart View Post
    Bah another order problem lol. Forma stanzol by mr supps is out of stock. Should I go with erase now? and if i do go with erase can I ditch the Vitamin C? Id rather go with a Formastane product, whats good?

    EDIT: Think I'm just going to order erase and start it the third week of PCT. Big question I have is I know you need the AI to stop estrogen after the SERM is finished, but after the AI is finished what is stopping estrogen? After the AI is the idea that your hormones are back in balance?
    if you dont wanna wait on the forma then erase will suffice just fine. You also wont need the vitamin c after. Erase will act as an ai to reduce estrogen upon stopping the serm. You taper the ai down so that your body's estrogen levels balance out and you dont need anything after the erase.

    So start it the 3rd week of nolva and run it 3/3/2/2/1/1 if you want to use the whole bottle
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    Is epi strong a clone to epistane? N which is better in your opinion?
    I ordered mine n its the epistane black label whats the difference
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    Quote Originally Posted by fame126 View Post
    Is epi strong a clone to epistane? N which is better in your opinion?
    I ordered mine n its the epistane black label whats the difference
    Quality wise I do not know because I am new to PH, but epi-strong is 15mg per pill instead of 10mg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fame126 View Post
    Is epi strong a clone to epistane? N which is better in your opinion?
    I ordered mine n its the epistane black label whats the difference
    epi is epi, same compound different brand, some have a different amount per capsule
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    Just got my bottle in amd it seems a little shady. Can someone tell me what the pills look like? Mine are clear caps with an off white powder. The label to bottle looks like it was heat shrunk onto the bottle. Help please i wanna start now
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    Quote Originally Posted by fame126 View Post
    Just got my bottle in amd it seems a little shady. Can someone tell me what the pills look like? Mine are clear caps with an off white powder. The label to bottle looks like it was heat shrunk onto the bottle. Help please i wanna start now
    if it was sealed you should be good to go
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    Quote Originally Posted by fame126 View Post
    Is epi strong a clone to epistane? N which is better in your opinion?
    I ordered mine n its the epistane black label whats the difference
    Epi strong is just as good as any other epi clone....except it's 15mg per pill and 39.99.
  

  
 

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