Nasty Lean Mass Stack (1test, 4ad, M4OHN or MD)

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    Nasty Lean Mass Stack (1test, 4ad, M4OHN or MD)


    What do you guys think:
    250mg - 300mg 1test
    400mg - 4AD
    7-9mg - Methyl Dien

    *OR*

    250mg - 300mg 1test
    400mg - 4AD
    20mg - M4OHN


    Concerns with combining 4ad with M4OHN?

    Thanks Bros
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    Personally, I would go with the latter. I've never tried M-D, and don't know much about it, so I can't compare them.

    As far as concerns with 4AD with M4OHN, they say it should be a good mass stack, but gyno could become an issue. There's a read on it over at DS's site from Pogue, I believe. Just keep some Nolva on hand during your cycle, and for pct, and you shoud be fine.
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    I would do the M40HN, watching carefully for Gyno.
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    why would m4ohn cause gyno it doesnt aromatize?
    dick
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickwootton
    why would m4ohn cause gyno it doesnt aromatize?
    dick
    He will still be on the 4ad which does.

    I read an interesting post yesterday by Patrick Arnold saying that basically we don't know everything about how gyno happens, because there are reports of people getting gyno on non-armomatizing cycles.
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    Ok, I'm scared now.
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    Hmm... So should I stick with the 1test, 4ad, m4ohn plan?
    The goal is strictly Lean Mass (going 4weeks, I'm thinking I can get ~8-13lbs.), and I won't be doing much (if any cardio) and I figured MD or M4OHN would lean me out along with a strength boast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrico
    Ok, I'm scared now.
    I am too!
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    As weird as this sounds the only thing m4ohn did for me was cause me to hold more water and gave me puffy nipples. Threw the rest out and hit nolva, all is well now.
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    Im currently in week four of the following:
    125mg 4add / 62.5mg OHT Trans
    18mg M4OHN

    I Like it so far I have adjusted the dosages as I went along trying to find a good combinatation and think I like where I am at. I started at 250 4add and 125 OHT and 8 Mg Of M4OHN I was not liking the high BP (even though I was on Hawthorn berry I was still running in the high 130's over 85) So I droped the trans by half and slowly uped the M4OHN until Im at 18mg a day now. My Libido is going strong, and I have a general feeling of well being. I am up about 5-7 pounds, some of it water weight undoubtably. I have noticed some ASS Kicking pumps from the M4OHN. I have been on 4add before and not noticed these type of pumps. Have not altered my diet at all as I am trying for small lean gains.

    Just a little background:
    Weight: 207
    Height: 6'4''
    Age: 37
    Experiance: I have been lifting regulary for the last 3 years. I am no bodybuilder, I lift for pleasure and ego (I like when the younger girls stare at me even though my wife does not ) I have experamented with PH's a little in the past.

    Hope this helps.
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    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t&pagenumber=5

    "gynecomastia is not fully understood. there may be many things that can aggravate it beyond just female hormones. growth factors such as IGF-1 can make it grow. some of these growth factors may be influenced by certain androgens themselves"

    "ll estrogen is produced from the aromatization of androgenic precursors (testosterone or androstenedione)
    we don't know why M-1-T or some other steroids that are not expected to still cause gyno
    just accept the fact that we do not know"

    - Patrick Arnold
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    i could understand a post cycle estrogen increase but hey whatev just run nolva.
    Dick
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    progesterone issues though? M4OHN with 4ad?

    Can Nolvadex combat that? I have some Vitex laying around, possibly take that for protection?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59
    progesterone issues though? M4OHN with 4ad?

    Can Nolvadex combat that? I have some Vitex laying around, possibly take that for protection?
    This has been addressed extensively. Most recently in a thread about a 19nor/4ad cycle where Jergo debated it with Geoboy. Bobo has also posted about this. Both Bobo and Jergo, the latter drawing from the former, posted that the best treatment for gyno caused by progesterone is using nolva. The reasoning being, nolva reduces/eliminates estrogen which must be present for progesterone, so no more estrogen, no more progesterone.

    Other solutions were discussed such as Bromo, which could be dangerous from what I understand, as well as vitex, I think.

    cm5
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    I say just use the M4OHN & the 1-test. I had great results with that stack (20mg m4OHN, 300mg 1-test). You'll get nice lean gains with no water retention. There's no need to add 4ad. If you take a high enough dose of the other compounds, all 4ad would really add is bloating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longdog
    I say just use the M4OHN & the 1-test. I had great results with that stack (20mg m4OHN, 300mg 1-test). You'll get nice lean gains with no water retention. There's no need to add 4ad. If you take a high enough dose of the other compounds, all 4ad would really add is bloating.
    hmm...
    The 20mg of M40HN would be enough to prevent the 1-test side effects? (lethargy, libido loss, etc.)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59
    hmm...
    The 20mg of M40HN would be enough to prevent the 1-test side effects? (lethargy, libido loss, etc.)?
    Yeah, I felt great the whole cycle. I surprisingly had no libido loss until I started PCT, & lethargy was very little. I actually ran the M4OHN alone 2 weeks, then added 1-test for 5 more weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59
    250mg - 300mg 1test
    400mg - 4AD
    20mg - M4OHN
    I'm running a cycle like that in a few weeks with the addition of ~300mg 4OHT too.
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    This has been addressed extensively. Most recently in a thread about a 19nor/4ad cycle where Jergo debated it with Geoboy. Bobo has also posted about this. Both Bobo and Jergo, the latter drawing from the former, posted that the best treatment for gyno caused by progesterone is using nolva. The reasoning being, nolva reduces/eliminates estrogen which must be present for progesterone, so no more estrogen, no more progesterone.
    I always thought tamoxifen merely binds to estrogen receptor sites, it doesn't block the formation of estrogen. Letrozole or Arimidex is needed to actually block the formation of estrogen.

    In fact, in some cases, tamoxifen has been shown to indirectly increase amount of estradiol in your system in some studies. That's actually one of the reasons tamoxifen therapy doesn't work after a certain point for breast cancer patients and why they have to then switch to Arimidex or Letrozole (Letro, aka Femara, is a brand new drug released last year by Novartis).
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