Non Methyl's - Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?

[Whacked]

I believe this was discussed before but ''search'' got me no where.

Most non-methyl's require the use of 300-600mg/day wheras their NON-methylated counterparts are typically in the 50mg/day range so approximately 6-10x the normal methylated versions dose!!.

Example:
Mild/Standard cycle of actual/methylated Winstrol caps: 50 mg/day
Mild/Standard cycle of non-methlyated Winstrol: 400mg

Surely there is some hepatotoxic effect imparted by the nonmethyl's. Well, if we are taking these substances at 4-8x the methylated version's dose to see a result; is it realy an inconsequential and "healthier/safer" scenario?

Reference/Example Only

CEL's Stano-Drol: Lean Muscle, Strength, Aggression, & Muscle Hardening!*

Competitive Edge Labs' Stano-Drol is a naturally occurring pro-anabolic compound that is a precursor to Stanolone (DHT derivative). It is commonly used by those looking to achieve lean muscle, strength, aggression, and muscle hardening effects.

Stano-Drol is not methylated, so it can be used by itself, or can be stacked with other Competitive Edge Labs products depending on individual goals, and can be incorporated into lean bulking, recomposition, or cutting cycles.

Common Dosing Protocol:

Stand Alone Cycles/Beginner/Mild Cycles:
•Week 1: 300 mg per day (2 capsules per day)
•Week 2: 450 mg per day (3 capsules per day)
•Week 3: 450 mg per day (3 capsules per day)
•Week 4: 450 mg per day (3 capsules per day)
•Week 5: 450 mg per day (3 capsules per day)
•Week 6: 450 mg per day (3 capsules per day)

Advanced Cycle:
•Week 1: 450 mg per day (3 capsules per day)
•Week 2: 450 mg per day (3 capsules per day)
•Week 3: 600 mg per day (4 capsules per day)
•Week 4: 600 mg per day (4 capsules per day)
•Week 5: 600 mg per day (4 capsules per day)
•Week 6: 600 mg per day (4 capsules per day)
•Week 7: 600 mg per day (4 capsules per day)
•Week 8: 600 mg per day (4 capsules per day)

Stacking & Bridging Options:

Due to it not being methylated, Stano-Drol can be stacked with select other pro-anabolic compounds. For lean bulking and recomposition cycles, Stano-Drol can be stacked with EQ-Plex, P-Mag, or E-Stane. For cutting cycles, Stano-Drol can be stacked with H-Drol or X–Tren. Dosage and duration is dependent upon what you are stacking it with and previous pro-anabolic experience.

 

[chocolatemilk]

Relating 50mg of Winstrol vs 400mg of it's unmethylated counterpart based on dosage alone won't get you anywhere.

Pharmacokinetics are completely different because it is a different compound. Some things can be taken as high as 500mg in a single dose while others like SD are taken at 20mg.

I have seen bloodwork for a P-mag and Furuza A cycle (Orastan A). The Orastan A was ran at 300-400 mg and as expected, there was shut down, but liver was barely effected.

AST (reference range of 0-40): 45 - High
ALT (reference range of 0-55): 61 - High

It's safe to say it was the P-mag that caused mild elevation.

 

[Whacked]

Thanks Choc

That puts things into perspective. I still believe these agents have some sort of hepatotoxic attribures.

I tend to urinate a darker shade or two for sure even when only running Furaz @ 300 mg/day (2caps x 3x/day) as mine's usually very clear.

 

[DBdude]

This is kinda unrelated but I understood AST & ALT as unreliable forms of measuring liver stress. Isn't billirubin and Alkaline Phosphatase the most accurate? I just had bloods off superdrol and my AST & ALT were in the same ranges as what you posted but my Alkaline Phosphatase & billirubin were within normal ranges. I also came across something interesting in studying UDCA that said Drug induced cirrhosis is genetic based. I guess this is on topic enough since we're discussing liver stress

 

[schwellington]

im confused, non-methyl winstrol doesnt exist if im correct- are you referring to the prohormone to winstrol>?

also im more worried about my cholest than the liver, the liver is a beast

the heart- not so much

i dont see why people make a huge ****ing deal about liver stress, the liver RECOVERS QUICK, cholesterol, is MUCH MORE AFFECTED, and MUCH more dangerous


/end rant

 

[Whacked]

GGT is the gold standard for a specific test for liver toxicity/dysfunction.

AST and ALT are very general and can be elevated from several different means (including working out).

If AST and ALT are extremely out of range, then concerns are warranted and perhaps a GGT is indicated. A slight bump espeically if the patient worked out the day before, only merits monitoring/follow up.

Billirubin and Alk Phos are also indicators that exagerrated liver stress is going on but these are also more general (unless remarkably elevated) and only mandate further tests to rule out a whole host of other potential issues.

This is kinda unrelated but I understood AST & ALT as unreliable forms of measuring liver stress. Isn't billirubin and Alkaline Phosphatase the most accurate? I just had bloods off superdrol and my AST & ALT were in the same ranges as what you posted but my Alkaline Phosphatase & billirubin were within normal ranges. I also came across something interesting in studying UDCA that said Drug induced cirrhosis is genetic based. I guess this is on topic enough since we're discussing liver stress

 

[Whacked]

Just another reason to concern yourself with liver health. Even a slightly dynsunctional liver from repetive and constant stress will also influence all lipid levels; and thereby cardiovascular health as well

Keep disregarding your liver and the cumulative effect from years of this practice, will inevitably impact your lipid levels with more permanency.

i dont see why people make a huge ****ing deal about liver stress, the liver RECOVERS QUICK, cholesterol, is MUCH MORE AFFECTED, and MUCH more dangerous

