diarrhea and orals? Help requested.

[BURNT DICE]

Hi,

I am on day 24 of and H-drol cycle and have been slowly developing diarrhea. After maybe the 2nd week it was just loose craps and didn't really concern me much, but the last few days it is more like diarrhea. It doesn't come gushing out with lots of liquid, so I don't think I am getting dehydrated from it and am continuing to drink lots of water. But it did seem to get worse when I upped my dose from 50-75 a few days ago. Otherwise i feel pretty good, no fever, etc... I have a bit of upset stomach but taking some OTC gas relief seems to help with that. I think the upset stomach is just the fact that it has diarrhea in it and not solid crap. I was originally planning on doing 5 weeks, but thinking 4 now, but still, I am 4 days away from that and am a bit worried that maybe i should just stop now and introduce my SERM/test booster.

So, are diarrhea/stomach issues fairly common and benign?

Should I stop now or finish off week 4?

For my SERM, would I take that 12 hours after my last h-drol dose or 24 hours?

BD

 

[middleageguy]

Hi,

I am on day 24 of and H-drol cycle and have been slowly developing diarrhea. After maybe the 2nd week it was just loose craps and didn't really concern me much, but the last few days it is more like diarrhea. It doesn't come gushing out with lots of liquid, so I don't think I am getting dehydrated from it and am continuing to drink lots of water. But it did seem to get worse when I upped my dose from 50-75 a few days ago. Otherwise i feel pretty good, no fever, etc... I have a bit of upset stomach but taking some OTC gas relief seems to help with that. I think the upset stomach is just the fact that it has diarrhea in it and not solid crap. I was originally planning on doing 5 weeks, but thinking 4 now, but still, I am 4 days away from that and am a bit worried that maybe i should just stop now and introduce my SERM/test booster.

So, are diarrhea/stomach issues fairly common and benign?

Should I stop now or finish off week 4?

For my SERM, would I take that 12 hours after my last h-drol dose or 24 hours?

BD

I am interested in what others comments are on your slowly developing diarrhea during a cycle.

I do have a few questions, that might help others in there responses:
Have you been taking through out your cycle supporting supplements such as CEL Cycle Assist and or any Liver Support?
What is the color of your stool and has it changed since the beginning of your cycle?
Has your upset stomach been getting progressively worse and where, what reign of your body is the pain located, front, back, right, left?
Has any body else at your work and or home gotten sick lately, have you possibly picked up a bug at work/home?

(What does the color of your poop mean?)
Stools Can Reveal A Lot About Health - The Herbs Place

 

[BURNT DICE]

Thanks for the response!!!

Have you been taking through out your cycle supporting supplements such as CEL Cycle Assist and or any Liver Support?

Yes, I have taken Cycle Assist (8 caps a day spread out into two doses, 4 hrs apart from the hdrol), fish oil, multivitamin

What is the color of your stool and has it changed since the beginning of your cycle?

It's gotten more pale, but i wouldn't say progressively so. it's kind of like the next day after you drink (which I don't do of course). Kinda like when you get the ****s the next day from being drunk if that's not just a me thing.

Has your upset stomach been getting progressively worse and where, what reign of your body is the pain located, front, back, right, left?

I'm not in pain, just upset stomach/bloating. Not to say it's not concerning, but it is like gas basically and will get better if I pass gas. Since taking gas-x yesterday and the day before the bloating has gotten a lot better.

Has any body else at your work and or home gotten sick lately, have you possibly picked up a bug at work/home?

I considered this and i do know just today my colleague and wife are feeling under the weather, but i don't think it is related. Why? because first off they just have head colds basically. No diarrhea or anything like that. Secondly, this is something that I noticed starting earlier on with the cycle. My craps just got looser and gassier and "broke down" more slowly as time went on.

Thanks for the link. I read thru it and I think it is probably "pale and clay like" possibly meaning the liver/gallbladder is under stress, which of course we know it is (liver). I did have bloodwork done precycle and my doctor said my liver enzymes were VERY good. One other thing. I have always had bad gas. So, I kinda wonder if this just made a funky gastro system worse.

 

[808rebel]

not to be rude but by post 3 i could not read on...lol.... good luck with that

 

[BURNT DICE]

Thanks for your help....not.

 

[middleageguy]

Thanks for your help....not.

Let me ask a few more questions.

Are you taking any other supplements, like a pre-workout drink, post-workout recovery drink, Amino Acids, Creatine or other. If so were you taking these prior to your cycle?

Has anything changed in your diet during your cycle from prior to cycle, eating mass quantizes of anything protein, carbohydrates, vegetables, fats, milk, on and on?

