Critique Needed: 12 Weeks TBol or Epistane/Trenazone/Anavar

[illriginalize]

Hey guys, starting to plan out a cycle after I'm done cutting. Goal is for dry lean mass and strength.


12 Weeks total:


Tbol or Epistane: Weeks 1-6

Trenazone: Weeks 4-9

Anavar: 7-12

PCT: Nolvadex 40/40/20/20


Tbol: 30~50~30mg (raising/lowering by 10mg)

Anavar: 30~50~30mg (raising/lowering by 10mg)

Trenazone: 4~10~4 sprays (4, 8, 10, 8, 4)


I'm thinking if I go with Epistane, I will cycle that for 8 weeks, and I might possibly low dose T3 (12.5~25~50~25~12.5) and Clen (100mcg) for the first 8 weeks (Clen will be 2 on, 2 off, 2 on, or I might throw in some benadryl). Doubt 25mcg would be so catabolic that it would render the epistane useless.

I'm aware I'm taking two orals, people are going to complain about how toxic it is to the liver. I plan to pre-load on milk thistle 2 weeks prior to start of cycle and continue up to 2 weeks after end of PCT.

I might also throw in Bioforge V3 (test booster) from the start of PCT.

Don't know if it's worth mentioning since I always take these:

Flax seed oil

Fish oil

Multis

Bioperine

Creatine

Torrent (post workout supp)

Grape seed extract

MSM (joint support)

After T3 (if I end up adding it) I'll PCT thyroid support supps as well.


Also some of you will mention injecting.. specifically test. I'm not scared of needles.. rather I'm scared I'll some how mess up, hit a vein, or nerve, or jerk the needle while it's pinned into my meat and I end up tearing something.. which will then land me into the hospital at worst and last thing I need is to have any sort of negative reputation in this tiny ass town. Believe me... words spread like wild fires out here.

[illriginalize]

Bump!

[illriginalize]

Bump once again.. is my thread in the wrong section? Is the cycle a joke? Thought I'd get some input at least within a day =\

[laserbluess]

12 weeks worth of orals seems like a looooong time. 12 weeks of Test E would be more beneficial i would think. trenazone / dienolone is pretty harsh even though it says its not hepatoxic.

i think a good rule of thumb is to keep the orals to a maximum of 6 weeks (steroid / dose dependent of course).

[schwellington]

ok

if you run turinabol(tbol) 30 is to low, so is 50- i would run at least at 60 for 6 wks

secondly, your anavar dose is also very low-80-100mgs is preferred by most

finally, its pretty hard to hurt yourself pinning

[illriginalize]

12 weeks worth of orals seems like a looooong time. 12 weeks of Test E would be more beneficial i would think. trenazone / dienolone is pretty harsh even though it says its not hepatoxic.

i think a good rule of thumb is to keep the orals to a maximum of 6 weeks (steroid / dose dependent of course).

ok

if you run turinabol(tbol) 30 is to low, so is 50- i would run at least at 60 for 6 wks

secondly, your anavar dose is also very low-80-100mgs is preferred by most

finally, its pretty hard to hurt yourself pinning

So from what I'm getting in these two posts:

A. Drop T-Bol or Trenazone (would prefer to drop an oral over the transdermal)

B. And go with a higher dosage on the Anavar for 6 weeks straight


Personally I wanted the T-Bol for the size, Anavar for the strength and smaller gains in size + solidifying the T-Bol mass gains. Also wanted to use the trenazone as a bridge but I'm ok with dropping T-Bol.

[schwellington]

I would drop the tbol

run anavar for 6 weeks at 80-100mgs

use trenazone weeks 5-10 at 1.5mls a day


this wut i wouldz do

[schwellington]

run anavar for 6 weeks at 80-100mgs

use trenazone weeks 5-10 at 1.5mls a day

or

trenazone at 1.5 mls for weeks 1-4 and var at 80mgs week 3-8

this wut i wouldz do

[illriginalize]

run anavar for 6 weeks at 80-100mgs

use trenazone weeks 5-10 at 1.5mls a day

or

trenazone at 1.5 mls for weeks 1-4 and var at 80mgs week 3-8

this wut i wouldz do

Ok sounds good.



I'll also do a bit of research on injecting.. primarily the safety side of things. I wouldn't mind throwing in 250~500mg of test-sus per week (from start to finish). Even though I heard it can be one of the most painful injectables <_<;

[Yaz]

12 weeks worth of orals seems like a looooong time. 12 weeks of Test E would be more beneficial i would think. trenazone / dienolone is pretty harsh even though it says its not hepatoxic.

i think a good rule of thumb is to keep the orals to a maximum of 6 weeks (steroid / dose dependent of course).

