trenazone + epistane OR... (dermacrine?)

[Flabby]

Hey everyone,

I've got a trenazone / Havoc (epistane) stack headed my way in the mail, but I'm having second thoughts on doing a methylated compound at this stage of my life and training. It also seems like a pretty intense stack in general with potential for serious shutdown.

Any opinions? Am I being too cautious? Should I stack with something like dermacrine since trenazone is known to cause libido issues?

I'm 30 years old, 6'0" 190 lbs about 15% bodyfat. I have minimal previous experience with PHs, test boosters and herbal anabolics. I've been making slow and steady progress from my fairly untrained state roughly one year ago, but looking to get an extra boost to achieve my goal of dunking a basketball (add strength, power, aggression, continue to cut body fat).

Started with Activate Xtreme / Triazole stack.. had a good time but nothing earth shattering.
Then tried, at various different stages:
"Trifecta Stack" by LG... meh
DAA and Erase ... felt good, nothing too crazy though
AH/AL cycle (one bottle of each) ... felt great and cut about 8 pounds while keeping strength. not sure how much of that was the AH/AL though, to be honest.
DAA/Testopro/HGHUp/Anabeta stack (current)... probably the best results so far, feeling quite good and hitting PRs all over the place.

 

[Flabby]

Anyone?

 

[laserbluess]

i would say that if you are still hitting PR's with the anabeta/DAA route then stay on that for 8 weeks or so and see how it treats you. making steady gains naturally is more beneficial to you in the long run because they will be MUCH easier to keep.

as for the trenazone / epi stack, that is pretty strong. really depends how you dose each of them and for how long. were you planning on a 6 week run? If this is your first ph / oral steroid then i would say just go with epi by itself. you should see really good gains with it, dry lean mass, with good strength increase too.

once you find out how you react to epi, then maybe throw in the trenazone during a second cycle!

 

[laserbluess]

oh, forgot to mention, dermacrine (or the new RS transderm) would be a great addition to stack with epi. i used dermacrine and really enjoyed it because i was not tired throughout my entire superdrol / epi cycle and my libido stayed fairly the same which was nice.

RS transderm is new, so i have not seen anyone run it yet but i do know it has twice the servings of Dermacrine and dries faster supposedly. if you want to go with the original dermacrine you can ask any of the Primordial performance reps for help. for some reason they seem to have a stash of it that you can only get if you ask for it....

 

[gymrat827]

What kind of dosage are you planning with the Epi/tren?? Tren (oral or topical) will shut you down pretty hard compared to what you have ran in the past. Transderm will helpout preventing this and should keep most of the tren sides in check. Prolactin, poor sleep, aggression will still be there tho. Need2sleep will help you with zzz's, p5p & vitex for prolactin.

You can just run the havoc and save the tren for down the road or stack them. If you do end up running the stack transderm should be tossed in as well.

 

[Flabby]

Thanks for the comments guys. I was probably going to go with a low/minimum dose on both to make it last longer and avoid sides.

Epi definitely seems to have the effects I'm after - strength, aggression, recomping, and no loss of libido - but the liver toxicity is freaking me out a little bit right now.... I might just save both for a time when I feel like I'm plateuing and ready to take it to the next level.

 

[laserbluess]

unless you already have extreme liver issues, its really not a huge deal. trust me (or just research it) the liver is extremely durable and will heal itself. a 5 - 6 week run of an oral steroid is nothing compared to the amount of drinking one might do in college lol.

 

[Resolve]

I'm on Trenazone/Epi right now. In my 2nd week of a 6wk course. Sides are minimal; just some back pumps and slightly increased BP, both of which I'm managing with other supps. Up 8lbs so far.

For a first cycle, I could see this being ok, as long as you're cautious with your doses and keep an eye out for side effects.

 

[gymrat827]

Thanks for the comments guys. I was probably going to go with a low/minimum dose on both to make it last longer and avoid sides.

Epi definitely seems to have the effects I'm after - strength, aggression, recomping, and no loss of libido - but the liver toxicity is freaking me out a little bit right now.... I might just save both for a time when I feel like I'm plateuing and ready to take it to the next level.

I think your overestimating how toxic the Epi will be. As mentioned, the amount of drinking one may do during their younger years will be 10x worse than a 4-6wk meth PH cycle. Especially if your running liver supports.

How low of a dose do you mean?? 30/30/30/30 epi and 1ml of tren for 30days??

 

[rulk22]

Using 2 topicals might be a challenge to use at the same time( trenazone/dermacrine ). Epi and Dermacrine sounds like a great cycle though, even though there is a methylated compound in it. Anrohard could be a worthy substitute for epi.

 

[Flabby]

Thanks for the additional opinions, guys!

Based on what you guys said and after reading Patrick Arnold's review of OTC prohormones, I'm thinking about running the Epistane first, then trenazone + something more androgenic/libidinous (like AndroHard perhaps) at a later date.

I appreciate the reality check with regard to liver toxicity - my liver is good and I lead a pretty healthy lifestyle. I indulge in some wine or beer with dinner most nights, but almost never to the degree where I'm hung over or whatever. I've never had anything resembling bad cholesterol, partly due to being vegetarian through most of high school and college. I could cut drinking out for a month if necessary. Usually I smoke greens more than I drink anyway.

I've got a bachelor party lined up for the end of this month, though, so maybe I should wait until after that to start the cycle? Or would ~3 beers be ok?

Also, if I'm currently running DAA/Testopro/HGHup/Anabeta, can i jump into the cycle straight from there to the epistane or would I be better off getting off everything before I start? The safe answer to that question is obvious, but I'm wondering how big a concern it really is... I don't want to lose any of the progress I've made so far or get demotivated/frustrated...

 

[Flabby]

p.s. Havoc dosage would probably be 30/30/30/30, though maybe I could try 20/30/30/40?

I got Cycle Support and Erase in the same order... Cycle support would be started a few days in advance and run through the cycle, but not sure about Erase. Save for PCT in its entirety, or try tapering up with 1 near the end of the cycle to a full 3 caps in PCT? I could also cut my HGHup, Testopro, Anabeta, and DAA out now and save the rest for PCT. I have a little over half a bottle of each left. Thoughts?

 

[rulk22]

Thanks for the additional opinions, guys!

Based on what you guys said and after reading Patrick Arnold's review of OTC prohormones, I'm thinking about running the Epistane first, then trenazone + something more androgenic/libidinous (like AndroHard perhaps) at a later date. Nice.I appreciate the reality check with regard to liver toxicity - my liver is good and I lead a pretty healthy lifestyle. I indulge in some wine or beer with dinner most nights, but almost never to the degree where I'm hung over or whatever. I've never had anything resembling bad cholesterol, partly due to being vegetarian through most of high school and college. I could cut drinking out for a month if necessary. Usually I smoke greens more than I drink anyway. Again nice ; )
I've got a bachelor party lined up for the end of this month, though, so maybe I should wait until after that to start the cycle? Or would ~3 beers be ok? Get the party out of the way and then start, thats what id do.

Also, if I'm currently running DAA/Testopro/HGHup/Anabeta, can i jump into the cycle straight from there to the epistane or would I be better off getting off everything before I start? The safe answer to that question is obvious, but I'm wondering how big a concern it really is... I don't want to lose any of the progress I've made so far or get demotivated/frustrated...

finish this up at the end of the month and I dont see any problem jumping into your cycle.

 

[Flabby]

Appreciate the advice Rulk! I think I'll probably do that.