Gyno, or just stubborn fat?
- 08-05-2004, 06:01 PM
Gyno, or just stubborn fat?
I've had these "bitch tits" and love handles since puberty. When I was a late teen, I lost a lot of weight except in these places. It is very puffy around the nipple area, but very soft, not like the lumps some describe as gyno. I want to strart my first cycle of 1-test and 4-AD to bulk up but I'm afraid of making it worse. Could this possibly just be stubborn fat that cutting will cure, or am I destined for surgery and shouldn't touch PH's?
- 08-05-2004, 06:18 PM
It's not gyno, not without use of hormones.
When you bulk, you usually bulk all over. You may want to cut these problem areas up before trying to bulk. You want to slim the adipose and fill in the muscle behind it. Look into cardio and specific workouts. 4 AD/ 1 T doesn't have to be a bulking cycle if diet/ training is right and the 4 AD isn't taken in large amounts. If your really wanting to loose adipose, look into more supplements that focus on fat loss.
- 08-05-2004, 06:21 PM
- 6'1" 259 lbs.
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Originally Posted by Doko
08-05-2004, 10:43 PM
It could be gyno, it's not uncommon to get gyno without using hormones. A lot of teens develop it in puberty, & for some it stays into adulthood. If it is gyno, a cycle will aggravate it. Get a doc's opinion. If it is gyno, maybe he can prescribe andactrim (topical DHT) or something for it.
If its just fat, try topical yohimbine like lipoderm. If it's gyno, some guys have had success reducing it by making a homebrewed andactrim. Get some 5AA powder (non-methy & make a loacalized transdermal lotion/liquid to apply to the area.
08-05-2004, 11:58 PM
If I was a doctor poking at my nipples how would I determine if it was gyno or fat? Are there symptomatic differences that point one direction or the other?
I ask because I have neither insurance nor $$ to get a professional diagnosis...
08-06-2004, 12:30 AM
I may get flamed for this, but gyno's end result is fat. Regardless of how it was taken on, through poor diet, hormones, etc.. the end result is excess fat/ adipose tissue. Extra fat in certain areas ie. love handles or bitch tits need to be addressed before bulking unless you want to bulk those areas too. If I am wrong, I apologize.
08-06-2004, 02:19 AM
Incorrect. True gyno is a buildup of tissue which cannot be burned off through diet or exercise. If you have it, surgery is the only way to not have it.
08-06-2004, 10:52 AM
That is ridiculous. Gyno is not fat, it is an enlargement of the mammary gland. When you have surgery, they take the gland out.Originally Posted by D_town
08-06-2004, 06:40 PM
Well, my foot's officially in my mouth. Some things I definately need to research more before making a reply when it comes to things I don't know too much about. Regardless, hopefully it's just stubborn fat, being that it's man boobs and love handles. In that case, I would still suggest cutting those areas before any bulking be done. JMHO
08-06-2004, 06:49 PM
Hey bro, coming from experience here usually if you have gyno you can stick your finger into your areola/nipple area and feel a distinct lump which isn't muscle and definitely isn't fat (should be hard - maybe even sensitive if you aggrovated it recently via PH/AAS use). If it's real gyno you should be able to find it right off. Theres been some studies (search pubmed) on nolvadex with people who suffer from gyno and some studies report up to 75% reduction of lumps over a three month usage of tamoxifen citrate at 20mg a dose. Despite what some people seem to think, even if you had mild gyno you could still do non-aromatizing cycles (1-test, M1T, etc.) or run a low dosage of nolva to prevent irritation.
08-06-2004, 08:26 PM
I do believe real gyno can have either the hard lump mostly associated with AAS use directly under the nipple, or can be a general, well...mass...of tissue.
I've been doing alot of research with tamoxifen use for treatment of gyno lately. The general consensus around here is that once you get gyno and it becomes fibrous, you have it until surgery. Now, alot of the studies out there deal purely with pubescent gyno in adolescent boys and treatment with tamox; I dont know if this is because the gyno has not become "fibrous" or whether or not long-term gyno can be treated this way. The same studies have been done on old men as well, and have seen similar results, but I do not exactly know much about geriatric gyno, other than that it is due to the lowering ratio of T to E.
Basically, the majority of cases show at least a 50% reduction in size after 2-12 month treatment with tamox (doses range from 10mg/day in one study to 40mg/day in another). In the majority of the studies, there were at least afew non-responders, as well as afew cases that had gyno recurrance at reevaluation after the study had been concluded. One study showed that "lump type" gyno responded better to tamoxifen treatment than "diffuse fatty" type(1). In, I believe, almost all the studies where patients had pain or soreness associated with their gyno, treatment with tamox relieved the symptoms.
Also, these studies show no real problems with longterm use. One study assessed the longterm affects of tamox and the associated cholesterol/lipid values(2). It shows that basically long term use of tamox lowers cholesterol slightly but not significantly.
Four other tamox treatments of gyno studies have been placed into a chart, found within this article(3). Look towards the middle of the page and it will ask whether you want to display the chart in the same window or a new one. It shows the dosage of tamox per day, the duration of treatment, the number of patients and the relative effectiveness. Overall, it seems the higher doses result in a 80% "success" rate, though the qualitative evaluation of "success" is unknown.
Personally, I am going to try a 2 month 30mg/day tamoxifen citrate (so 20mg tamox) to see if it will reduce my symptoms of gyno, which I believe are of the "diffuse fatty" type. At the moment I am unable to start my experiment, but I will update eventually when I have concluded it.
08-07-2004, 01:30 AM
The only proven effective way to treat gyno is through surgey to remove the gland. If Nolva was a cure-all for it, there would be a shortage. You may be able to shrink some of the fatty tissue from the area, but it will come back in time. I don't believe you will be able to shrink the gland.
If you go to a doctor who knows what he is doing, he will schedule you to take a mamogram to reveal if there is an actual lump. Old school docs who don't have knowledge in this area may suggest to up your cardio and lower your fat consumption, which will not get rid of it. It is rare, but some insurances may pay for the surgery if you are at some sort of risk, or have a history of breast cancer in your family.
There have been a few bro's here on this board who started threads about their experience with the surgey. I think Doberman was one, and there was another who had the surgery paid for through his insurance. Use the search function and you can easily find these posts.
08-07-2004, 11:00 PM
But besides going to see a Doctor, is there any particular suretale signs that will help me figure out if it's just fat as opposed to gyno fat? Like I said there definitely are no lumps... And how do Docs know the difference?
08-07-2004, 11:10 PM
Probably the most effective way, and positive way, to tell is by having a mamogram performed.Originally Posted by Doko
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