- Not that big of problem, one is unmethylated and all the others have low hepatoxicity - mild to low impact on lipids except Anavar.

ok

if you run turinabol(tbol) 30 is to low, so is 50- i would run at least at 60 for 6 wks

secondly, your anavar dose is also very low-80-100mgs is preferred by most

finally, its pretty hard to hurt yourself pinning

I agree with schwellington 100%

Hey guys, starting to plan out a cycle after I'm done cutting. Goal is for dry lean mass and strength.


12 Weeks total:


Tbol or Epistane: Weeks 1-6

Trenazone: Weeks 4-9

Anavar: 7-12

PCT: Nolvadex 40/40/20/20


Tbol: 30~50~30mg (raising/lowering by 10mg)

Anavar: 30~50~30mg (raising/lowering by 10mg)

Trenazone: 4~10~4 sprays (4, 8, 10, 8, 4)


I'm thinking if I go with Epistane, I will cycle that for 8 weeks, and I might possibly low dose T3 (12.5~25~50~25~12.5) and Clen (100mcg) for the first 8 weeks (Clen will be 2 on, 2 off, 2 on, or I might throw in some benadryl). Doubt 25mcg would be so catabolic that it would render the epistane useless.

I'm aware I'm taking two orals, people are going to complain about how toxic it is to the liver. I plan to pre-load on milk thistle 2 weeks prior to start of cycle and continue up to 2 weeks after end of PCT.

I might also throw in Bioforge V3 (test booster) from the start of PCT.

Don't know if it's worth mentioning since I always take these:

Flax seed oil

Fish oil

Multis

Bioperine

Creatine

Torrent (post workout supp)

Grape seed extract

MSM (joint support)

After T3 (if I end up adding it) I'll PCT thyroid support supps as well.


Also some of you will mention injecting.. specifically test. I'm not scared of needles.. rather I'm scared I'll some how mess up, hit a vein, or nerve, or jerk the needle while it's pinned into my meat and I end up tearing something.. which will then land me into the hospital at worst and last thing I need is to have any sort of negative reputation in this tiny ass town. Believe me... words spread like wild fires out here.

- Don't really like your cycle plan, your length, dosing, administration protocols etc.

IMO:

Weeks 1-12 --> Test E. 500mg/week OR Test Prop. 100mg EOD
Weeks 1-4 --> Epistane 30-50mg ED OR T-bol 40-80mg ED
Weeks 7-12 --> Anavar 70-100mg ED
Weeks 1-12/14 --> Arimidex 0,50-1mg EOD OR Aromasin 12,5-25mg ED

PCT:
Weeks 1-4 --> Clomid 100 | 50 | 50 | 25mg ED
Weeks 1-4 --> Nolva 20 | 20 | 20 | 10mg ED

Tips:
- Some liver/lipid protection is adviced - can make suggestions if you want.
- If you go with Prop start PCT 3 days after last injection if you go with Enan 2 weeks after last injections.

[illriginalize]

- Not that big of problem, one is unmethylated and all the others have low hepatoxicity - mild to low impact on lipids except Anavar.



I agree with schwellington 100%




- Don't really like your cycle plan, your length, dosing, administration protocols etc.

IMO:

Weeks 1-12 --> Test E. 500mg/week OR Test Prop. 100mg EOD
Weeks 1-4 --> Epistane 30-50mg ED OR T-bol 40-80mg ED
Weeks 7-12 --> Anavar 70-100mg ED
Weeks 1-12/14 --> Arimidex 0,50-1mg EOD OR Aromasin 12,5-25mg ED

PCT:
Weeks 1-4 --> Clomid 100 | 50 | 50 | 25mg ED
Weeks 1-4 --> Nolva 20 | 20 | 20 | 10mg ED

Tips:
- Some liver/lipid protection is adviced - can make suggestions if you want.
- If you go with Prop start PCT 3 days after last injection if you go with Enan 2 weeks after last injections.

Hmm.. so drop the trenazone. Should I do a trenazone cycle solo (a few months after my T-bol/Epistane and Anavar cycle)?

Also, is there any reason why you would suggest Enanthate or Prop vs Sus? From what I've read and learned, Sus is the best out of the three though the half life is weak so would more than likely have to inject somewhere around 6AM and then again @ 6PM (those are the only two times I have available, personally) or just once @ 6PM (pre-workout).