I am not saying there is anything wrong with consuming these. But I read of people throwing in everything under the kitchen sink during a cycle. Then when something abnormal happens it is hard to pinpoint the cause.

Cause and effect can be hard to pinpoint. Just saying for you to do a little self detective work. Think if there is anything new and or increased besides the H-DROL. It may just dawn on your, yes this may be it, it started just after I started taking/eating this or that.

 

[EasyEJL]

Hi,

I am on day 24 of and H-drol cycle and have been slowly developing diarrhea. After maybe the 2nd week it was just loose craps and didn't really concern me much, but the last few days it is more like diarrhea.

....

I have a bit of upset stomach but taking some OTC gas relief seems to help with that.

My question is, did the diarrhea come first, or did the upset stomach + gas come first and then you started the OTC gas relief?

 

[zachmanman]

stop everything else and just take the hdrol, then see what happens

 

[swollen87]

I developed celiacs disease after a dzine run/quitting smoking.... very strange... just thought u might wanna look into trying cutting gluten out of your diet for a while to see if that helps....

Or it could have something to do with a bile duct obstruction(bad) udca or tudca can be used to treat this
Bile spelling agents

Otc methyl steroids come with some sides.... even hdrol...

I suggest seeing a doctor when your through with the cycle to get some bloods done

 

[BURNT DICE]

got some answers to your questions, but one quick one first.

If I bail and go pct tomorrow, should I dose my hdrol one last time tonight and then Nolva first thing. Or...can I just skip my Hdrol tonight and start PCT first thing in the AM ok. I did 50 this morning and would normally do 25 pre-workout.

 

[middleageguy]

I developed celiacs disease after a dzine run/quitting smoking.... very strange... just thought u might wanna look into trying cutting gluten out of your diet for a while to see if that helps....

Or it could have something to do with a bile duct obstruction(bad) udca or tudca can be used to treat this
Bile spelling agents

Otc methyl steroids come with some sides.... even hdrol...

I suggest seeing a doctor when your through with the cycle to get some bloods done

This is a link about superdrol not H-drol but it talks of “blockage of bile acids” which swollen87 was speaking of. Do you have any of these additional signs?

Negative effects on the liver generally manifest as a condition known as reversible cholestasis. This is essentially a slowing or complete blockage of bile acids from the liver. Immediate signs of compromised liver function included reduced appetite and general sickness, which will soon be accompanied by yellowing of the eyes (jaundice), excessive itchiness and very dark urine. If these effects are noticed, methyldrostanolone should be discontinued immediately.

swollen87 could also be right in having developed or have an allergic reaction.

stop everything else and just take the hdrol, then see what happens

Don’t think this is all that advisable if you are having liver issues.

My question is, did the diarrhea come first, or did the upset stomach + gas come first and then you started the OTC gas relief?

Sounds like EasyEJL is on the right track. Work backwards and eliminate one thing at a time.
But protect your liver!

 

[BURNT DICE]

Nice...some quality responses, thanks guys! Much appreciated. To answer a few things:

Are you taking any other supplements, like a pre-workout drink, post-workout recovery drink, Amino Acids, Creatine or other. If so were you taking these prior to your cycle?

No, the only other thing that is new is the CA of course, and I've wondered if that might be it too.

Has anything changed in your diet during your cycle from prior to cycle, eating mass quantizes of anything protein, carbohydrates, vegetables, fats, milk, on and on?

Not really. I did increase whey, but I read that about protein and have tried to scale it back the last day or so and nothing yet. Also I did not increase it much. I spent more time increasing my solid protein if anything.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with consuming these. But I read of people throwing in everything under the kitchen sink during a cycle. Then when something abnormal happens it is hard to pinpoint the cause.

I agree and tried to keep my cycle simple for that reason. Only what is necessary. really, for the most part i did a clean bulk for two weeks (extra 500-700 calories maybe). Super clean! brown rice, oatmeal, legumes, eggs, chicken, tuna, fruits and veggies. No crap! I think it has to be either the CA or the H-drol 95%. I ALWAYS eat clean though, cycle or not my diet in nature is clean, low GI, high quality fat, etc...

 

[swollen87]

got some answers to your questions, but one quick one first.

If I bail and go pct tomorrow, should I dose my hdrol one last time tonight and then Nolva first thing. Or...can I just skip my Hdrol tonight and start PCT first thing in the AM ok. I did 50 this morning and would normally do 25 pre-workout.

Yes, finish today and start nolva 2morro...

I like to run nolva @ 40 mg the first few days (but that's just me)

 

[EasyEJL]

got some answers to your questions, but one quick one first.

