Gyno growing when on NOTHING!! I'm stumped.

[kingdiamond]

History: 6'4 238lbs, lifting 7 years solid. 27 years old. In the past I have done Superdrol, M-drol, P-plex, Havoc/Epistane, Anavar, T-bol.

I have not touched any kind of anabolic or supplement in 1.5 or so years.

2-5 years ago: I believe I had small, mostly unnoticeable traces of gyno from puberty. I believe a few of the cycles aggravated/caused some small gyno gland growth (even with proper PCT always). For the most part they were kept in check. At one point I developed a small gland and it started to grow. I cleared it up with Letro to almost nothing.

1.5 years ago: I finished my last cycle (2 compounds used. Was between M-drol, P-plex or epistane. Don't recall exactly). A few weeks/months after PCT I started getting gyno on the left side (estro rebound I guess?). I ordered Letro and immediately started running it at 2.5mg. I ran it for about 4 weeks and it did nothing except hold the gyno growth in place. Was Iron Dragon Letro btw, which has since been tested to be underdosed. I tapered off the Letro and got on Tore to prevent rebound and then tapered off that. It didn't work. Gyno grew big time after I got off. Gland was large and painful and was there to stay.


Present: I lived with that super painful left side gland for about a year and had it surgically removed in March of 2011. The right side had a lump about the size of a dime on the outer edge of the nipple, and I elected not to have it removed (basically I didn't have enough money for both) and it was unnoticeable. Surgery went well. Left side seems resolved.

SO... 3-4 weeks following the surgery... the dime sized lump on the RIGHT side has TRIPLED in size!!! Keep in mind I have not touched an anabolic/supplement/anything in 1.5 years!!!

Just went and got my blood tests run. Results (seems fine to me??):

Test Total: 348 Range 200-800
Estradoil: 17 Range 8-43
Prolactin: 8.5 Range 2.5-22.5
FSH 5.2 Range 1.5-12.4
LH 6.8 Range 1.7-8.6
HCG Quant, Tumor Marker <1 Range <3



Anyone that has theories/ideas? What the hell is going on?

I'm about to do a Prami/Letro regimine to get rid of it. Taper off then followed by Aromasin to prevent rebound. Very slow taper off Aromasin.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

16 way to fight gyno

Checkout that article. Your body just may have a preference to estrogen compared to androgen.

Although your estrogen levels are low, your total levels are also very low.

You have a 20:1 ratio of T:E so that's not bad, but who knows. You may want to have DHT levels checked.

 

[kingdiamond]

Checkout that article. Your body just may have a preference to estrogen compared to androgen.

Although your estrogen levels are low, your total levels are also very low.

You have a 20:1 ratio of T:E so that's not bad, but who knows. You may want to have DHT levels checked.

Yea wish the Doctor would have put DHT down too. I have seen that article before, I will reread it and pay a bit more attention, thanks.

I wonder why my test levels are low. I'm 27, mesomorph, lift like an animal, high sex drive, plenty of energy.... So I was quite surprised they weren't through the roof to be honest.

I also stopped taking Zantac (150mg twice a day) a week ago, and the lump has not grown any. It has been linked to gyno even though its very rare.

Who knows, maybe that was the cause?

 

[kingdiamond]

Lump is at 50% of original size after day 10 of Letro 2.5mg/Prami 0.5mg standalone protocol.

 

[jtcastro1]

Good to hear letro is helping. Is it liquid or pill form?

 

[CalebRM]

Glad it's helping, sucks to hear man. I have pubertal gyno as well, barely noticeable but on this cycle it has really made my nips puffy kinda nervous.

 

[Imeniaan]

16 way to fight gyno

Checkout that article. Your body just may have a preference to estrogen compared to androgen.

Although your estrogen levels are low, your total levels are also very low.

You have a 20:1 ratio of T:E so that's not bad, but who knows. You may want to have DHT levels checked.

great info, respect!

 

[kingdiamond]

Good to hear letro is helping. Is it liquid or pill form?

It is liquid form, from a research site with a stellar reputation. Not one of those discount places or anyone with a questionable history. I was burned once already.

 

[kingdiamond]

As a side note: Letro, as expected, has wiped out most of my sex drive. I believe Letro is what is shrinking the gyno. I started the protocol with Prami solo for about 3-4 days and didn't see much, if any, improvement. Once I started the Letro I noticed small differences by day 2 of the Letro/Prami combo.

As others have reported, Prami screws up your sleep. I wake up about every 30 mins and feel uncomfortable/disturbed. Small price to pay IMO. When I was taking Prami solo, I noticed the sexual benefit which was cool. For anyone wondering though, the negative sex drive effects of Letro will definitely overpower the positive sexual benefits of Prami.

As of now I have no plans to stop the Prami, because the combo I am doing is working (even if its really just the Letro working) and I don't want to risk anything.

 

[jtcastro1]

Well glad to hear it's working. Just remember to taper off, how long will you run it for?

 

[soontobbeast]

As a side note: Letro, as expected, has wiped out most of my sex drive. I believe Letro is what is shrinking the gyno. I started the protocol with Prami solo for about 3-4 days and didn't see much, if any, improvement. Once I started the Letro I noticed small differences by day 2 of the Letro/Prami combo.

