Need some expert advice for my first cycle
- 07-13-2004, 05:36 AM
Need some expert advice for my first cycle
Im gonna be starting my first cycle in about 6 weeks and I'd like to hear some of your opinions. I'm 23 and have been lifting for about 5 years. I'm 5'7, 150lbs and was around 7% bf last time I measured. At peak, my max bench was 275. I'll be doing my cycle with 2 friends who are both experienced AS users. I've done alot of research on AS over the last year and I feel I'm ready to give it a try.
On advice from my bros, I'm gonna go with an 8-week sust/deca/dbol stack. Theyre are gonna go on for 12 weeks, but since it's my first time they feel I should stick with 8. For dosages, I'll be doing 500mg sust, 400mg deca, and 30mg dbol. Though I don't have the gear yet, I've learned the sust will be 250mg/ml and the deca 200mg/ml. For pct, I will use Clomid and Nolvadex. My first question is: do you think I should pyramid the dbol doses or just start at 30mg? In the past, I've heard it's ok to start at 30 but alot of people I know like to pryamid. Since I've never juiced, I would feel more comfortable starting with a low dose so I can see how my body reacts. At the same time, I don't want to shortchange myself by keeping doses too low.
I also want to make sure I keep as much of my gains as possible once I come off. That being said, do you think it's worth it to throw down the extra cash for some HCG? Everyone I've talked to says HCG is by far the best when it comes to pct and keeping gains. I would have no problem getting my hands on some, so if it's worth it I will definitly pay the extra loot.
Please let me know what you guys think. Although this is my first post, I've been reading this forum for a while now and alot of you seem very knowlegable when it comes to AAS. I'd appreciate any advice you have to give.
- 07-13-2004, 06:04 AM
I'm not a big sust fan personally, I think it's more for show than use. Anyway, being your first cycle, it wouldn't be necessary for all 3 compounds. However, even if you did use all 3, I'd do it like this for 12 weeks:
Sust 250mg / 2x ew
Deca 200mg / 2x ew
HCG 250-500iu / 2x ew
Dbol 30mg / 1x ed
After the 4th week, you won't have much use for dbol as it's effect will start to diminish. Your original plan was for 8 weeks; however, I believe that would be unwise due to the fact that it takes a while for Deca to start working.
HCG is definately a wise choice but it's generally taken during the cycle not afterwards as HCG is suppresive in itself. However, it will definately make PCT that much easier as your nuts will not have completely packed their bags and left. Nolva and Clomid are good for PCT.
One thing further, would it be possible for you to switch out the sust for test enanthate or cyp? I really do hate sust that bad.
07-13-2004, 06:34 AM
The thing is, we are getting some quality sust at a good price because one of my buddies is tight with the supplier. For some reason, the guy never has test e and I'd have to get it through my own sources. Because of this, I'd rather go through the reliable source so I don't take the chance of overpaying or getting fake ****.
As far as extending the cycle for 12 weeks, I'm taking it into consideration. If I only used dbol for the first 4 wks then I could definitly afford to buy more sust/deca to make the cycle a full 12.
I think I'm gonna use HCG because I really want to get the most out of this cycle. My question is can I include it in the same pin with my other ****?
Also, what would you suggest instead of using all 3 compounds? I would love to cut one out, especially the dbols, but I know my gains would be less overall. Any ideas?
07-13-2004, 06:57 AM
if I were going to cut one I would cut the deca but that is a personal opinion because of some bad reactions I have had with deca, ie it caused a bunch of bloat and acne for me. I would just start with 25-30 mg/day of dbol and not worry about the pyramid
07-13-2004, 07:05 AM
I see what you're saying, I just want to make sure I don't get bloated and I've been told deca will keep me ripped as hell while on cycle. I'm pretty lean and I never gain much fat so maybe I don't have to worry about the bloat. My buddy's face got real bloated at the end of his last cycle so that's why I'm concerned.
07-13-2004, 07:23 AM
07-13-2004, 09:35 AM
I really like Beelzebub advice here. 12 weeks is the min you want to run deca and sust. 14 would be even better. with both having deca esters your not going to get it kicking in til weeks 5 and 6.Originally Posted by Size Up
Also you might well get away with 10mg of dbol twice a day for weeks 1 to 5. This is your first cycle and at 150lb that should be fine for a starting point. its good stuff
I don't care much for sust ether, it really is newbie gear. However if you have a really good line on high quality human grade stuff then go with that. Surity is sometimes better in this game then other factors. But check with the mods and make sure that what you have is a good deal. I have had people quote me "speacial" pricing that was 3 times the going rate.
HCG is almost too cheap not to run. for a cycle like this one 5000iu vial is all you need. at 250iu twice a week you have ten weeks worth so just run it for the last ten weeks before your PCT. for 12 weeks you would start week 4 and end week 14, just the week before your PCT.
You can mix the hcg with your gear but it is much, much easier to use a 29g slin pin.
If you really need to cut something out here I would cut the dbols myself. I love dbol but being your first cycle I think you would gain pletty just off the test/deca, its tried and true. If your looking to cut cost here are a couple of tips.
1 cheak prices with the mods. they can tell you how bad your getting reamed.