If I bail and go pct tomorrow, should I dose my hdrol one last time tonight and then Nolva first thing. Or...can I just skip my Hdrol tonight and start PCT first thing in the AM ok. I did 50 this morning and would normally do 25 pre-workout.

if you are going to bail, just take the first dose of nolva tonight. Its not very time sensitive, has a long halflife, and although halodrol's halflife is moderately long it isn't more than a day.

 

[BURNT DICE]

My question is, did the diarrhea come first, or did the upset stomach + gas come first and then you started the OTC gas relief?

First game loose craps that were a bit more pale than usual, which increasingly broke apart and slowly turned to diarrhea with ea successive crap. Bloating also increased I would say but was barely noticeable and still..isn't that bad. The OTC gas relief came the last 1-2 days as a way to try to see if I could clear it up. The gas x does help bloating. Also tried taking Kaopectate and Imodium yesterday and today. No improvement.

 

[BURNT DICE]

I developed celiacs disease after a dzine run/quitting smoking.... very strange... just thought u might wanna look into trying cutting gluten out of your diet for a while to see if that helps....

Or it could have something to do with a bile duct obstruction(bad) udca or tudca can be used to treat this
Bile spelling agents

Otc methyl steroids come with some sides.... even hdrol...

I suggest seeing a doctor when your through with the cycle to get some bloods done

Swollen,

I already am gluten intolerant. I haven't mentioned that yet, but I have been Gluten free for about 5 years now. I was wondering about that so it is interesting that you mention that! I'm wondering if I just have a sensitive gastro system in general. to be honest I am a bit worried about bile obstruction as I would guess that less is coming out of me than is going in, but it could be that since it is coming out like diarrhea it just looks like that I suppose.

 

[swollen87]

First game loose craps that were a bit more pale than usual, which increasingly broke apart and slowly turned to diarrhea with ea successive crap. Bloating also increased I would say but was barely noticeable and still..isn't that bad. The OTC gas relief came the last 1-2 days as a way to try to see if I could clear it up. The gas x does help bloating. Also tried taking Kaopectate and Imodium yesterday and today. No improvement.

Bloat/diarrhea were my main symptoms of celiacs.

Try to stay away from otc gas products as they're only gunna mask the problem..

Imo bail and get bloodwork to be safe, if everything comes back ok, check for allergies

 

[Playwithfire]

Possible case of Ulcerative Colitis

I have always had bad gas. So, I kinda wonder if this just made a funky gastro system worse.

Swollen,

I already am gluten intolerant. I haven't mentioned that yet, but I have been Gluten free for about 5 years now. I was wondering about that so it is interesting that you mention that! I'm wondering if I just have a sensitive gastro system in general.

You might have ulcerative colitis (UC). I was diagnosed with this disease a few years ago and based on your symptoms that the H-drol is aggravating your lower intestines. I had stomach problems for years, and they were especially prominent when I was on cycle. The disease manifested itself when I turned thirty. Once the disease became prominent I was also gluten sensitive and I cannot eat nut products. I have been on immuno-suppressants for about a year and this has cleared up the majority of my symptoms. If your symptoms get progressively or suddenly worse you should consult with a GI doctor ASAP.

 

[middleageguy]

First game loose craps that were a bit more pale than usual, which increasingly broke apart and slowly turned to diarrhea with ea successive crap. Bloating also increased I would say but was barely noticeable and still..isn't that bad. The OTC gas relief came the last 1-2 days as a way to try to see if I could clear it up. The gas x does help bloating. Also tried taking Kaopectate and Imodium yesterday and today. No improvement.

I’m going to bow out after this post. Leave it up to the more experienced users.

But “Kaopectate and Imodium” are not a cure; they just plug you up as diarrhea is inconvenient. Your body gives you diarrhea to expel everything as fast as possible. This is a layman way of saying it. I don’t think ongoing usage of “Kaopectate and Imodium” would be advisable at all. There great for the once in a while inconvenient diarrhea, but I don’t think they would be a good idea in this case.

 

[swollen87]

Swollen,

I already am gluten intolerant. I haven't mentioned that yet, but I have been Gluten free for about 5 years now. I was wondering about that so it is interesting that you mention that! I'm wondering if I just have a sensitive gastro system in general. to be honest I am a bit worried about bile obstruction as I would guess that less is coming out of me than is going in, but it could be that since it is coming out like diarrhea it just looks like that I suppose.

I missed this my bad... im typing on my phone sorry...