As others have reported, Prami screws up your sleep. I wake up about every 30 mins and feel uncomfortable/disturbed. Small price to pay IMO. When I was taking Prami solo, I noticed the sexual benefit which was cool. For anyone wondering though, the negative sex drive effects of Letro will definitely overpower the positive sexual benefits of Prami.

As of now I have no plans to stop the Prami, because the combo I am doing is working (even if its really just the Letro working) and I don't want to risk anything.

what do you mean you wake up and feel uncomfortable/disturbed?

bad dreams or you're freaked out or what?

 

[kingdiamond]

I drank heavily the other night and it slowed my progress. It seemed to irritate the lump and cause it to inflame a bit. I know alcohol can cause estrogen and cause gyno. After a couple days the lump is about where it was before my night of drinking (around 50%). Won't be doing that again.

I am thinking about doing 1.25mg morning and 2.5mg night of Letro. I am not really having any sides besides lower interest in sex. I read people do up to 5mg of Letro for gyno reversal. I feel I am approaching a plateau in my protocol but I could be wrong.

 

[kingdiamond]

what do you mean you wake up and feel uncomfortable/disturbed?

bad dreams or you're freaked out or what?

Dreams aren't bad necessarily, but dreaming does seem more active.

It makes it harder to be comfortable. I feel like I need to adjust my body every 45mins to get comfortable, for no particular reason. Also my brain feels like it is just waiting for the morning to come and is waking up every hour to check the clock.

Best way I can describe it is the kind of sleep you get before you have a big presentation at work, test at school, big event ect... Just uneasy sleep.

Overall it is not that big of a deal. I feel fine. I get tired around 9pm. No worries.

 

[kingdiamond]

Well glad to hear it's working. Just remember to taper off, how long will you run it for?

For sure man. Have a real slow taper plan and then will hop on Aromasin. Then will taper real slow off that. I will run Letro for probably 4 weeks, or until I feel I have gotten all the benefits I can from it.

 

[jtcastro1]

Do you feel it is better to taper off of letro and start aromasin or would something like nolva work well instead? I'm considering ordering liquid letro but I'm cautious about getting bunk stuff.(don't worry. Not asking for a source lol) I just have to look carefully by good review.

 

[kingdiamond]

Do you feel it is better to taper off of letro and start aromasin or would something like nolva work well instead? I'm considering ordering liquid letro but I'm cautious about getting bunk stuff.(don't worry. Not asking for a source lol) I just have to look carefully by good review.

well you definitely need to taper off letro and start something and then taper off that. Nolva will work just fine. That's what they recommend in the famous gyno thread. I cannot take nolva because it weakens the lining of your blood vessels and I had a blood vessel in my brain rupture when on it (was a pre existing angioma and the nolva compromised it). I chose aromosin because it is a suicidal inhibitor and comes highly recommended for this kind of thing.

 

[jtcastro1]

Ah I see, good info. I have access to aromasin now but not letro. And everyone is saying aromasin can't reverse gyno like letro

 

[kingdiamond]

Ah I see, good info. I have access to aromasin now but not letro. And everyone is saying aromasin can't reverse gyno like letro

Right. The aromasin is used to prevent estrogen rebound after stopping letro, that's all. I have been hit by rebound, not fun. I blame bunk Letro and bunk Tore.

 

[jtcastro1]

So aromasin won't do **** to reverse it?

 

[kingdiamond]

So aromasin won't do **** to reverse it?

Correct. You can use it to fight estrogen to prevent gyno from ever starting..... but it won't do anything for gyno that has already established itself. You want Letro for that. You want 4 weeks of Letro (or the time it takes to reverse gyno), taper off Letro, and start either a serm or suicidal AI at the same time (Nolva, Tore, Aromasin, ect..) and run that for 2-3 weeks.. and finally taper off that very slowly.

 

[jtcastro1]

I see. I can't get letro until 2nd week of June because that's when I see my source. I have 15 nova pills for now. I am thinking about running a low dose Epi cycle because I have heard good things about reduction in gyno. And if it ends up getting worse then I will stop immediately and start pct and then I'll be able to get letro in a month or so. What do you think?

 

[kingdiamond]

Day 16: The past four days I have been running Letro at an upped dose of 3.75 (1.25 morning 2.5 night). Still doing Prami at 0.5 (0.25 morning, 0.25 night).

The lump has gone down further and is now at about 30%. Will continue to the 4 week mark and evaluate from there. No sides really apart from the lowered sex drive (everything is fine physically though).

 

[kingdiamond]

I hit the 28day/4week mark. The lump remains the same, somewhere in the area of 30-50% of the original size. It is the same size as it was around the 18 day mark, whatever the actual percentage is. Sex drive is totally shot. Lump is non visible and not affecting the nipples appearance. My surgical side and my newly Letro'd side look exactly the same. When relaxed I still feel they both look a little too puffy for my taste (I'm a bit critical). I think it may be due to a sketchy diet lately, so I have decided to lose some bodyfat %. I'm a little high at the moment, guessing 13-14%. We'll see what happens and go from there.



My taper off Letro and transition to Aromasin begins.

 

[jtcastro1]

Good to hear it worked somewhat for you. I'm on day 8 of letro eight now. I have extremely puffy nips so I might need prami also. Good luck