h-drol stano-drol stack, problems with saw palmetto

[SUPER8BALL]

im am planning on a h-drol stano-drol cycle, this is what i have planned as of now

Cycle assist	8	8	8	8	8	8	8	8	8	8	8	8	8
Taurine	5g	5g	5g	5g	5g	5g	5g	5g	5g	5g	5g	5g	5g
B6	600mg	600mg	600mg	600mg	600mg	600mg	600mg	600mg	600mg	600mg	600mg	600mg	600mg
Multi	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1
flax oil	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2
Fish oil	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2
h-drol	0	0	50mg	75mg	75mg	75mg	75mg	75mg	0	0	0	0	0
Stano-drol	0	0	300mg	450mg	600mg	600mg	600mg	600mg	0	0	0	0	0
Pct assist	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	4	4	4	4	4
Supp-ress- c	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	100mg	100mg	100mg	50mg
Nolva-dex	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	20mg	20mg	20mg	10mg	10mg
Forme stane	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	200mg	200mg	100mg-taper down slow

this is what i have planned as of now, i am 22 years old, lifting for 5 plus years, 5,8 186lbs.

my question is about the cycle assist, i am aware the stano-drol converts to dht, this means that the ingredients in the cycle assist will cause the stano-drol to pass through my system with little to no effect due to the fact that they compete for the same receptor, is their any thing that i can do to prevent this and are their other ingredients in the support supps that will cause problems(pct assist and cycle assist both) saw palmetto is the only on that i know of right now in the cycle assist that will cause problems competing for the same receptor as dht, i know their are other support supps that can be taken, any advice will be very appreciated!

 

[jbryand101b]

i havn't heard of any studies showing it was an antagonist in skeletal muscle, only the prostate, which is what you want.

 

[SUPER8BALL]

IT WAS JUST A CONCERN OF MINE, I WANT TO GET THE BEST OUT OF MY CYCLE. I WILL KEEP THE CYCLE ASSIST IN IF THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM BUT I LOOKED UP SAW PALMETTO AND DHT IN GOOGLE IT DOES SAY THAT THE COMPETE FOR THE SAME RECEPTOR.

 

[jbryand101b]

keep reading studies. androgen receptors in the receptors in the prostate. jesus.

 

[swollen87]

keep reading studies. androgen receptors in the receptors in the prostate. jesus.

you are wrong jbry


no your not jk... just wanted to say that:spam:

 

[jbryand101b]

i was getting read to bust out links to studies. :lol:

...couldn't help myself though....

Drugs Aging. 1996 Nov;9(5):379-95.

Serenoa repens (Permixon). A review of its pharmacology and therapeutic efficacy in benign prostatic hyperplasia.

Plosker GL, Brogden RN.

Adis International Limited, Auckland, New Zealand.

Serenoa repens (Permixon) has been available for several years for the treatment of men with benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). The drug is the n-hexane lipidosterolic extract of the dwarf American palm (also known as Serenoa repens aka saw palmetto) and is a complex mixture of various compounds.
A number of pharmacodynamic effects have been demonstrated with the lipidosterolic extract of Serenoa repens (LSESR), suggesting multiple mechanisms of action including in vitro inhibition of both type 1 and type 2 isoenzymes of 5 alpha-reductase and interference with binding of dihydrotestosterone to cytosolic androgen receptors in prostate cells.
In controlled clinical trials in men with BPH, oral administration of Serenoa repens 160 mg twice daily for 1 to 3 months was generally superior to placebo in improving subjective symptoms, such as dysuria, as well as objective parameters.
The frequency of nocturia was reduced by 33 to 74%, while urinary frequency during the day decreased by 11 to 43% and peak urinary flow rate increased by 26 to 50% with Serenoa repens. Corresponding values for placebo were 13 to 39%, 1 to 29% and 2 to 35%.
The only large comparative trial conducted to date, in which > 1000 men with moderate BPH were randomised to receive Serenoa repens 160 mg twice daily or finasteride 5 mg once daily for 6 months, demonstrated similar efficacy between the two drugs.
No statistically significant difference was demonstrated between treatment groups for improvement in patient self-rated quality-of-life scores and the primary end-point of objective symptom score; International Prostate Symptom Score improved by 37% with Serenoa repens compared with 39% with finasteride.
In much smaller comparative trials, few significant differences were demonstrated between Serenoa repens and alpha 1-receptor antagonists, and larger randomised trials of adequate duration are required to better compare the clinical efficacy of these drugs. The most frequently reported adverse events in clinical trials with Serenoa repens have been minor gastrointestinal problems (e.g. nausea and abdominal pain). In conclusion, Serenoa repens is well tolerated and has greater efficacy than placebo and similar efficacy to finasteride in improving symptoms in men with BPH.
Although there is a need for further comparative studies, particularly with alpha 2-receptor antagonists, available data indicate that Serenoa repens is a useful alternative to alpha 1-receptor antagonists and finasteride in the treatment of men with BPH.

(1) Prostate. 1999 Feb 15;38(3):208-15.

Saw palmetto extracts potently and noncompetitively inhibit human alpha1-adrenoceptors in vitro.

Goepel M, Hecker U, Krege S, Rubben H, Michel MC.
-------------------------------------------

like I had said, most data shows it is selective in that it binds to the ar in the prostate only, and also fibroblast, but not skeletal muscle.

 

[SUPER8BALL]

Thank you jbry