It could be the soy letchin in your protien used as an emulsifier is causing your gluten intolerance to act up.... I can't eat ANY soy or gluten or ill be ****ting for days... be careful, I'm sure you know its possible to accidentally "glutenize" yourself by accident

Jump ship, get bloods, cut soy and look into udca if all else fails

 

[BURNT DICE]

I'm gonna jump ship and take nolva starting tonight as per EasyEJL. Swollen, I know you said i could maybe start in the morning, but if it is fine tonight I just assume get off the Hdrol ASAP and start to get the nolva running.

should I start my testbooster tonight or tomorrow....or at all

Also, should I maybe continue to take the CA for the next couple days and if I still have trouble drop it for a couple days too to see what happens. Is it safe to say that while CA is good to use in PCT it's not as important as when Hdrol is being processed by your liver?

I would kind of like to start at 20mg of Nolva as higher doses of that scares me a bit, but if you guys think 40 for the first few days is a good approach I can do that.

Finally, should I get blood work asap or maybe just wait it out a bit longer to see how I respond to the Nolva. I don't want to have to explain to my doctor why I want more bloodwork a month after I just had it done and at this point I don't have fever, yellowing skin/eys, eyes, nausea, vomiting, etc.

Your help is much appreciated guys....reps all around.!

BD

 

[BURNT DICE]

I missed this my bad... im typing on my phone sorry...

It could be the soy letchin in your protien used as an emulsifier is causing your gluten intolerance to act up.... I can't eat ANY soy or gluten or ill be ****ting for days... be careful, I'm sure you know its possible to accidentally "glutenize" yourself by accident

Jump ship, get bloods, cut soy and look into udca if all else fails

Only thing is I have been using the same whey protein for almost 2 years without issue. I JUST got a new batch recently, but I doubt the formula has changed.

 

[swollen87]

Only thing is I have been using the same whey protein for almost 2 years without issue. I JUST got a new batch recently, but I doubt the formula has changed.

might be that... we cant really just guess you know... process of elimination man.

As far as nolva goes, I'd say just keep it at 20 because nolva affects liver function

Not sure about the test booster..

As far as bloodwork goes, it would prob be a good idea to get em done ... to be safe... ideally right now since there may be a problem, and then a month after pct to see how you recovered

 

[BURNT DICE]

Guys

what are your thoughts about skipping nolva AND Cycle Assist for tonight and just take some Milk thistle. Kind of give my liver the night off and then dose the Nolva and CA starting in the morning?

BD

 

[BURNT DICE]

UPDATE

So I decided to pull the plug (stop H-drol) and go to the doctor last night. I laid it all out to the medical clinic doctor about what was going on. She told me to start by taking Polyethylene Glycol (Dulcolax). That it was an osmosis kind of laxative and generally safe. I got some and took it. I told her about Nolvadex and she said not to take it, but knowing a bit about all that, I said, but wait... and explained why Nolvadex might be important at this point for me (HPTA, etc...). She said Hm...that DOES make sense and thought about it for a moment. Ultimately couldn't advise me to do that which I completely understand. Said she was not an expert in that stuff and said the best thing at this point is to get bloodwork ASAP and gave me a requisition which I had drawn this morning when I woke. I'm lucky that I am in Canada and this is all basically covered medically. I did crap this morning twice, but they are kind of cat poop like still and limited, but maybe a bit better. I also have gas and my stomach gurgles a bit, I fart and it will feel better.

While at the hospital I bumped into my mother in law who saw I was getting blood drawn and B lined it for me and said, " I can get your results pulled same day if you want and fax it to your doctor, just call me! (she's pretty cool) I told her I would think about that. SO, I then drove over to my personal doctor to get her in the loop BUT her office was closed, but it will open in an hour so I am at home right now waiting for a bit to go over.

Here's what I am thinking. Not that I want my mother in law in on all this (sigh), but maybe I will get her to pull the results and go back to my doctor either at the end of the day if I can or tomorrow morning assuming she has the result. If I am not shutdown or there are no major hormonal issues maybe I'll drop the Nolvadex too which would be nice since it is also somewhat liver toxic. Basically go completely clean. One thing, the medical clinic doctor said I didn't need to fast, which turned out to be wrong, so they couldn't test for LDL/HDL/Tri-glycerides this morning. However, I dont know if I should be THAT worried about those numbers right now. Here's why...before I started taking H-drol my levels were excellent. I took H-drol for 50/50/50 and a few days at 75...pretty conservative and only for a total of 24 days. I'm sure they took a hit but i doubt they tanked off that and besides that stuff I think is probably related to other health issues than the one I am worried about right now. Nolva or not I would think that eating a clean healthy diet with lots of healthy fats would turn that around pretty quick. Perhaps I am wrong though and will need to go back for more bloods. That's it for now...heading to the doc in a bit. Oh, for last night I DID decide to go ahead and take 20MG of Nolva for now. My rationale is that I am fast tracking the blood/doctor stuff and am able to at least get some kind of bowel movement, so I think I am probably wise to make sure that to start I have a SERM in there to make sure everything comes back to normal as quick as possible until I know more. Agree?