2. Stick to the basics. exotic componds (sust, other test blends, rare exspensive gear) rarely do more then there cheaper conterparts. There is almost always a markup and for our needs no real differnce.
3. Stay with the high bang for the buck gear. Test is no 1. end of story. the rest in order by my personal prefrance, nothing imperical here, JMO, Dbol, Deca, fina, some of the other orals and EQ.
4. Get your suplements at wally world. I get everthing but the ALA there and save a quite a bit. most people don't realize just how much we spend on this stuff but try adding it up over the length of a cyle and your in the hundreds of dollars range. More then I spend on gear actually.
07-13-2004, 11:05 AM
thanks for the advice bro. I'm not gonna be starting for another 6 weeks so I have some time to think about my options. I guess what I need to decide is if I want to keep the dbols as part of my cycle. My boy's reasoning for keeping them is that the compounds work off of eachother, and by not taking the dbols, alot of muscle is being left on the table. Like you said, I'm sure I'd see good results from just the test and deca, but if adding the d's would make a huge difference then I should just suck it up and go all out.
As for the HCG, why is it easier to use a slin needle for the shots? Im curious because I figured it would be easiest to just put everything in one pin so I don't have to do multiple injections.
07-13-2004, 11:14 AM
You don't want to mix your HCG and your oil based injections.Originally Posted by Size Up
Dbol gives strength gains early on before your test kicks in, and packs on some pounds and fluid retention. The fluid retention isn't too bad for most people, I did not mind the tradeoff at all. It may not affect your final outcome in the cycle by a lot depending on how you react to it, but it will give you something right up front for earlier gains and helps with workout intensity and motivation.
07-13-2004, 11:23 AM
You've received good advices thus far. Without caring about repeating others , here's my response.
10-12 weeks is the way to go. Shorter cycles can be used for a stack involving shorter esters (ie i did a prop/tren/winny for 8 weeks). The first reply suggesting you shoot twice a week with the deca and test is fine. 1mL each or if you want to really cut back on the injections, shoot twice a week, 2mL each... both shots filled with 1:1 test-deca. Keep the dianbol dosage constant. No need to pyramid up or down. 30-35 would be good for you. Hit that up for the first 5 weeks of your cycle. So....
Sust (2 x week at 250mg) weeks 1-12
Deca (2 x week at 200mg) weeks 1-12
Dbol 30-35mg/day weeks 1-
HCG as suggested by Beelzebub suggested
07-13-2004, 01:41 PM
You say you bench 275, but howabout your squats and deads? (not being an ass, just curious). Nolva/clomid combination is my favorite PCT along with the HCG throughout (in theory, I've used it pure PCT only with great results as well). Keeping gains is more about EATING plenty during PCT. IMHO you should put more fat on (per week) during PCT than while on if anything, just to make sure you aren't in a caloric deficit when your test levels are low.
-Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
-Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
*I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
07-13-2004, 04:08 PM
The Dbols do make a differnce are are nice to have, but is still secondary to the other two you are using.Originally Posted by Size Up
The HCG is should be used in a slin dart for a couple of reasons. first is that it is much easier to messure. if you use 2ml to 5000iu you'll have 1/10 cc equal 250iu. even that is hard to messure on a regular case. Also it is nothing to use a slin pin.
07-13-2004, 04:20 PM
isn't a good idea to switch needles if u use a vial,but insulin syringes won't let u do that.any advice on this?Originally Posted by Skye
07-13-2004, 08:38 PM
yes it is for the large needles but I have never seen a diabetic do the needle changing biz. You can get them were you can I think but why bother?Originally Posted by LittleMonster
07-13-2004, 11:05 PM
07-13-2004, 11:34 PM
I don't do deads anymore. I have some scar tissue in my left wrist from a snowboarding accident and for some reason deads are the only thing that aggravate it.
My squats are pretty low, I've never gone for max but I do sets with 225 for 10 reps. My quads are actually decent size, it's my calves that are small as ****. No matter how hard I work them the ****ers wont grow.
07-14-2004, 12:34 AM
07-14-2004, 01:27 AM
Keep the dbol. The instant satisfaction is nice for a first time user. At your size, you do not need anything over 30mg of dbol.
07-14-2004, 03:58 AM
My bodys close to it's natural limit as far as weight goes. I take in 3000+ calories and 200g protein a day and thats just so I stay between 150-155. I burn off fat so fast its ridiculous. That being said, it's hard to make further stength gains with a lack of increasing mass. At this weight, my bodys not gonna let me max more than 275. I think the cycle I have planned will work out well for me.Originally Posted by Peal
07-14-2004, 05:22 AM
Either way, bump up your cals during the cycle. I'd say go 4000 calories and 300 grams of protein a day should do nicely. Dbol is always fun so I'd probably keep it too. Just sounds like a lot of stuff for a 1st cycle. Test, deca, and dbol. Should work great though.
07-14-2004, 07:12 AM
I'm not going to bother repeating most of the good advice here....just a quick opinion: I'd keep the dbol and drop the deca if you want to drop a compound, and you certainly won't need 3 the first time
07-14-2004, 08:19 AM
Definately increase your protein right now. This will get your body used to processing more, it won't do you any good to take anabolics if you are crapping all your building blocks into the toilet.
07-14-2004, 09:18 AM
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