 

[Whacked]

DB DUDE:

Liver

Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT or SGPT)—An enzyme found primarily in the liver. Abnormalities may represent liver disease.
Albumin Serum—One of the major proteins in the blood and a reflection of the general state of nutrition.
Albumin/Globulin Ratio—Calculated by dividing the albumin by the globulin.
Alkaline Phosphatase—A body protein important in diagnosing proper bone and liver functions.
Aspartate Aminotransferase (AST or SGOT)—An enzyme found in skeletal and heart muscle, liver and other organs. Abnormalities may represent liver disease.
Bilirubin, Total—A chemical involved with liver functions. High concentrations may result in jaundice.
Globulin, Total—A major group of proteins in the blood comprising the infection fighting antibodies
Lactate Dehydrogenase (LDH)—An enzyme found mostly in the heart, muscles, liver, kidney, brain, and red blood cells. When an organ of the body is damaged, LDH is released in greater quantity into the blood stream.
Protein, Total—Together with albumin, it is a measure of the state of nutrition in the body.
GGT—Also known as Gamma-glutamyl transpeptidase, GGTP Formal name: Gamma-glutamyl transferase helps to detect liver and bile duct injury. Some doctors use it in all people they suspect of having liver disease, others use it only to help explain the cause of other changes or if they suspect alcohol abuse.

Kidney

Urea Nitrogen (BUN)—Another by-product of protein metabolism eliminated through the kidneys. BUN is an indicator of kidney function.
Creatinine, Serum—An indicator of kidney function.
Uric Acid—Another by-product of protein metabolism eliminated through the kidneys. Uric acid is an indicator of kidney function.
BUN/Creatinine—Ratio calculated by dividing the BUN by the Creatinine.
Glomerular Filtration (eGFR)—Provides an assessment of the filtering capacity of the kidney.

 

[mark118]

im confused, non-methyl winstrol doesnt exist if im correct- are you referring to the prohormone to winstrol>?

also im more worried about my cholest than the liver, the liver is a beast

the heart- not so much

i dont see why people make a huge ****ing deal about liver stress, the liver RECOVERS QUICK, cholesterol, is MUCH MORE AFFECTED, and MUCH more dangerous


/end rant

it is unmethylated winny,

Nomenclature: [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol or 17beta-tetrahydropyranol-5alpha-androstano-[3,2-c]pyrazole

Synonyms: CEL P-Stanz, ALRI Prostanozol, Generic Labz Mega-Zol, unmethylated winstrol.

Prostanozol is an unmethylated version of the popular - but illegal - steroid stanozolol, a.k.a. "winstrol" or "winny". Here's the two structural diagrams side by side:


[1]

As you can see, although it lacks the 17a-alkylation of winstrol, it has (like the Furaza-A previously discussed) a THP ether to increase bioavailability through uptake by the lymphatic system.

The obvious unique features of these compounds are the furazan and pyrazole rings attached to the A-ring. These are examples of 5-membered heterocyclic rings (another highly amusing example would be Arsole), about which Vida had this to say:


[2]

While prostanozol is the best legal stanozolol derivative we currently have on the market, just as with furazabol the 4-ene derivative (a steroid I call "testozolol") would be worth considering.


[2]

Fortunately for us, researchers in the 1960s tested stanozolol and "testozolol" against each other, removing the guesswork from the situation. Displaying 46.5% of the androgenicity and 61.5% of the anabolism of stanozolol by oral administration, although being slightly weaker it should still possess a very positive A:A ratio, and according to the researchers, some estrogenic activity. [3]

Much like Furaza-A, Prostanozol is a mild compound likely to be expensive to run at effective doses, and will be best used either solo to retain muscle mass while cutting, or in conjunction with another compound to add hardening effects and lean gains without adding too much to the overall toxicity and side-effects of a cycle.

References:
[1] Journal of Steroid Biochemistry & Molecular Biology 101 (2006) 161–178
[2] Julius Vida, Androgens and Anabolic Agents
[3] Influence of molecular unsaturation on hormonal activity pattern of certain heterocyclic steroids

 

[Rodja]

it is unmethylated winny,

Alas, throwing on a 17a completely changes the properties of the hormone (e.g. Boldenone and Dianabol). It is inaccurate to say that simply removing/adding a 17a group will simply alter the oral absorption of the hormone.

 

[mark118]

Alas, throwing on a 17a completely changes the properties of the hormone (e.g. Boldenone and Dianabol). It is inaccurate to say that simply removing/adding a 17a group will simply alter the oral absorption of the hormone.

agreed. anecdotally though, it would appear pstanz is rather mild and a good 'cutter' at higher doses

 

[ONtop888]

Just another reason to concern yourself with liver health. Even a slightly dynsunctional liver from repetive and constant stress will also influence all lipid levels; and thereby cardiovascular health as well

Keep disregarding your liver and the cumulative effect from years of this practice, will inevitably impact your lipid levels with more permanency.

That's what scares me about methyls.....the effect on my lipids. D-zine tore through both with OTC supports, albeit temporarily.

Wha do you think about low dose Superdrol?

 

[mark118]

That's what scares me about methyls.....the effect on my lipids. D-zine tore through both with OTC supports, albeit temporarily.

Wha do you think about low dose Superdrol?

sd is among the worst, and worse than dmz

 

[henryv]

Alas, throwing on a 17a completely changes the properties of the hormone (e.g. Boldenone and Dianabol). It is inaccurate to say that simply removing/adding a 17a group will simply alter the oral absorption of the hormone.

It doesn't completely change the properties of the hormone. To a large extent it just dramatically increases oral bioavailability.