Your advice and support is greatly appreciated!

 

[BURNT DICE]

Oh...and I decided to stop CA too in case it is something in that that is bothering me. In lieu, I took a does of Milk Thistle (which I know I am fine with as I have taken that supp in the past and tolerated it fine). I also took my standard daily Multi and fish oil.

 

[BURNT DICE]

Hey guys, an update and looking for a bit more advice. I feel fine but am waiting for my bloods to come back still.

I am basically 2 days into PCT. I still have diarrhea and am starting to think that when i was backed up and bloated it might have been because I was try get my crap solid with Imuodium and kaopectate. It's possible that my hormones (either hyperactive thyroid or underactive Pituitary gland) are the reason for the diarrhea as per Google. My doc said that it was somewhat common for steroids to cause gastro issues too, but I never really heard that on here when doing my H-drol research. I've read that extra estrogen could do that, but that wouldn't likely be the case while still on H-drol though, right? Wouldn't that be more likely a cause during PCT? The good news is that the bloating is gone and i can pass stuff along easily now, but too easily. Also, my liver felt a little tight and full towards the end on hdrol and I don't really have that feeling of slight pressure under my right ribcage anymore. One thing though...maybe the problem is now just working itself out in reverse.

I am on a 20mg dose of Nolva and am hoping that stabilizes my hormones. So, I'm thinking maybe I should bring in the CA again (in lieu I have been taking Milk Thistle and Hawthorn berry), but perhaps more importantly get the testbooster as part of the regimen and think that might speed the recovery. I'm guessing the Nolva is the most important thing right now anyway. I think I will wait 1-2 more days to see what happens with my craps and see if my bloods come back, but if no improvement will bring in the test booster. My hunch is that while nice to heave to speed test recovery and keep gains, the test booster isn't a must have for the purpose of normal recovery and adding it in a few days later into PCT is probably fine and better than going without completely. Or maybe it is MOST important right now when test levels could be at their lowest. Anyway, getting the info from my bloods will be good of course.

My doc was pretty cool about it all actually. She agreed that i probably should use the nolva I had. Couldn't comment on it specifically but seemed to kind trust my research and the rationale for taking it. Also didn't lecture me and bad mouth steroids and said something to the effect of "steroids can be really good and I know a lot of guys like to use them who are into sports and stuff...but they change just about everything and can have side effects too so you need to be careful. Also seemed to acknowledged that my legwork to have blood work and make sure all the important areas where healthy was a smart first step. And after re-reviewing my pre-cycle baseline again with me seemed not so concerned about things for me and agreed that not testing LDL/HDL/ratio at this point was likely not going to be a concern for me because they were so good going into it, I was only on them for 24 days was conservative in dosing AND most importantly those are long term wear and tear stuff. Having low levels for a month or two is not a problem if you are healthy on either side of that (cycle). She even had a testosterone treatment pamphlet on her display. Maybe I can talk her into something (doubt that though. LOL)

Anyway, I am optimistic and feeling good which is a good thing I think. As long as I can fix my diarrhea I think I am good to go. Assuming I recover OK I am actually still considering another run...but not with H-drol or other orals. I think if there is a next time around I would be more inclined to try something injectable. Like a beginner injectable like straight test or something. I just kinda feel like my liver took an unnecessary beating and I'm not afraid of needles. Also, in Canada law enforcement isn't so hard core about personal use for stuff like this. Steroids are not illegal to posses and use in Canada, just to buy and import. Stuff like this is usually thrown out of court so the police don't really persue it. Unless you are trafficking/dealing it. (I wanted to go with H-drol to start because it's not illegal at all and was "mild" for an oral). The worse they can do is seize it and flush it down the toilet if they want to. Anyway, I would like to start learning about some of the other non oral stuff. Do you guys a good starting point if I go this route. Best forums on AM, sites, tips, people, etc...Obviously I would be a minimum of 3-6 moths before I would even consider that, but would like to start the learning process again.

Thanks

DICE

 

[swollen87]

You've done your research, I can tell...

Hdrol is "considered" mild, but imo test/other injectables are more mild...

It is a mild oral though. Think of say, anadrol


Take care of that liver, imo milk thistle is useless... look into Sam-e and turmeric for your liver

I had a very similar experience, and that's why I won't be messing w otc steroids anymore.....even the oral winstrol I'm on now isn't affecting my stomach.

Once the diarrhea stops start the test booster... did u get ur test levels checked? Free test? Estrogen?

