Bulk/Cut, Diet, etc.
- 08-15-2004, 03:21 PM
Bulk/Cut, Diet, etc.
Ahhh... I'm frustrated. I've been thinking of cutting for a while (not fat, but can't see my abs) but recently talked to a friend who did a cycle similar to the one I've been planning: 1-test cyp, clen, and tri-max. He lost something like 33lbs for him to finally see his abs, and keep in mind... he wasn't even that fat originally.
So here's my question... With a cycle like I described, could you just... bulk really lean? Would it, for example, cause you to shed fat while putting on muscle? Granted it'd take more than one cycle before I'd see my abs, but I'd rather do that than lose so much hard-earned muscle.
What I've had some people recommend (not sure if I agree with it) was to simply eat less and take casein and glutamine to stay anti-catabolic while on clen and tri-max and just skip 1-test altogethor.
- 08-15-2004, 06:25 PM
I would definitely agree with the latter...
I've always found upping my meals to 5-6 a day, keeping my protein high, carbs/fats low, while hitting cardio 4x/week @ 30-45 minutes a day was the only way for me to lose a steady 2 lbs a week for 25 weeks. That was what I basically did to drop my 53 lbs last year.
When you get down to that 13.5-14% mark, then you're only 1.5-2% away from seeing your abs. Your abs start coming in at around the low 12% mark..."coming in" as in you can barely see them...
Add a little clen and trimax, keep it clean, and keep the cardio steady and I'd say you'd be set if you're an endo...if you're a ecto/meso, then I'd just back off of the tri-max and cardio a little, and I'd think you'd do well with that...
Just my $0.02...
08-16-2004, 07:46 AM
I got down from 12-14% to about 8-9% with just diet and training/ cardio alone. Strength actually went up a little, I would say little to no lbm lost. It's difficult but it can be done.
08-16-2004, 09:50 AM
It all depends on your own genetic set point. If you have a low/mod setpoint then it would be very possible to get down to single digits while still gaining some strength and possibly a little Lbm. But if your prone to carry your weight around 12-15% as some are, then it will become increasingly difficult. Anytime you drop below your setpoint, your body is going to fight you and one either needs to sacrifice lbm with the fat, use androgens, or use other potent fat burners.
My advice is to use the 1-test, trimax and clen and focus on getting cut up. ONce your as lean as you want or close to be....then slowly clean bulk. Adding strength/muscle on trimax is a NO NO. It just wont happen, trust me....read the damn trimax thread and you will understand.
08-16-2004, 09:52 AM
I haven't used Juice/PH/PS, but from everything I have read, learned, and seen... it is FAR BETTER to use them on a calorie surplus. The only exception is contest prep.
In my opinion, I would clean bulk and increase that protein intake to 2g per lb.
08-16-2004, 10:49 AM
Like Scottyo said, read the Trimax thread that stuff is no joke. If you are looking to keep and possibly gain strength, it just isn't going to happen on Trimax. Try the clen, and stay strict to the diet, and cardio plan.
08-16-2004, 10:52 AM
If youre cutting with a caloric deficit, then androgens will help stop you from losing muscle mass.Originally Posted by pu12en12g
08-16-2004, 10:53 AM
It depends entirely on one's goals. For bulking with anabolics a calorie surplus is a must; however, when cutting, anabolics are highly desirable for muscle sparing during the caloric deficit. Without anabolics, muscle will be lost with the fat during any cut.Originally Posted by pu12en12g
08-16-2004, 11:02 AM
Don't take trimax without a strong androgen. You will burn through muscle so fast, you won't notice it until it's gone & all your lifts go way down. I used it with M40hn & still lost some muscle despite a perfect diet.
08-16-2004, 11:38 AM
Yes, but there are other ways to achieve this, while allowing you to get the best bang-for-the-buck from your choice of Androgen (during a calorie surplus)Originally Posted by RobInKuwait
08-16-2004, 12:50 PM
Sounds like tri-max isn't really worth it for the most part. So what do you guys think... Run a 1-test cycle for around 8-12 weeks, and use clen 2 on 2 off? High protein, lower carbs/fat? Would glutamine and casein still be useful for this? My friend was recommending I take casein, but I figured that'd just give me a further calorie surplus and would be kind of pointless.
08-16-2004, 01:09 PM
08-16-2004, 02:18 PM
08-16-2004, 03:32 PM
Most people feel that keeping protein high will help spare muscle. Calories have to be cut somewhere though, so carbs are cut. Lowering carbs also has other benefits in fat loss as well. Of course, this is for a cut...you'd not cut carbs during a bulk.Originally Posted by pu12en12g
08-18-2004, 05:46 PM
It really comes down to that good ole' old skool mentality -- if you're cutting, you're cutting. If you're bulking, bulk. So you lose a little mass while on Tri-Max. You're going to anyway when you cut, maybe not as much as you would on T-Max, but you're cutting. Worry about bulking later.
I would suggest tapering up to 2-3 caps a day of Tri-Max, and add about 5mg of M1T for 4 weeks. You won't get much sides, if at all from the M1T, and you're just using it to stave off any muscle loss...
That's actually what I'm doing right now...
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