PCT... SERMs vs. AIs
- 08-09-2004, 08:15 PM
PCT... SERMs vs. AIs
Ok, so post cycle youve got craploads of estrogen. So you take an AI... this in turn lowers SHBG... which in turn incorrectly signals that everything is A-OK, when in fact total test is still low. So instead of that, we have a SERM. Raises SHBG, but also raises total test.
Assuming that uber brief description is correct, then wouldnt 2 weeks of a SERM tapered into 2 weeks of an AI be ideal for PCT?
- 08-11-2004, 12:31 AM
You would think, but SERM's have such a long t1/2 that at 2 wk's your loaded and no longer need the AI, serms tapper themselfs. Estrogen will still be relatively low in spite of increased test production. Teslac, a "steroidal" is an exception, the effects add up but I could never take enough to see it happen at 250/day for 2 or 3 months. If you do it anyway, make the AI a non-steroidal w/ a very small attenuating dose or, I've never tried it, but maybe 6.25mg examestane EOD would do it.
- 08-11-2004, 03:02 AM
Well, tamoxifen has a half life of like 9 days, right? So what about ~60mg nolva once a week for 2 weeks, followed by an AI?
I keep harping on the AI/SERM thing because it seems like neither of them are ideal on their own, but combined they could work wonders.
Have you got any links to general information on SERMs and AIs? i.e. mechanisms of action, serm receptor regulation, etc. I'd love to learn a bit more.
08-11-2004, 10:25 PM
Well... if you must know! SERM's act as false substrates w/ the binding protein (AKA: the estrogen receptor) that incorporates estrogen into DNA. AI's inhibit the P450 enzyme system that utilizes aromatase to generate estrogen from common steroidal precursors. I have no links, but info should be easy to find. You could probably get all your specific questions answered from the PDR monographs of each drug. And you are right, combos are the way to go, although nonsteroidal AI's compromise the effectiveness of SERM's. I just always try to avoid SERM's untill they are really required cause they are more toxic than you realize. They can **** you up from your liver to your eyesight and beyond.
08-12-2004, 12:07 AM
Thanks for the replies, i appreciate it.
But... whats a PDR monograph? And i had the understanding that SERMs werent dangerous when used acutely. Is that naive?
08-12-2004, 12:12 AM
Dr. D, where are you finding this information about SERMs being dangerous? Only relating to nolva, I've read studies that show its relatively nontoxic (in cases where it is used as experimental gyno treatment). For example, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=12053091 shows that it is relatively safe for lipids and cholesterol values.
I'm just wondering if I've missed some studies/information, because I've read numerous times you saying how you use SERMS as a last resort. Not attacking here, just wondering, because I was contemplating using a longterm, low dose nolva treatment to see if I could help alleviate (or abolish, knock on wood) my pubescent gyno problems, and want to gather ALL information I can before I embark on the treatment.
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