Pls post up your bloods if you can

 

[BURNT DICE]

Thanks for the repsonse and yes, I will post that info. I also kept a copy of my baseline prior to my cycle too. I had my doctor photocopy it for me. As a matter of fact I am going to keep all my blood results (cycle or not) going forward for my own personal interest. (you can learn a lot from Google and it's pretty interesting to look up the stuff they test for on those sheets). Originally, the medical clinic doctor did not check off testosterone and also told me I didn't need to fast, which was wrong and my doctor rolled her eyes and said, "that was a mistake". The person before me also came back and told her the dose amount she prescribed was wrong while I was waiting. She was nice...but as a doctor, a noob I think HOWEVER, I looked over what she had checked off and I put additional check-marks by the fields "testosterone" and "free testosterone". I did this last time with my original blood req and it worked and my doctor didn't even notice I did that. However, I did not see or think to look for Estrogen, so I doubt that will be checked unfortunately.

Another day and I will bring back the CA if I still have diarrhea I think. if after 3 days of not using CA and I still have the diarrhea, my guess is that the culprit wasn't the CA and probably good to get back in there. I've heard about SAM-e but haven't read much into it yet. Saw it on the Dr. oz show once, shows promise. He also spoke very highly of Milk Thistle for the liver. I have some alpha linioc acid I picked up with my last batch of protein as it was cheap and i heard from Dr. Weil (very respected) that acetyl L-carnitine mixed with ALA at the right doses is proving very interesting and he has come out with his own product for this now (juvenon) that is really just these two compounds but branded and trademarked with a couple add-ons. when I looked at the bottle of ALA one of the things it purports to be helpful for is liver function. Dunno if that is true or if you know anything about that, but thought it was interesting and noticed it wasn't something in the CA mix and considered adding it. Shrug. it sits on my shelf for now, unused.

thinking if my odc is open this week-end I will just stroll in on Saturday and get my results unless she calls me first.

DICE

 

[BURNT DICE]

Bloodwork result are in and will follow, but first...

Guys, I got a private message from someone that said my diarrhea problem might be due to the fact that there is a lot of Magnesium in CA and H-drol and that is know to cause diarrhea. MAJOR THANKS DUDE as I think you were exactly right! After digging into it I found that people with troubled digestive systems (mine is a bit wonky as I am allergic to Gluten) can experience this more. Furthermore, I cut back on salt big time for my cycle and that helps you body balance magnesium. FURTHERMORE, when I looked at my diet many of the foods I eat every day are high in magnesium (spinach, almonds , oatmeal, brown rice, legumes...staples for me). Plus it was in my vitamins. Kind of a perfect storm for high magnesium problems.

So, I have since started taking Psylium which helps you bind your crap. Added more potassium, sodium and calcium to my diet (which are magnesium antagonists - Gatoraid) and am cutting back on the high mag foods I eat. My crap are improved quite a bit but are still a bit thin and loose, but I feel fine and no stomach issues or anthing I am going to start taking my test booster and CA again CUZ...(and correct me if you think I am mistaken to do so)

My blood results are back. The numbers are in Canadian measures and I have to convert them and I don't have the fine details but I do have what believe are my free and bioavailble numbers. I am not sure if I am reading this wrong, BUT, I have a section that says

"Endocrinilogy"
Testosterone (measured in nmol) reference range 8.4 - 28.7. If you multiply those numbers x 29 you get the US version of those numbers I believe which are 243-832. I googled the normal ranges for US testosterone and it appeared to add up. I'll put the US versions in brackets to help.

Before
My nmol = 13.2
aka 382.8 ng/dl

After
My nmol = .9
aka 26.1 ng/dl


Bioavailble testosterone
ref range is 2.1-8.5 nmol (aka 60.9 - 246.5 ng/dl)
Before
2.51 (aka 72.79 ng/dl)
After
My nmol = .35 (aka 10.15)

SHBG
before 38nmol (1102 ng/dl)
after 10 nmol (290 ng/dl)

I'm no expert at this stuff but a quick glace at the normal range and some google searches and I would guess that I was "SHUT DOWN" .

Liver values

Before
ALT = 40
AST = 40

AFTER
ALT 417
AST 165


Thoughts. These seem like significant changes. How significant, I don't know, so those who know well, please advise. That said, my doctor didn't seem that worried. She said that while my liver took a beating that it was not THAT bad and would recover fine in a month or two, but said, "whatever you were taking had quick changes to your liver and you wouldn't have wanted to stay on that for much longer. I told her if I hadn't stopped it would have been about another 1.5 weeks and she didn't say anything. As for testosterone, she said that as long as I get lots of exercise and eat lots it should recover fine too. But damn that seems really low to me. How does that compare to others on the last day of their cycle. Is that normal?