And finally I would appreciate some suggestions in regards to liver/lipid protection. Some say you need to pre-load on milk thistle, 2 weeks in advance, then take milk thistle up until after PCT.. while others claim that milk thistle is simply not enough.

[Yaz]

Hmm.. so drop the trenazone. Should I do a trenazone cycle solo (a few months after my T-bol/Epistane and Anavar cycle)?

Also, is there any reason why you would suggest Enanthate or Prop vs Sus? From what I've read and learned, Sus is the best out of the three though the half life is weak so would more than likely have to inject somewhere around 6AM and then again @ 6PM (those are the only two times I have available, personally) or just once @ 6PM (pre-workout).

And finally I would appreciate some suggestions in regards to liver/lipid protection. Some say you need to pre-load on milk thistle, 2 weeks in advance, then take milk thistle up until after PCT.. while others claim that milk thistle is simply not enough.

- If you feel like it go ahead but don't rush in man, we're planning your next cycle not the next after that.
- Never seen the point in the existence of ester blends, don't like them and don't really recommend them - there's no dosing protocol to take complete control of all esters (all 3 or 5 depending on the Sustanon version). If you want 2 different ester to that the correct way, get some Prop and some En and run them together - meaning Prop shoot EOD and En 2 times per week, way more controlable than Sustanon.

As far as lipid protection goes, the best and scientifically valid(!) choices are:
- Omega 3s
- Red Yeast Rice
- Astaxanthin
- Garlic Exctract
- Beta-Sitosterol Plant Sterols
- Fibre

As far as liver protection goes:
- UDCA
- TUDCA
- ALA/R-ALA
- NAC
- Liv 52

Tips:
- IMO Omega 3s and Fibre should be on your diet year round.
- I would suggest 1-2 for liver and 2-4 for lipids - choose some of the above and i will recommend specific dosing ranges for each one.
- Milk Thistle inhibits with the AR, so it's a really bad choice - check this thread out Milk Thistle hurts gains on cycle?

[illriginalize]

- If you feel like it go ahead but don't rush in man, we're planning your next cycle not the next after that.

Haha.. my bad bro.

- Never seen the point in the existence of ester blends, don't like them and don't really recommend them - there's no dosing protocol to take complete control of all esters (all 3 or 5 depending on the Sustanon version). If you want 2 different ester to that the correct way, get some Prop and some En and run them together - meaning Prop shoot EOD and En 2 times per week, way more controlable than Sustanon.

Ok I'll look into Test En.

As far as lipid protection goes, the best and scientifically valid(!) choices are:
- Omega 3s
- Red Yeast Rice
- Astaxanthin
- Garlic Exctract
- Beta-Sitosterol Plant Sterols
- Fibre

As far as liver protection goes:
- UDCA
- TUDCA
- ALA/R-ALA
- NAC
- Liv 52

Tips:
- IMO Omega 3s and Fibre should be on your diet year round.
- I would suggest 1-2 for liver and 2-4 for lipids - choose some of the above and i will recommend specific dosing ranges for each one.
- Milk Thistle inhibits with the AR, so it's a really bad choice - check this thread out _____

I'll go with the TUDCA & UDCA (can't find UDCA, but I also have Liv 52 in mind) and Omega 3 + Fibre.

Thanks for informing me about the milk thistle!

[Yaz]

Haha.. my bad bro.



Ok I'll look into Test En.



I'll go with the TUDCA & UDCA (can't find UDCA, but I also have Liv 52 in mind) and Omega 3 + Fibre.

Thanks for informing me about the milk thistle!

If you go with TUDCA or UDCA you don't need anything else.

- UDCA --> 500-1000mg/week, split in 2 doses (3,5 days of active half life)
- Omega 3s --> 3-6grams ED (talking about EPA/DHA only)
- Fibre --> 20-30grams ED

[illriginalize]

If you go with TUDCA or UDCA you don't need anything else.

- UDCA --> 500-1000mg/week, split in 2 doses (3,5 days of active half life)
- Omega 3s --> 3-6grams ED (talking about EPA/DHA only)
- Fibre --> 20-30grams ED

Should I start the UDCA (liver longer) and lipid protection in advance prior to starting my cycle? Or start them altogether?

[dragevo]

I would go with the test E for 10-12 weeks and if cutting is imp Id use the epi for the last 5-6 weeks. I just started 10 weeks of test E 500mg with x tren kick start. Im up 10lbs in 12 days. The test hasnt really kicked in yet either. Plus with test you ll keep your libido. Mine is retardedly high now! My wife cant get away form me, hahaha