Now, My energy is excellent, I have not lost weight and my strength has held up in the gym and I have not lost anything since ceasing H-drol 6 days ago really. Tiny tiny bit maybe. But some lifts are actually up. I am on 20mg daily of Nolvadex. Is it possible that test will go up rapidly after quiting H-drol or maybe or is H-drol still in there a bit or something?

I belive that I should start to taking my test booster now that I know what my diarrhea problem was and at this point would want to do everything I can to make sure that my test goes up as fast as possible...CORRECT ASSUMPTION?. I started taking it again last night.

SHOULD i ALSO ADD BACK IN MY CYCLE ASSIST?. Do the Nolva and Activate Xtreme have much of an impact on liver values or are they much weaker than H-drol and things are probaly on the mend, but perhaps a bit slower without them. Is CA that important in PCT or can I just maybe continue with Milk Thistle and Hawthorn Berry? I took CA this morning but would like to hear from someone on this.

I want to add creatine and a preworkout supp (bought some magnesium free Jacked for this). Sound OK?

PLEASE ADVISE and thanx for all your help fellas!

DICE

 

[middleageguy]

I have not lost weight and my strength has held up in the gym and I have not lost anything since ceasing H-drol 6 days ago really.

So tell us. Do you plan on doing future cycles of PH's(steroids)?
Did this experience scare you off of PH's(steroids) or do you feel you learned from it and are going to try again at a later date?

 

[diablosho]

****, if HDrol did that to me in that time period, I would NEVER mess with these things again. My bloodwork always shows an increase in AST/ALT/cholesterol/etc., but no where near that much (and strangely, my testosterone has always been pretty steady throughout my cycles as well). But seriously, the ALT increase is the biggie, because only the liver contains ALT, so it is highly indicative of liver stress. AST is contained in almost every muscle (and I think organs as well), so just the fact that you were lifting weights will increase your AST (I know this from experience). Your ALT should come down though. I believe ALT is released as your liver is repairing, so if it is high, your liver is getting better. Alcoholics usually have much lower ALT levels than AST, which indicates that the liver is not attempting to repair itself anymore (i.e. permanent liver damage), indicating chronic liver problems (i.e. liver transplant). Good luck though, I'm sure you'll get better. You've definitely done your research, and I'm always encouraged to see that! Everyone, have a great Sunday!

 

[BURNT DICE]

So tell us. Do you plan on doing future cycles of PH's(steroids)?
Did this experience scare you off of PH's(steroids) or do you feel you learned from it and are going to try again at a later date?

I don't know yet, looking for some more experienced feedback posts. I don't know the significance of my results and i can't see into the future for my next blood test which I plan to take towards the end of PCT. Couple thoughts though:

1. A SERM seems to me to be an absolute MUST if you take these prohormones (or any steroid). I would never ever do a future cycle without one. In fact, I would probably have 2 on hand next time and maybe even some letro just in case.

2. I HAVE done my research. I read into this stuff for the better part of a year. I was a near perfect candidate from what I could tell. I'm smart, healthy, eat right, don't drink or do drugs, trained lots in advance and rush into nothing. Before I even contemplate taking anything else i am going to do more reseach and see how my recovery goes. I am also going to spend more time in these forums talking with the guys who have been there and done that.

3. As for prohormones, well I still have a full bottle of H-drol plus a bit. I am going to hang on to it for now. If/whenI recover perfectly I might consider it since liver values, so longs as they aren't completely trashed, recover fine I believe. Your liver is a very resilient organ after all. HOWEVER, I probably won't. To be frank I loved the feeling when I was on and other than the mitigatable diarrhea I had no other sides. It felt incredible and if possible I would live to experience that again. I believe that if everything goes well I probably will pin myself next time. I am currently researching a test cycle alone or maybe a primo/test E cycle. AGAIN, that will only be considered if I feel that I have recovered perfectly. I'm optimistic.

4. My cycle was 50/50/50 and a few days at 75 before I quit. Other than having a SERM, my biggest advice to those who are thinking of trying a prohormone is to err on the side of safety. Those numbers were a very conservative cycle on a "mild" compound. I see some guys doing like 6 weeks at like 75-100+. Based on my before and after results, that is overly reckless and for my own sake, no matter WHAT I take from now on, it will be very conservative til I see the bloods and know how I react to it.

DICE

 

[diablosho]

Sounds like you've got your head on straight, and I trust that whatever you do next will be the right decision. Good luck to ya for your future endeavours!

 

[BURNT DICE]

Guys,

I am going to close this thread shortly, but before I do I want to let you know what happened and thank you for your input. I took Easy and Swollen's advice and that night went into PCT with my first dose of Nolva. I got a message from someone privately who said it could be due to all the magnesium in the various supps I was taking and I thought at first that was probably right. However, after going into PCT, for the firsts few days I went without CA. Things started to slowly improve and I thought that was it bang on...but then, wanting to get back on CA for obvious reasons, I added it back in and things continued to get better. They were still off at first so I added soluable fibre (Metamucil) to help bind my crap and that helped. Once they started to get EVEN better I stopped taking it, but the craps STILL got better as time went on. After about 10-12 days into PCT my craps were back to normal and still are even though I am taking all the same stuff as on cycle basically...minus the H-drol.

My suspicion is that it was probably one of two things

1. What PLAYWITHFIRE said. I have always been "gassy" and am gluten sensitive which is autoimmune related and can manifest itself as stomach problems. My problems on the grand scheme of things is minor...but basically I fart more than most people I would say. I might check into this a bit with a doctor, but not major. Thanks PLAYSWIHFIRE.

2. I did read that diarrhea can be caused by hormonal shifts in the body. If you have an underactive pituitary or overactive thyroid it can cause Diarrhea. Obviously H-drol changes your hormonal systems.

At this point I am in my last week of PCT and finishing up. It sucks that I had to bail as I was getting good gains, but I don't regret it. I won't rule out going at what is left of my H-drol in a second attempt and this time with some soluable fibre to see if that is enough to make it tolerable for an extra 7-10 days to finish the cycle properly. HOWEVER, i am also thinking that maybe orals and me are not a great idea. I am thinking of pinning next time, if there is one. (although if it is hormoanl maybe it will happen again too). I suppose it could just be my own side of H-drol too. *SHRUG*

As a side note i think I am prob recovering based on strength, ball sac, libido, retained weight, etc...final bloods will tell the tale for sure though. I think I am going to wait a month after PCT to do my bloods though. Does anyone think I should NOT and do them right at the end in case that dictates how I might want to handle post PCT?

ABOVE ALL, I APPRECIATE YOU HELP WHEN I WAS IN NEED OF QUICK INFO!!!!

You guys rock!

DICE

 

[swollen87]

I would wait an extra couple of weeks to let your hormones normalize, you can't trust a blood test while your still taking drugs... see how well you recovered... and BTW, you made the right choice coming off early, injectable cycle next time!

 

[stankyleg]

I know hdrol is mild, but I and a couple other guys I know cant take it. I've tried 2 different brands. It kills my gall bladder and gives me the sh!ts. I think some just people cant take it.

 

[BURNT DICE]

I know hdrol is mild, but I and a couple other guys I know cant take it. I've tried 2 different brands. It kills my gall bladder and gives me the sh!ts. I think some just people cant take it.

Sh17s is what I got alright. It was nasty. Other than that tho I was generally doing great with the exception Have you found something else similar that worked WO the sh17 sides?

How do u know your gall bladder specifically was affected?

 

[stankyleg]

Sh17s is what I got alright. It was nasty. Other than that tho I was generally doing great with the exception Have you found something else similar that worked WO the sh17 sides?

How do u know your gall bladder specifically was affected?

I showed My Doc where the pain was and he said it was my gall bladder. I couldnt eat the foods that are known to irritate the Gall Bladder as well. I've taken M1t, Superdrol, Boladrol, Epi, TrenX, all with no problem with my gall bladder, Hdrol, a completely different story. I wish I could, but I cant

 

[BURNT DICE]

I showed My Doc where the pain was and he said it was my gall bladder. I couldnt eat the foods that are known to irritate the Gall Bladder as well. I've taken M1t, Superdrol, Boladrol, Epi, TrenX, all with no problem with my gall bladder, Hdrol, a completely different story. I wish I could, but I cant

Dam, that's crazy that SD and Tren, et all were fine but that it was Hdrol that you had trouble with. Anyway, thanks for the info!

DICE

 

[fightclub2012]

you know, you learn something every day. great log bro

 

[stankyleg]

Dam, that's crazy that SD and Tren, et all were fine but that it was Hdrol that you had trouble with. Anyway, thanks for the info!

DICE

My buddy was the same way. He could take anything, but hdrol

 

[fightclub2012]

BD you can give Epi a try, maybe,...

 

[stankyleg]

BD you can give Epi a try, maybe,...

Epi with a light androgen is nice

 

[stankyleg]

Some people have gall bladder issues from hdrol. Gall bladder problems can cause digestive problems. Sounds like ur gall bladder doesn't appreciate it. Take some Apple cider vinager. I did a home remedy gall bladder flush I found on Google. It knocked mine out quick.